The antarctic ice is increasing by .36 Million sq km a year on average since 1978 when they first started measurements. Maybe with more computing power we can simulate a more realistic global enviroment, up till now all the climate alarmists are basing a lot of their predictions on unconstrained models that have been historically wrong. Our climate is changing, and we are a part of that, the more we can do to understand it the better, the more we can do to keep from altering its course too much is the end goal. A poor person in a poor country dumping waste into the ocean and burning anything they can will not change for a well off person in a well off country and asking them not to improve their life is like asking them to accept death sooner.

The balance must come from stable long term investments like nuclear.

Not touching the broader eco discussion further, but it should certainly be possible to make these "datacenters" far less invasive than probably even a land based one would be. Chemically neutral building agents can be used for the environment in question, etc.

Just build them in the poles that is much colder than the Ocean and also much less dangerous for the environment.

R0H1TBut they are disrupting the ecology of that place, even if a little bit. I'd rather them use the power from solar panels on a satellite & irradiate whatever heat they're generating mostly outside our atmosphere. While this sounded like a fun experiment I'm not sure how practical it is longer term. Especially with oceans getting warmer every day. We're just accelerating this process arguably more quickly with something like it, the data for instance they're crunching/processing would need to travel longer distances & so is it really more (energy) efficient overall?

It's a complete waste of heat and lack of imagination, there are loads of stable processes crying out for heat and nothing other than harnessing such waste heat for further gain or recouping the energy or both should be starved(yeah , Strived, you can Eat your tea still) for, IMHO for server's.
They're getting (server farms) that power dense city's have businesses waiting years for the capacity to be available, if at all and due to locality the heat could be put to work IMHO.

Like CAR engine's the most efficient way to run even servers is at its optimal load not idle, IE near max 24/7 in reality or off.

It's like people heard of global warming and set about showing them bitches who thinks they know how to global warm.

That's right throw waste nuclear engines in the deap ocean, throw some servers near the shore we might get st Ann's or Blackpool upto med temperature. :p I jest, mostly :D.

TumbleGeorgeAll data here is old and partially incorrect. Must be updated.

I was literally just there yesterday, oogling over it.
After reading this news, I (figuratively) just-now managed to pick my jaw up off the floor before typing this. :laugh:

TheoneandonlyMrKMy word.

AMD drivers again? I have no issues and don't/have not seen the masses abnormally arrayed against AMD drivers, just the odd hyperbolic statement.

'muh drivers!' hyperbole is especially complex (and amusing).
I've had issues in the past w/ both brands' drivers but, (almost-always) a clean driver install fixed things. When it didn't, a rollback worked.
(Note: Navi24, Vega, and Kepler-Maxwell are my 'newest' GPUs)
Now, with Intel 'in the mix' and well-behind on Driver Development, it's kinda hilarious to see Green v. Red still going "'yer drivers suck" at eachother.

Tek-CheckYes, but you can't cheat physics. Imagine hundreds of those warming up local sea and disrupting flora and fauna.

Right: 'noticing things'. Wrong direction, IMHO.
Think: Heat Pumps. In thermal wattage, there's recoverable waste heat availible to attach other industries/processes (or recover power for back-ups).
-with less environmental-disruption, too. But, that used to be the corporate-equivalent to telling kids there's veggies in their dinner

SteevoThe antarctic ice is increasing by .36 Million sq km a year on average since 1978 when they first started measurements. Maybe with more computing power we can simulate a more realistic global enviroment, up till now all the climate alarmists are basing a lot of their predictions on unconstrained models that have been historically wrong. Our climate is changing, and we are a part of that, the more we can do to understand it the better, the more we can do to keep from altering its course too much is the end goal. A poor person in a poor country dumping waste into the ocean and burning anything they can will not change for a well off person in a well off country and asking them not to improve their life is like asking them to accept death sooner.

The balance must come from stable long term investments like nuclear.

Don't you know? 're supposed to be cancelled. /s :p

I disagree that 'currently available' Nuclear power is a panacea, or even a decent band-aid.
Thankfully, there's advanced, safe, and low/no-waste nuclear power solutions (on-paper, and 'shelved' both). There's also some good progress-on and proof-of-concepts-on various potentially-viable non-fission nuclear power generation technologies.

The issue(s) come(s) back to economic forces disinterested in employing/deploying and investing in those technologies.
Which, I do not believe TPU is an appropriate place to discuss (excepting, strictly-adhering to the technology-side)

kapone32Just build them in the poles that is much colder than the Ocean and also much less dangerous for the environment.

