john_Sales and the fact that AMD chose to retreat from the hi end, proves that a yesterday's good RT performance was not enough for those who where willing to pay over $800 for a graphics card. Also it gave Nvidia the opportunity to use Path Tracing as a technology demo where Nvidia cards where looking like 2 generations ahead compared to even an RX 7900XTX.


Nvidia dictates the market. I seems that some people will never understand this. If AMD comes out with an RX 8800XT at $500 with performance close to an RTX 4080, they must be absolutely certain that firstly they will make a profit, secondly that Nvidia can't respond. If Nvidia is able to respond (and logic says they can, because everything favors them), then we will just see the RTX 5070 at $550 offering probably less VRAM, somewhat less raster performance and probably the same RT performance outselling the RX 8800XT 10 to 1. We have seen it multiple times in the past. Excuses of DLSS, better RT, better features, drivers and whatever it was said and written against AMD the last 15 years will be used to promote the Nvidia model over the AMD model. Seen also how Intel is losing money after pricing their GPUs too agreesively, only to go down to 0% market share, I don't expect AMD to be too aggressive with their pricing. They probably can't sustain a huge success in the gaming GPU market either, considering they are using most of their wafer capacity for EPYC, Instinc and probably mobile Ryzen chips.
I am expecting RX 8800 at $600 and RTX 5070 at $700. Where AMD might try to make a difference, is the sub $350 market because Nvidia doesn't seems to have any real interest for that market.

#nevernvidia

freeagentYou had me at 4080 performance.

Hopefully its priced right, this could be my first AMD card since the 4890.

Not really concerned about the power, but the ability to run F@H on it with good production would be nice too.

You missed out with the 290/X

wolfIt's faster overall in the TPU review because of the AMD sponsored "RT Lite" titles (read, RT not worth enabling) - and even then, by such an insignificant amount it made virtually zero sense to upgrade from a 3080 to the 7900XT - that would be been almost entirely a waste of money for the way I play my PC games - bearing in mind I already owned the 3080 for about 2 years at that point.



3080 is at 89% at 1080p and 1440p respectively overall.

But here lets see games where RT is far more impactful, all of a sudden it's not an upgrade at all, in fact it's slower at RT.




If you've seen me around the forums you know that I get a lot of enjoyment from games from the immersion they give, and I happen to find lighting to be a very compelling improvement in a lot of games where RT is well executed. If I'm going to pay $500++ USD for a video card, you bet I want it to be a feature rich, envelope pushing option.

People can proclaim it's a mindshare issue and that it's sad as much as they want (and it may well be for others), but I have zero allegiance to Nvidia, they just happen to currently make the most compelling products for my use case. If and When AMD can do that (again, noting I have and continue to own AMD video cards), they'll always be considered when I want to upgrade.

AMD's worst enemy has been themselves, in products, marketing and PR - but I am confident and hopeful they're at least trying to turn that around, re: the focus of this news topic and FSR4 going ML.

I will gladly part with my hard earned when AMD make a product that suits my use case, mindshare, tech press coverage (opinion) has essentially nothing to do with it, I look at the numbers, features etc and make up my own mind.

I certainly don't expect anyone else to buy a video card for the reasons I do, and I find it equally daft anyone would expect the inverse, or claim to know why I make the choices I make without asking me first.

You see that is what you are missing. I do not use RT so it matters little to me. You saying that AMD only have themselves to blame for the failure when it is proven that mindshare is at work. If you actually used a 7900 GPU you would know that it is much faster than the 6800XT. The funny thing is that card was not seen as a bad card by the narrative and it is 35% slower than the 7900XT.

AMD should launch graphics cards with user-swappable GPUs, just like motherboards. This would give it a much larger sales revenue and market share. If AMD doesn't change its approach in the GPU market, it will always be smashed by Nvidia.

NhonhoAMD should launch graphics cards with user-swappable GPUs, just like motherboards. This would give it a much larger sales revenue and market share. If AMD doesn't change its approach in the GPU market, it will always be smashed by Nvidia.

