67ElcoUh...if I read the article in question correctly it is "Israeli" tax dollars as incentive.

Tax New Shekels, then. Not Intel's money either way.

Yes, Intel still has to pay for part of it. But the incentive is fairly considerable.

Why would any business flee California? :laugh:

RandallFlagg20A

"20A"≠"2"nm TSMC or I'm wrong? These trade names for lithographic nodes keep driving me crazy.

TumbleGeorge"20A"≠"2"nm TSMC or I'm wrong? These trade names for lithographic nodes keep driving me crazy.

N2 is TSMCs node name, I doubt it is 2nm as none of their other nodes follow that either. i.e. N5 is technically a 7nm class node.

My understanding is that, if you get rid of all the naming convention marketing, TSMC N3/N2, Intel 3, and Intel 20A are all actually 5nm class nodes. The big thing here is that Intel will have RibbonFET + backside power + high power node with 20A a year before TSMC has a high power node, and two years before TSMC has backside power delivery.

Intel has already demonstrated backside power delivery, all by itself, giving a 6% performance bump on Intel 4. They've also already shown wafers of Arrow Lake dies on 20A. So unless they fly off the rails somewhere, by the end of 2024 they'll have the most advanced node in the world once again - not TSMC.

67ElcoWhy would any business flee California? :laugh:

Unfortunately, California is a higher tax state, just like the states of the Northeast. Many businesses choose lower tax states for obvious reasons, these usually being the southern states. The truth is that these states are able to have lower taxes largely due to the fact that they are dependent on federal tax dollars which largely come from states like california and those in the Northeast....in other words, residents in california, New Jersey, Massachusettes, Connecticut are subsidizing the tax polices of southern states through the vector of the federal government and the only reason these southern states can have such business favorable tax policies is because the residents of other states are paying for all their infrastructure. Hypothetically speaking, if each state only received from the federal government what they contributed, it would be arguable that ALL the "business" would be in states like California as the states utterly dependent on federal money wouldn't have the funds to maintain their own roads, utilities, communications, etc and would regress economically even further. It's important to remember that as of 2023 While 11.7% of Americans live in California per the latest Census data, the state contributed 14.2% to U.S. GDP in Q1 of 2023. New York state, where 5.9% of Americans live, produced a share of 8.1% of the country's GDP most recently. Florida, on the other hand, only contributed 5.5% of GDP despite making up 6.7% of U.S. population. So while many people assume businesses are "fleeing" these states, these high tax states are STILL largely responsible for contributing more to the country's GDP per capita than states with tax policies more "Favorable" to business.

This also brings up the point that there is more than just allowing businesses to be tax leeches on the people that builds a successful economy, like a highly educated and well trained work force and these "high tax" states are also usually the most educated.

RayzCan smell the hate in that comment of yours from miles away.

And herein lies the problem with "modern audiences"; the automatic assumption of guilt.

AnarchoPrimitivUnfortunately, California is a higher tax state, just like the states of the Northeast. Many businesses choose lower tax states for obvious reasons, these usually being the southern states. The truth is that these states are able to have lower taxes largely due to the fact that they are dependent on federal tax dollars which largely come from states like california and those in the Northeast....in other words, residents in california, New Jersey, Massachusettes, Connecticut are subsidizing the tax polices of southern states through the vector of the federal government and the only reason these southern states can have such business favorable tax policies is because the residents of other states are paying for all their infrastructure. Hypothetically speaking, if each state only received from the federal government what they contributed, it would be arguable that ALL the "business" would be in states like California as the states utterly dependent on federal money wouldn't have the funds to maintain their own roads, utilities, communications, etc and would regress economically even further. It's important to remember that as of 2023 While 11.7% of Americans live in California per the latest Census data, the state contributed 14.2% to U.S. GDP in Q1 of 2023. New York state, where 5.9% of Americans live, produced a share of 8.1% of the country's GDP most recently. Florida, on the other hand, only contributed 5.5% of GDP despite making up 6.7% of U.S. population. So while many people assume businesses are "fleeing" these states, these high tax states are STILL largely responsible for contributing more to the country's GDP per capita than states with tax policies more "Favorable" to business.

This also brings up the point that there is more than just allowing businesses to be tax leeches on the people that builds a successful economy, like a highly educated and well trained work force and these "high tax" states are also usually the most educated.

Sarcasm went over head I suppose. There is so much to lol about here I have no beginning point... :laugh:

Hi,
Interesting choice it's been volatile for a long time
Intel have a crystal ballware app out :wtf:

My teacher (when I was a student at the University ) had worked in Intel Israel plant in order to get his PhD. He gave us many insider and technical information about how CPU has been designed and made, and even gave us some confidential information. According to him, that plant was the Intel's most important design fab at the time.(year 2008)
That is surely a good news for tech enthusiastics. I trust the world's best engineers are there, pushing the boundaries of atoms and quantum physics in order to get more computing power.

