Dr. DroNah, this one is literally on the holdouts' check. The sole reason they turned Windows into a rolling release OS is to shorten the useful lifespan of each release so that these same people wouldn't expect 15-20 year old operating systems to be supported. Which is foolish because now they're clinging onto LTSC releases instead, and will continue to demand software developers to support these. The stroke of genius here is that technically, no consumer using an Enterprise IoT LTSC cut of WIndows is using a legal copy, because it's not made available to end users, so software and driver developers have no obligation to provide long-term support for these systems.

I get it that love is no fun with protection, but the kind of Trojan you'll be seeing isn't the one that comes in a pack when you're running an unpatched, 15+ year old OS, and this has very real implications on the health of the internet and the network at large, this willful negligence costs billions to businesses annually.

Nah this literally isnt on the holdout's check. MS just had to move on. That's all they had to do. Turning Windows into a constantly updating nightmare that bugs you that your CPU is 5 years old and its time for an upgrade was more work then just ignoring the holdouts.

This is MS trying to make more money off of your back., plain and simple. Multi trillion dollar megacorps do not get the benefit of the doubt.

Dr. DroJust came across this, it's even worse than I thought :eek:

www.xda-developers.com/connected-windows-xp-internet-didnt-survive-long/

Take an unsecured OS with no firewall and directly connect it to the internet with no router. GEE I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED.

That's not an XP issue, that's an intelligence issue. ANY OS put in this situation would be PWNED within half an hour. Firewalls exist for a reason.

Dr. DroNot to mention LTSC has NEVER guaranteed forwards compatibility with new hardware.



You all brought this upon yourselves for being luddites, if the industry hadn't forced people's hands they'd still be using Windows XP today. Just look at the Windows 7 holdouts, clinically afraid of change.

Since Windows is now designed to be kept current at any cost, you also get no say about all of its undesirables unless you stop using it altogether. And it's all your fault for claiming to be proud to run a 15 year old unpatched copy of Windows 7 with Windows Update stripped out of it.

But those leaving Windows aren't getting Linux PC's. They're buying Macs. The rest is unwilling to learn anything else and just accept their fate.

Your use of what's generally considered an insult (against progress, for their own "selfish" interest) betrays a deep lack of understanding of the problem. Or computers. "Not supported" doesn't mean "not working". Those who know enough or care to install an old unsupported OS on their brand new new HW probably will handle googling for a tutorial on how to patch together an unsupported but working driver setup. And it's probably what's going to happen, just like with W11 on older HW.

You don't need to be anti updates to reject Windows 11. Plenty of people (myself included, always on supported setups) don't want Windows 11 because it pushes some boundaries into the unacceptable. The constant barrage of ads everywhere in the OS, or the shoving of BS AI into everything as a way to siphon yet more data from the users makes it close to impossible for me to justify using it. I may eventually have to boot it up for some sort of work that requires it but it will be treated as an "internet cafe" machine.

I think I understand why you see no problem with it. Plenty of other people would open any door for a few trinkets. Nothing is unacceptable for them because they have no lower bound for what they will accept. These people are actually the ones who brought this upon everyone else. Companies saw that they'll make a killing even if they target just this critical mass of people who will literally not even notice this enshittification as long as they get their shiny thing. Everyone else is just along for the ride. How do you think we got to a place where surveillance and loss of privacy are so pervasive and only getting worse? Luddites? Or the people who just swallow what they're given?

For the people who want to have a "say about all of its undesirables" Windows is becoming less and less of an option. Still having the HW manufacturer at least support older OS would have been nice. Can't tell yet if this is AMD cutting some development effort and costs, or having to go along with MS because MS has this king of power over HW manufacturers, or both.

closeYour use of what's generally considered an insult (against progress, for their own "selfish" interest) betrays a deep lack of understanding of the problem. Or computers. "Not supported" doesn't mean "not working". Those who know enough or care to install an old unsupported OS on their brand new new HW probably will handle googling for a tutorial on how to patch together an unsupported but working driver setup. And it's probably what's going to happen, just like with W11 on older HW.

You don't need to be anti updates to reject Windows 11. Plenty of people (myself included, always on supported setups) don't want Windows 11 because it pushes some boundaries into the unacceptable. The constant barrage of ads everywhere in the OS, or the shoving of BS AI into everything as a way to siphon yet more data from the users makes it close to impossible for me to justify using it. I may eventually have to boot it up for some sort of work that requires it but it will be treated as an "internet cafe" machine.