Underhanded tactics to undermine any other company to compete as usual

NhonhoAMD should launch graphics cards with user-swappable GPUs, just like motherboards. This would give it a much larger sales revenue and market share. If AMD doesn't change its approach in the GPU market, it will always be smashed by Nvidia.

It's not feasible for many reasons. On the technical side, it's difficult to achieve to the very low latencies required between GPU core and memory, the fact that you'd need to build the core to handle whatever type and generation of memory the board would have installed, and that they'd have no direct feedback if the board where the core is installed is even adequate for its needs.

On the economic side... let's just say it's not in their best interest to have easily user-upgradable GPUs, especially when the crowd is as tough as it is.

kapone32You see that is what you are missing. I do not use RT so it matters little to me.

Maybe, but if that's the case then you missed that it matters to me, and marketing or mindshare has nothing to do with it. You'll find I typically speak of my own preferences and don't speak for what I feel others should want or do.

kapone32You saying that AMD only have themselves to blame for the failure when it is proven that mindshare is at work.

I'm interested in this proof you speak of, because again, I find it has nothing to do with it for myself. Can other people less invested be swayed? maybe, but that's their own fault. I don't need top hear anyone else's opinion on what I should buy to objectively choose what I want. I see that AMD have correctly realised that they need to be more competitive in key areas that gamers want and expect before they part with their money, they're seen as the more budget and feature lacking option because they are. Those features don't matter to you? great! their products must seem very appealing. AMD are the ones that can build and control their mindshare, and so they're putting in the work.

kapone32If you actually used a 7900 GPU you would know that it is much faster than the 6800XT.

I bet it is much faster than a 6800XT which I don't own, I can only compare it to the 3080 which I do own, and it represented a poor value upgrade for me and what I want from a video card. It would appear my points there were perhaps ignored.

This feels like a pointless bickering circle that won't lead us anywhere, we've both said our piece, so perhaps agreeing to disagree is the better option here.

You know what the insanity is about the narrative when it comes to AMD GPUs? While Radeon DGPUs are always the source of lies e.g. drivers, RT performance, Raster performance (as a negative),7900 can't do 4K high and then everyone in the narrative loves their APUs. The funny thing is they are the exact same cores. Then the 4090 argument from the narrative has led to this.

www.newegg.ca/gigabyte-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-24gb-gddr6x/p/N82E16814932550?Item=N82E16814932550

Lowest price 4090 on Newegg $2899 the most expensive is $5899

Lowest priced 7900XTX on Newegg $1406 the most expensive is $2499




www.newegg.ca/asrock-creator-rx7900xtx-ct-24g-amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-24gb-gddr6/p/N82E16814930127?Item=9SIADGEKCK2654

Then look at the Lowest priced 7900XT on Newegg $869

www.newegg.ca/asrock-phantom-gaming-rx7900xt-pg-20go-amd-radeon-rx-7900-xt-20gb-gddr6/p/N82E16814930083?Item=N82E16814930083

Given the charts that have been posted there was a time when you would have been called daft for spending double for even 20% more performance. I guess RT is worth double though so that people can say I got a 4060 for the same price as a 7700XT and can't wait for the 5060 so I can get improved RT. Then the 7700XT user would be sated by the performance improvements through Driver updates from AMD in that same time frame. I remember when 20% represented a $100 difference in GPUs. Wait who used mindshare to jack up GPUs/ Who told TSMC to charge more? Who has killed the GPU industry in America leaving ATI only because it was Canadian and the Govt did not allow them to buy them? Not even killing EVGA to expand their founders market did nothing. Now we are getting some serious Gravity in the World with AI being the next big thing and Nvidia are actively going against one side with their continued sales. I know that they are not the only one but they are the only one openly defying the Govt. Of course none of this makes a dent because Nvidia is so good at RT and DLSS that AMD just sucks and is not worth money. Until you go on Newegg.com top 10 and see the 7900XT in 3rd place and that particular 7900XT I posted is sold out.