Big Brain idea: use Mars' poles.
Terraform Mars while having the most bitchin' "VERRRRY remote" rendering farms! Quick, someone tell Elon! :roll:

LabRat 891Big Brain idea: use Mars' poles.
Terraform Mars while having the most bitchin' "VERRRRY remote" rendering farms! Quick, someone tell Elon! :roll:

It is amazing to me how much people put trust into Robert Heinlein Sci fi novels. Of course he also wrote a book about living on Venus. Too bad most of his work was in the 50s before things like slingshot became a reality but Mars is not viable in the way that we are trying to do it.

kapone32It is amazing to me how much people put trust into Robert Heinlein Sci fi novels. Of course he also wrote a book about living on Venus. Too bad most of his work was in the 50s before things like slingshot became a reality but Mars is not viable in the way that we are trying to do it.

Even as 'a damn-cold rock'; there's (figuratively) no reason not to use it. Especially, in the potential-future of off-Earth mining.
Which, (some) nations are putting money and effort into, apparently:
www.arabnews.com/node/1952741
www.thenationalnews.com/uae/science/uae-looks-to-regulate-asteroid-mining-as-it-aims-to-lure-private-space-sector-1.943028
ssa.gov.sa/en/home/
www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2021-09-15/japan-space-resources-act-enacted/

Okay, sorry for the slide...
SPACE=COLD COLD=GOOD FOR COMPUTE
there, point made; and done.

on topic:
Was there mention of submersion or 'block and plumbing' liquid cooling? I am curious how datacenters are realistically going to react.
Does the increase in perf/watt warrant a 'shrink' in used rackspace? or, will cooling be expanded? I doubt this is an AMD-specific 'trend'

dgianstefaniMaybe by the time AMD has figured out drivers that can be installed on any of their consumer cards (see: several months gap between RDNA3 release and RDNA2 driver update, or, more recently exclusive driver for RX7600 only), they can start to figure out the software and partner support they need to succeed in datacentre GPUs.

By then NVIDIA will have built it's 1:1 virtual/real world model in the Omniverse, of which every major manufacturer has already signed onto, just as with CUDA dominance for the past decade.

From 15 months 3/22 ago this image.



www.nvidia.com/en-us/omniverse/ecosystem/ current ecosystem.

Where is AMD?


I hope so, a monopoly isn't a great situation, but the product needs to deliver. Zen did, but that was a hardware success not a software success. The software (AGESA) for Zen has been buggy in each iteration for years now, which they hope to fix eventually with opensource OpenSIL.

Not everyone has had issues with Agesa, just like not everyone has had success with nv hardware.

That power usage is actually remarkably good IMO given the level of performance, transistor count, memory etc. It massively more efficient than 7900XTX for example.

Semianalysis has a great write up of MI300 and how it compares to H100 and why it is critical for AMD that it succeeds.

MI300 Analysis

SteevoThe antarctic ice is increasing by .36 Million sq km a year on average since 1978 when they first started measurements. Maybe with more computing power we can simulate a more realistic global enviroment, up till now all the climate alarmists are basing a lot of their predictions on unconstrained models that have been historically wrong. Our climate is changing, and we are a part of that, the more we can do to understand it the better, the more we can do to keep from altering its course too much is the end goal. A poor person in a poor country dumping waste into the ocean and burning anything they can will not change for a well off person in a well off country and asking them not to improve their life is like asking them to accept death sooner.

The balance must come from stable long term investments like nuclear.

Yup it's all about nwo control to keep the stupid, stupid

dgianstefaniEntire GPU ecosystem is based around software, the hardware is just a checkbox.

NVIDIA is a software company.

Which is why a lot of AMD's demo and partners show was around software and implementation, with Pytorch and Huggingface.

ROCm is coming to windows eventually... Also Github refuses to acknowledge the hole I found... They authenticate documentation After loading.... so if you slowroll the page load with traffic shaping in your router....



The support tables show RDNA2 and newer support on windows for ROCm stuff, and linux only for instinct cards, which is frankly expected.
This is for ROCm 5.6, current released version is 5.5.1

Current OAM power limit is 800w, they might use more than 750w, they might use less. Technically the 250x can use 560w but the frontier supercomputer they are running them at 500w for peak scaling performance.

R0H1TBut they are disrupting the ecology of that place, even if a little bit. I'd rather them use the power from solar panels on a satellite & irradiate whatever heat they're generating mostly outside our atmosphere. While this sounded like a fun experiment I'm not sure how practical it is longer term. Especially with oceans getting warmer every day. We're just accelerating this process arguably more quickly with something like it, the data for instance they're crunching/processing would need to travel longer distances & so is it really more (energy) efficient overall?