I think I understand why you see no problem with it. Plenty of other people would open any door for a few trinkets. Nothing is unacceptable for them because they have no lower bound for what they will accept. These people are actually the ones who brought this upon everyone else. Companies saw that they'll make a killing even if they target just this critical mass of people who will literally not even notice this enshittification as long as they get their shiny thing. Everyone else is just along for the ride. How do you think we got to a place where surveillance and loss of privacy are so pervasive and only getting worse? Luddites? Or the people who just swallow what they're given?

For the people who want to have a "say about all of its undesirables" Windows is becoming less and less of an option. Still having the HW manufacturer at least support older OS would have been nice. Can't tell yet if this is AMD cutting some development effort and costs, or having to go along with MS because MS has this king of power over HW manufacturers, or both.

You misunderstand my position, but you also seem to deflect my critique.

Due to changes in the driver model and use of newer kernel functions that are not present in earlier versions of Windows, there are no workarounds. Literally none! Even if you're insane enough to write a kernel extender for Windows 10, the other changes in WDDM will prevent functional graphics drivers from ever existing for newer hardware. It took over a year for the community to figure out some ancient driver branch that supported the 3090 Ti to get it to run on Windows 8, Ada is still a total no-go and it'll stay that way. AMD? No man's land even on supported configurations.

I'll maintain that people's resentment towards Microsoft and their refusal to keep a healthy Windows environment has caused them to take these drastic actions. Windows releases have had their life expectancy dragged out to absolute extremes because people resent change, compound that with their responsibility towards internet security being the largest vendor of a commercial OS, and thus the subject of the widest attack surface, it's no wonder they took the hostile approach of jamming it all down everyone's throats. In fact i'll go a step beyond, with all the ideological charge, reckless computing practices by Windows users that are fueled by FUD, BS and "street wisdom", as well as rampant piracy and people actually creating and distributing those ridiculous modified "lite" images, I'm surprised Microsoft did not crack the whip earlier.

We power users are but a mere side casualty. The truth is that modern software developers hate the fact that an OS is a tool and once it's achieved its usability peak, there's little need for them to be in the picture. So alongside this push to keep people's computers up to date, even if against their will, they're also imposing the undesirable new features to justify it all. It's all a means to an end, creating a problem that did not exist to sell you the solution.

And i'll stand by that.

mrnagantSeems kind of strange because we will have ESU, we got LTSC and LTSB, Windows Server 2016 build is the same major build as Windows 10 1607, and Server 2019 is the same major build as Windows 10 1809. Just thinking of the business side of things it doesn't make that much sense.

Maybe MS has some kind of weirdness happening where they don't want to update the kernel for Win10 Home/Pro maybe?

They just want people to move on to 11.

They did the same with 8.1, they contacted hardware vendors, and over night multiple web sites, motherboard vendors, intel, all pulled drivers on the exact same day, and then Microsoft released a tool blocking windows update on coffee lake claiming its unsupported even though the software contract had no such restrictions.

It will be same on Z890 I assume (and its budget chipsets).

Nvidia I think will hold out much longer as they dont seem to be in on the same wavelength as Microsoft. Instead they seem to just look at the user base statistics.

I was looking at the history of Windows only yesterday and crazy how packed the old schedule used to be and Win ME was only planned for a years usage, absolutely mental. Long life OS's are definitely better, stability in UI etc. important, Windows 10 proved you can keep a stable UI and major features whilst implementing new technologies. Feels like they have gone backwards with moving back to rapid windows releases.

Also 11 apparently has blacklisted startisback, explorerpatcher etc.

AMD 9000 will either lose sales because of this or someone will upload a working driver package somewhere as was the case with coffee lake..

chrcolukAMD 9000 will either lose sales because of this or someone will upload a working driver package somewhere as was the case with coffee lake..

Since drivers for Windows 10 are readily available, you'll probably be able to get it working with a X670E motherboard.

My understanding is that the graphics portion should remain the same RDNA 3-based 1 WGP "sampler" from Raphael, so that will probably work. XDNA NPU will likely be non-functional as drivers will likely never be written for Windows 10, but since AMD doesn't have hybrid architecture cores, even when fully unsupported, the CPU portion should work and schedule correctly - as long as you're not using R9 X3D parts that rely on the custom scheduler driver to function due to mismatched cache sizes. Although, an eventual single-CCD "R7 9800X3D" should be fully functional sans NPU this way.

However, forget about socket AM6 or any future chipset socket AM5 being functional. You likely won't get the drivers for it.

Yeah I came to same conclusion, if its same underlying tech, then just edit the .inf and it can work.

Dr. DroYou misunderstand my position, but you also seem to deflect my critique.

Due to changes in the driver model and use of newer kernel functions that are not present in earlier versions of Windows, there are no workarounds. Literally none! Even if you're insane enough to write a kernel extender for Windows 10, the other changes in WDDM will prevent functional graphics drivers from ever existing for newer hardware. It took over a year for the community to figure out some ancient driver branch that supported the 3090 Ti to get it to run on Windows 8, Ada is still a total no-go and it'll stay that way. AMD? No man's land even on supported configurations.

