Tuesday, November 14th 2023

Intel Confirms APO Feature Not Coming to 13th Gen and 12th Gen Core Processors

by
btarunr
 Discuss (75 Comments)
Intel Application Performance Optimization (APO) is a unique feature that sets 14th Gen Core "Raptor Lake Refresh" processors apart from 13th Gen "Raptor Lake," despite the two being practically the same microarchitecture. APO is software-based, application-specific processor optimization that is found to offer an up to 16% performance boost in "Metro Exodus," and an up to 13% boost in "Rainbow Six: Siege." These are the only two games that Intel has released APO optimizations for, and for now, APO is only supported on the Core i9-14900K and i9-14900KF. Hardware Unboxed learned that while the company might bring APO to more 14th Gen Core processor models in the near future; it won't make it to 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" and older 12th Gen Core "Alder Lake."

APO is an extension of Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology framework that provides a greater degree of handholding for the OS scheduler, to give a specific application the best possible allocation of hardware system resources. For Intel to release APO profiles to new games, it needs extensive testing and validation specific to processor models and the applications themselves, which is probably why the company is limiting APO to only its current 14th Gen processors, and only specific processor models within the lineup. You can catch the Hardware Unboxed presentation with their testing of APO on the two supported titles, and Intel's statement, in the source link below.
Source: Hardware Unboxed (YouTube)

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75 Comments on Intel Confirms APO Feature Not Coming to 13th Gen and 12th Gen Core Processors

#1
Hyderz
from what i've seen APO is great at 1080p but 1440 and 4k is still gpu bound..
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#2
wolf
Better Than Native
Quite disappointing if it is just a software feature with zero hardware dependencies that 14th gen only possesses. Time to kick up the backlash machine again methinks, publish backlash has had multiple tangible results in recent years, we can make a difference when we are heard.
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#5
PapaTaipei
So contrary to mobile phones, desktop CPUs are still not ready for this simple task of thread optimisation on different cores. Makes me wonder if it's also because of Microsoft.
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#6
phanbuey
I expected more from Pat.
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#7
A Computer Guy
It's like that meme where Intel only has two buttons they can push and they start sweating with indecision.
1) Enable APO on 14th, 13th and 12th gen and eviscerate 14th gen sales
or
2) Enable APO only on 14th gen and eviscerate 13th and 12th gen sales
Posted on Reply
#8
aktpu
A Computer GuyIt's like that meme where Intel only has two buttons they can push and they start sweating with indecision.
1) Enable APO on 14th, 13th and 12th gen and eviscerate 14th gen sales
or
2) Enable APO only on 14th gen and eviscerate 13th and 12th gen sales
12th and 13th gen still have sales? :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#9
Chaitanya
wolfQuite disappointing if it is just a software feature with zero hardware dependencies that 14th gen only possesses. Time to kick up the backlash machine again methinks, publish backlash has had multiple tangible results in recent years, we can make a difference when we are heard.
Its not even compatible with i5-14600 series of CPUs let alone those 12 and 12.5 gen gpus so even 12.501 gen oops 14th gen CPU customers arent getting full benifits.
Posted on Reply
#10
thestryker6
It leans on Thread Director so them not supporting 12th gen could potentially be a reasonable stance since they changed it for 13th gen. Not supporting 13th gen nor the 14600K/KF is just a bad move, and I agree completely with Steve from GN who said something along the lines of "had they called this a tech demo it would be a lot better".
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#11
Launcestonian
So glad I went with AM5 instead of this silly Intel overkill with extra software in order to run applications. Hybrid architecture needs more software to run apps.... what a joke! nearly negates the reason for hybrid architectures in the first place that were marketed as being more "efficient". :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#12
Hyderz
let's give intel a chance, since their gpu division is doing great work on the drivers etc for the arc gpus...
and this APO is gaming related, so lets see how much support it gets before its canned like their previous stuff..
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#13
aktpu
Launcestonianthis silly Intel overkill with extra software in order to run applications. Hybrid architecture needs more software to run apps
This is optimization, not a requirement
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#14
FoulOnWhite
Only the two most xpensive CPU's, gee i wonder why that is bub.......
Posted on Reply
#15
Pepamami
A Computer GuyIt's like that meme where Intel only has two buttons they can push and they start sweating with indecision.
1) Enable APO on 14th, 13th and 12th gen and eviscerate 14th gen sales
or
2) Enable APO only on 14th gen and eviscerate 13th and 12th gen sales
3) Enable APO only for 14th, and make AMD sales better in future by some of current old/12th/13th gen users.