Getting back to this thread if they can release a DGPU that is as fast as the 7900XT for the price of the 7800XT it will sell. People on 7900 are sated enough to wait for when AMD releases that 32GB monster Enterprise GPU to the masses with years of Open support software written to take advantage of the raw numbers. Just like how for 3 months at the launch of the 7900 AMD spent 3 months refining the performance. It was funny watching the hypocrisy of AMD has abandoned everyone else when Nvidia says this version of DLSS does not work with your $2000 GPU it is just fine and you should be happy to spend another $2000 for that feature because the less than 1% of all Games is more important than the foundation of all Games which is raster. Now people will argue about DLSS looking better than native. When DLSS is there because the card can't run native at high frame rates.

Dr. DroYou see, 4080 performance is nice and all, but the 4080 came out in 2022 and it's the second tier chip. If an equivalent to a 3 year old second tier chip that's all they can deliver by 2025, doesn't take a genius to figure out why it's not impressive anymore. And there's the ecosystem gap to close.

500 is... about what this level of performance coupled with AMD's software is worth. At 500 they won't repeat Polaris, but it will be a reasonable level of performance for an attractive price, at least from our current perspective. It's just not impressive for someone like me, who's had a 4080 for that long.

Actually, 4080 performance for $500 would be amazing. However, given its purported specifications, it is far more likely to be a $549 7900XT equivalent.

wolfMaybe, but if that's the case then you missed that it matters to me, and marketing or mindshare has nothing to do with it. You'll find I typically speak of my own preferences and don't speak for what I feel others should want or do.

I'm interested in this proof you speak of, because again, I find it has nothing to do with it. I don't need top hear anyone else's opinion on what I should buy to objectively choose what I want. I see that AMD have correctly realised that they need to be more competitive in key areas that gamers want and expect before they part with their money, they're seen as the more budget and feature lacking option because they are. Those features don't matter to you? great! their products must seem very appealing.

I bet it is much faster than a 6800XT which I don't own, I can only compare it to the 3080 which I do own, and it represented a poor value upgrade for me and what I want from a video card. It would appear my points there were perhaps ignored.

This feels like a pointless bickering circle that won't lead us anywhere, we've both said our piece, so perhaps agreeing to disagree is the better option here.

This is an AMD thread about an upcoming GPU. You posted that RT is the reason you like your 3080. I am an AMD user and don't use RT. It is faster than the 3080 too.

If you want to talk about features lacking take a look at the AMD software GUI and then look at what Nvidia are working on.

www.newegg.ca/p/1FT-000M-003S5

That is $1299, they had a refurb for $1199. That is $400 more than the 7900XT a card that is faster than it and has double the VRAM but they gave you 10GB on the same 320 bit bus. I guess you did not enjoy Hogwart's and that is not your fault.

kapone32This is an AMD thread about an upcoming GPU. You posted that RT is the reason you like your 3080. I am an AMD user and don't use RT. It is faster than the 3080 too.

If you want to talk about features lacking take a look at the AMD software GUI and then look at what Nvidia are working on.

www.newegg.ca/p/1FT-000M-003S5

That is $1299, they had a refurb for $1199. That is $400 more than the 7900XT a card that is faster than it and has double the VRAM but they gave you 10GB on the same 320 bit bus. I guess you did not enjoy Hogwart's and that is not your fault.

I feel like the goalposts keep changing here.... or you're completely off on your own tangent.

AMD themselves have come to the realisation that they need to vastly improve RT performance, and to attract buyers, perhaps such as myself, I wholeheartedly agree. NOT you - understood.

I'm not here to talk about the software GUI which I know some users love to, it plays exceptionally little bearing on my purchase decision as I use them so rarely, believe it or not I mostly buy the hardware to enjoy the games themselves. If AMD appeals more to you because of Adrenalin, power to you!

Why are you quoting prices on buying a 3080 today, my guy, I've owned it since launch in September 2020, and I paid MSRP back then, a comparison against what one might be going for today from a site you cherry picked, bears absolutely no relevance here - and fwiw I agree that anyone would be silly to buy one at that price today vs a 7900XT - that was not the decision I have been faced with. You brought up the 7900XT being faster at RT (which is at best a half truth).