Not really true. these things do more for less. Even 750W might sound "alot" it's cheaper to run it like this then a 4U casing with 4 cards consuming 350W each.

Just as AMD's Epyc. These are packing up to 192 threads (96 cores) into one chip, only consuming up to 350W. This might sound like alot but you can effectively replace half a rack worth of server hardware with that, and run things quite more efficient.

Don't you know? 're supposed to be cancelled. /s :p

Ya know,... I've been canceled by the Cancel Culture here in "Da Valley" a long long time Ago as I deal with the Stupid's at least on a bi weekly basis.
I would be a sad panda but every month I see those checks come rolling on in, (and of course let's not forget the quarterlies as well) I have a wide grin on my face.

And I smile Just like J.K. Rowling. :peace:

But as many have commented I fully believe that there are ways in keeping tech cool without being so evasive to the environment.

Not sure the point of an eco argument here.

We need hot water everywhere, many servers are joined to heating buildings or water around the world.

You rather waste energy only boiling water over 60C to kill the dreaded legionella or crunch data and kill it either way.

Heat is a resource humans need either way.

big and long off/
Hey, I see the topic has become very ecological. Apparently there was no problem burning gigawatts to "mine" crypto when we were the ones making money. I'm sure that maybe not exactly the discussants here, but there are colleagues in this forum who had whole "farms" of video cards, or had at least a few rigs. And now they are outraged by a device that can be used to do useful work for humanity, not just for the individual./end off

LabRat 891Think: Heat Pumps. In thermal wattage, there's recoverable waste heat availible to attach other industries/processes (or recover power for back-ups).
-with less environmental-disruption, too. But, that used to be the corporate-equivalent to telling kids there's veggies in their dinner

Sure. Waste heat would need to be dealt with by attaching to other peocesses, such as home/industrial heating.

LabRat 891Even as 'a damn-cold rock'; there's (figuratively) no reason not to use it. Especially, in the potential-future of off-Earth mining.
Which, (some) nations are putting money and effort into, apparently:
www.arabnews.com/node/1952741
www.thenationalnews.com/uae/science/uae-looks-to-regulate-asteroid-mining-as-it-aims-to-lure-private-space-sector-1.943028
ssa.gov.sa/en/home/
www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2021-09-15/japan-space-resources-act-enacted/

Okay, sorry for the slide...
SPACE=COLD COLD=GOOD FOR COMPUTE
there, point made; and done.

on topic:
Was there mention of submersion or 'block and plumbing' liquid cooling? I am curious how datacenters are realistically going to react.
Does the increase in perf/watt warrant a 'shrink' in used rackspace? or, will cooling be expanded? I doubt this is an AMD-specific 'trend'

Yep instead of putting it into Social programs so that some Groups are not excluded in the experiment that is the human experience. There is so much better that they could use those funds for. As much as Greed drives Mankind to think of the most extreme ways to make money Mining Asteroids is a pipe Dream. This is not Gundam, there is no Side 1 and as much as the Expanse tried to give the impression of real Physics it was still a Sci fi show.

SteevoThe antarctic ice is increasing by .36 Million sq km a year on average since 1978 when they first started measurements. Maybe with more computing power we can simulate a more realistic global enviroment, up till now all the climate alarmists are basing a lot of their predictions on unconstrained models that have been historically wrong. Our climate is changing, and we are a part of that, the more we can do to understand it the better, the more we can do to keep from altering its course too much is the end goal. A poor person in a poor country dumping waste into the ocean and burning anything they can will not change for a well off person in a well off country and asking them not to improve their life is like asking them to accept death sooner.

The balance must come from stable long term investments like nuclear.

cough BS cough

The summer Antartic sea is at it's lowest level ever recorded and the last 8 years have been record lows. Winter ice area fluctutates and did have a record year in 2014, but summer ice coverage is on a downward trend which exacerbates warming and reinforces sea ice melt. A one off small ice coverage summer is not cause for concern, but continued downward trends are very worrying. Apart from that you conveniently ignore the massive thinning of the huge ice-shelves such as in the Ross sea and the very real fact water temperatures under the Antarctic have increased several degrees in the last 50 years and is undercutting and melting the ice-shelves from below. This is due to excess energy being absorbed by the oceans.

I mean if you are going to trot out the tired and debunked climate denial BS at least try looking at the data yourself and coming up with a fresh argument.