PS. I just recalled why I moved to amd myself from 6660k: got sick from socket updates, good old times.
Posted on Reply
#16
londiste
Totally agree with Games Nexus that this should be called a tech demo but that falls more into marketing than anything. Technically, it looks surprisingly effective. From the looks of it the principle of APO is simple enough - everything but the games off to E-cores plus the inherent cache benefits - but I am sure this is a real hornets nest when whoever builds or configures this gets into details.
PapaTaipeiSo contrary to mobile phones, desktop CPUs are still not ready for this simple task of thread optimisation on different cores. Makes me wonder if it's also because of Microsoft.
What makes you say it is a simple task?
LauncestonianSo glad I went with AM5 instead of this silly Intel overkill with extra software in order to run applications. Hybrid architecture needs more software to run apps.... what a joke! nearly negates the reason for hybrid architectures in the first place that were marketed as being more "efficient". :laugh:
Make sure you do not buy 7950X3D or 7900X3D then, both of these suffer from quite similar issues. AMD also had/has the preferred core thing that has wound down a bit.
Either way, heterogenous CPUs are no longer coming on desktop, they are here and have been for a while. The degree by which the cores are different is not the critical part here. Everybody wins if Intel, AMD, Microsoft and whoever deals with this in Linux get together and cooperate properly in getting some sort of common enough working solution.
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#17
Chaitanya
While watching Gamersnexusreview they showed screenshot of MS store where the APO was rated 1.5 stars but when I checked the MS App store it seems like reviews have been scrubbed.
Posted on Reply
#18
Dragokar
ChaitanyaWhile watching Gamersnexusreview they showed screenshot of MS store where the APO was rated 1.5 stars but when I checked the MS App store it seems like reviews have been scrubbed.
Well, they can call them and get things done quickly ;)

I am fighting with Google over stupid stuff for 30 days now.........
Posted on Reply
#19
aktpu
ChaitanyaWhile watching Gamersnexusreview they showed screenshot of MS store where the APO was rated 1.5 stars but when I checked the MS App store it seems like reviews have been scrubbed.
My Store seems to think it has 1.0/5 rating
Posted on Reply
#20
sLowEnd
ChaitanyaWhile watching Gamersnexusreview they showed screenshot of MS store where the APO was rated 1.5 stars but when I checked the MS App store it seems like reviews have been scrubbed.
Still visible to me.






Top quality reviews too. No chance these are user error. /s
Posted on Reply
#21
AusWolf
LauncestonianSo glad I went with AM5 instead of this silly Intel overkill with extra software in order to run applications. Hybrid architecture needs more software to run apps.... what a joke! nearly negates the reason for hybrid architectures in the first place that were marketed as being more "efficient". :laugh:
The Thread Director makes your CPU behave correctly, and now APO makes the Thread Director behave correctly. Software relying on software for hardware to function. :D

And to think that I used to complain about having to install a chipset driver on AMD... those were the days! :ohwell:
Posted on Reply
#22
sLowEnd
AusWolfThe Thread Director makes your CPU behave correctly, and now APO makes the Thread Director behave correctly. Software relying on software for hardware to function. :D

And to think that I used to complain about having to install a chipset driver on AMD... those were the days! :ohwell:
ngl, I never noticed a difference in anything with AMD's Dual Core Optimizer installed or not
Posted on Reply
#23
thestryker6
AusWolfThe Thread Director makes your CPU behave correctly, and now APO makes the Thread Director behave correctly. Software relying on software for hardware to function. :D

And to think that I used to complain about having to install a chipset driver on AMD... those were the days! :ohwell:
I'm not sure that's really an accurate assessment of what APO is doing. It's optimizing where every thread is going to maximize the performance under very specific circumstances. I'd be surprised if AMD wouldn't also get better performance/efficiency (if the underlying hardware was in the CPUs as I'm pretty sure a pure software solution would have too much latency) if they had software dictating exactly where everything should be run for specific programs. For example if you look at the HUB video CPU usage you can clearly see APO is keeping more cores parked and loads on specific cores.
Posted on Reply
#24
AusWolf
thestryker6I'm not sure that's really an accurate assessment of what APO is doing. It's optimizing where every thread is going to maximize the performance under very specific circumstances.
Isn't that Tread Director?
thestryker6I'd be surprised if AMD wouldn't also get better performance/efficiency (if the underlying hardware was in the CPUs as I'm pretty sure a pure software solution would have too much latency) if they had software dictating exactly where everything should be run for specific programs. For example if you look at the HUB video CPU usage you can clearly see APO is keeping more cores parked and loads on specific cores.
It has been a thing since Ryzen 3000 and Intel 11th Gen. It's called "preferred cores", which works perfectly even under Windows 10 with no extra software installed.
Posted on Reply
#25
thestryker6
AusWolfIsn't that Tread Director?
Nope Thread Director by itself analyzes the threads, but it cannot place them that's the job of the scheduler. APO is seemingly bypassing the scheduler at least to some degree.
AusWolfIt has been a thing since Ryzen 3000 and Intel 11th Gen. It's called "preferred cores", which works perfectly even under Windows 10 with no extra software installed.
Preferred cores just identify to the OS the highest performing cores this does not guarantee Windows won't ping pong threads across the CPU which it certainly does (I'm not referring to the high power threads here). APO is clearly keeping this behavior in check better than the scheduler does by itself.
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