I'll maintain that people's resentment towards Microsoft and their refusal to keep a healthy Windows environment has caused them to take these drastic actions. Windows releases have had their life expectancy dragged out to absolute extremes because people resent change, compound that with their responsibility towards internet security being the largest vendor of a commercial OS, and thus the subject of the widest attack surface, it's no wonder they took the hostile approach of jamming it all down everyone's throats. In fact i'll go a step beyond, with all the ideological charge, reckless computing practices by Windows users that are fueled by FUD, BS and "street wisdom", as well as rampant piracy and people actually creating and distributing those ridiculous modified "lite" images, I'm surprised Microsoft did not crack the whip earlier.

We power users are but a mere side casualty. The truth is that modern software developers hate the fact that an OS is a tool and once it's achieved its usability peak, there's little need for them to be in the picture. So alongside this push to keep people's computers up to date, even if against their will, they're also imposing the undesirable new features to justify it all. It's all a means to an end, creating a problem that did not exist to sell you the solution.

And i'll stand by that.

Don't assume that if I contradicting you it must be that I just don't understand what you said. I understood your critique perfectly well and just didn't agree with it.

You believe the cause for MS taking "drastic action" is "luddites" not wanting to progress and sticking to the old stuff. That's where I don't agree for a multitude of reasons.

MS implemented the forced updates/reboot in Win10 because many users simply didn't know or care about them. These people weren't luddites, they were mostly people with no computer education. Some others were against reboots. Some probably against the principle of MS installing and possibly breaking their crap. Do you know what happened the first moment these were enforced? People who didn't know this was an issue (ignorant, not luddite) started getting updates (hooray). People who were "against progress" found ways to still disable them. The internet it rife with scripts to "take back control of your PC" even though this makes the installation unsupported. So fixing luddites was the one place the strategy to fix luddites failed. Strike 1 for your luddite theory.

Then MS raised the bar for the HW requirements to install Win11. Again the internet is rife with solutions to get Win11 running regardless, as yet another proof that something being unsupported will not actually be a blocker for people who really want it. So called "luddites" probably really want to stay with the old stuff. Strike 2 for the luddite theory.

MS makes money from pushing the next thing to you. Win7 simply didn't have what it takes to collect all the telemetry and show you all the start menu ads. Win10 did. Now where Win10 was limited, Win11 brings that to the next level. Not wanting that and preferring to stay with the "older but at least not a gaping hole of privacy and shitty UX" isn't being a luddite more than rejecting MS's "drastic measure" of resetting all your defaults is. Because you are a luddite if you don't accept those MS imposed defaults aren't you? MS has a responsibility to you and gave you Edge and the drastic measure of periodically forcing it on you, as default, or for some types of links where you didn't even get the choice. Because you're too much of a luddite to recognize progress. Strike 3 for your luddite theory.

As for the MS responsibility towards internet security, you gotta be kidding me. The company who got majorly hacked 6+ times over the past couple of years alone, who screwed their corporate customers royally repeatedly and was completely opaque about it every time, that company has a responsibility to make sure I don't run an OS that's technically still supported until October 2025 on a CPU that gets launched probably 6 months before that?

The reason people want to stick with the old is because that's less crappy than the new. Because they don't want more start menu ads, candy crush saga auto installed, more telemetry, more BS AI collecting everything they do, more constant push for MS products and reset of defaults that no longer have workarounds, or AI and Windows Recall enabled by defauilt to take screenshots every 3 seconds of everything you do which will pinky swear never be shared with anyone except every person who uses your PC with your user (like family) and MS when by accident they collect all the info, and the world when they fail again in the responsibility to "protect the internet", and so on.

You don't get it because maybe you are used to being a product. Or you simply can't conceive that your preferences aren't shared by everyone just like you assume that not agreeing with you means people must have misunderstood. Because it's so obvious that you're right, and your preferences are the gold standard. And when enough people are used to being the product and MS can make money hand over fist selling you shinies, then the rest of the population doesn't matter. It's as simple as that. Target your biggest, richest, and most gullible segment and the rest will reluctantly have to follow but if not you still make a killing.

And it's fine if you're fine with it for yourself. Assuming there must be something wrong with people who aren't fine with it for themselves isn't.

To be clear, I'm not convinced MS necessarily pushed for this as much as AMD wanted to cut some development and support costs and focus on all new AI/NPU stuff in new OSes only. It's the first time in a long time the CPU changed a lot with the addition of NPUs so who knows what kind of effort AMD is looking at there. MS probably just greased the wheels.