Ps. He also stressed that Intel only make investments on stable countries like Israel.. so I don't think any terrorist act won't change Intel's mind.

ThrashZoneHi,
Interesting choice it's been volatile for a long time
Intel have a crystal ballware app out :wtf:

Do you really need a crystal ball? Israel is stable as its ever been. Conflict. Hasn't really been different over the last decades, just a bit more quiet.

The instability in Israel comes from within, not from Gaza, and in that its not unlike many other Western countries right now.

Intel is free to invest whereever they wanna, i presume they will wait until the smoke have disappeared.

Isn't Germany's the largest investment at $30b?

Pretty disgraceful of Intel to invest such a sum in such a 'country' given events of the last er...65 years.

Shatun_BearPretty disgraceful of Intel to invest such a sum in such a 'country' given events of the last er...65 years.

What happened 65 years ago?

SteevoWhat happened 65 years ago?

You will likely receive a revised history lesson on the origins of Israel... ;)

67ElcoYou will likely receive a revised history lesson on the origins of Israel... ;)

The internet never fails to expound on crap in paragraphs given the invitation lmao.

ImoutoIsn't Germany's the largest investment at $30b?

It was. And it ensured political compliance. But now Germany is not a priority, the investment has been reduced and diverted.

RandallFlaggN2 is TSMCs node name, I doubt it is 2nm as none of their other nodes follow that either. i.e. N5 is technically a 7nm class node.

My understanding is that, if you get rid of all the naming convention marketing, TSMC N3/N2, Intel 3, and Intel 20A are all actually 5nm class nodes. The big thing here is that Intel will have RibbonFET + backside power + high power node with 20A a year before TSMC has a high power node, and two years before TSMC has backside power delivery.

Intel has already demonstrated backside power delivery, all by itself, giving a 6% performance bump on Intel 4. They've also already shown wafers of Arrow Lake dies on 20A. So unless they fly off the rails somewhere, by the end of 2024 they'll have the most advanced node in the world once again - not TSMC.

Intel has to demonstrate by actual products, not PowerPoints.

RandallFlagg"..according to some"

Intel is in position now to leapfrog TSMC at the 2nm node. Specifically, they should have 20A in 2024 with Arrow Lake, which will have backside power delivery from the get go.

TSMC won't have a high power N2 node with that until 2026.

spectrum.ieee.org/intel-20a

yes meteor lake is a horrible horrible product and extreme failure according to some here and some talking heads on YouTube.

i would love to see intel taking the lead again and Samsung putting some fire under tsmc ass too.
but things have been slipping

RayzCan smell the hate in that comment of yours from miles away.

I can smell the ignorance in yours. His comment isn't racist, it's about investing in a politically unstable region and more so in a county that has painted a massive bullseye on it's back via it's actions. intel was warning us about Taiwan being a risky place to put all our eggs in one basket, and now they are going to the Middle East. That's the laughably stupid policy IMO. This fab would be a perfect target for those that want to destroy Israel.

Minus InfinityI can smell the ignorance in yours. His comment isn't racist, it's about investing in a politically unstable region and more so in a county that has painted a massive bullseye on it's back via it's actions. intel was warning us about Taiwan being a risky place to put all our eggs in one basket, and now they are going to the Middle East. That's the laughably stupid policy IMO. This fab would be a perfect target for those that want to destroy Israel.

Yea, a highly volatile and political buffer zone is a great place to put fab in the quest to de-globalize our supply chain from global events. Brilliant!!!

mclaren85My teacher (when I was a student at the University ) had worked in Intel Israel plant in order to get his PhD. He gave us many insider and technical information about how CPU has been designed and made, and even gave us some confidential information. According to him, that plant was the Intel's most important design fab at the time.(year 2008)
That is surely a good news for tech enthusiastics. I trust the world's best engineers are there, pushing the boundaries of atoms and quantum physics in order to get more computing power.

Ps. He also stressed that Intel only make investments on stable countries like Israel.. so I don't think any terrorist act won't change Intel's mind.

Pentium M came out Israel. Intel was trying to push P4 Netburst. Pentium M was relegated to laptops at the time. Later, when Netburst / P4 failed, Pentium M morphed and the Israel team stepped up.

Merom (core/core-2), Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge - all products of Intel Israel.

So in a very real sense, Intel's Israel branch saved Intel at least once, maybe twice.

What’s most important about this news is the huge effort Intel is putting into the fab side of its business.

We need more cutting edge fabs and since the whole world is constantly undergoing de and re stabilization who cares where they go.

kondaminyes meteor lake is a horrible horrible product and extreme failure according to some here and some talking heads on YouTube.

i would love to see intel taking the lead again and Samsung putting some fire under tsmc ass too.
but things have been slipping

Lol nice troll attempt. Doesn't matter. We'll see in a year.

RandallFlaggLol nice troll attempt. Doesn't matter. We'll see in a year.

sure I’m the one trolling, not the guy that somehow manages to get 170k subscribers