IF (yes IF, and I know this isn't for you specifically) you were choosing a new video card today, and IF RT performance was a reasonable factor, dollar for dollar you get higher RT performance from a current gen Nvidia card. AMD are evidently seeking to address that because they see the value in it making their products more desirable.

wolfI feel like the goalposts keep changing here.... or you're completely off on your own tangent.

AMD themselves have come to the realisation that they need to vastly improve RT performance, and to attract buyers, perhaps such as myself, I wholeheartedly agree.

I'm not here to talk about the software GUI which I know some users love to, it plays exceptionally little bearing on my purchase decision as I use them so rarely, believe it or not I mostly buy the hardware to enjoy the games themselves. If AMD appeals more to you because of Adrenalin, power to you!

Why are you quoting prices on buying a 3080 today, my guy, I've owned it since launch in September 2020, and I paid MSRP back then, a comparison against what one might be going for today from a site you cherry picked, bears absolutely no relevance here - and fwiw I agree that anyone would be silly to buy one at that price today vs a 7900XT - that was not the decision I have been faced with. You brought up the 7900XT being faster at RT (which is at best a half truth).

IF (yes IF, and I know this isn't for you specifically) you were choosing a new video card today, and IF RT performance was a reasonable factor, dollar for dollar you get higher RT performance from a current gen Nvidia card. AMD are evidently seeking to address that because they see the value in it making their products more desirable.

Ok so you are telling me a 4070

www.newegg.ca/asus-dual-rtx4070-o12g-evo-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-12gb-gddr6x/p/N82E16814126689?Item=N82E16814126689

www.newegg.ca/asrock-challenger-rx7700xt-cl-12go-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-12gb-gddr6/p/N82E16814930109


Unfortunately (for you) AMD software has been mentioned by Wizzard himself as a reason to get an AMD card. My nephew was like you just Game. He had a 3060 and I gifted him my 6800XT. He asked me the other day how to change his fan profile and I walked him through it. After that I blew his mind by going into the Display and turning the Contrast and Saturation way up and the brightness and hue down. When he was finished he loaded up a Game and was shocked at how the colours popped.

So I should pay more for less longevity Now let's get the elephant out of the room. The 4070 has 12GB of VRAM on a 192 bit bus. What does that mean about the 3080 with 10GB across a 320 bit bus?

wolfAMD themselves have come to the realisation that they need to vastly improve RT performance, and to attract buyers, perhaps such as myself, I wholeheartedly agree. NOT you - understood.

Mostly because the marketing tactics from Nvidia worked, while also giving AAA game companies piles of money to prioritize image quality instead of the quality of the game itself. Nvidia pushed for a feature most gamers don't care about because it isn't accesible to a majority of gamers unless they spend $2000 on a GPU, while you might care about RT, it isn't the main priority for most people, there was even a poll here and most people voted for price and raster performance. I just want to play games at a decent frame rate, and could care less if things aren't as shiny, games don't even need RT to look good IMO.

wolfI'm not here to talk about the software GUI which I know some users love to, it plays exceptionally little bearing on my purchase decision as I use them so rarely, believe it or not I mostly buy the hardware to enjoy the games themselves. If AMD appeals more to you because of Adrenalin, power to you!

And yet Nvidia users love to talk about how great the "ecosystem" (I hate the fact anyone even calls it that,reminds me of Apple garbage) is. When the software GUI is unified and doesn't require you to download a bunch of other things I think people would use it a lot more.

freeagentAhh.. I see where you are coming from now.. because you spent XXX on their shiny hardware, you want the shiny software to match.

I have owned many of their flagship cards over the years, mostly before I had a family..

I do miss Coolbits though, was pretty handy..

It really isn't about the software being shiny, its just having better functionality built into the control panel. I used to buy the flagship cards, until Nvidia raised prices and I refuse to pay what Nvidia is asking, and since they've pretty much killed off EVGA just to increase their profit margin I'd rather not give them my money.

kapone32Ok so you are telling me a 4070

Perhaps, depends on your budget and price point, locally available options and prices etc

kapone32Unfortunately (for you) AMD software has been mentioned by Wizzard himself as a reason to get an AMD card.

Why would this be unfortunate for me lol? I already told you I make up my own mind after I consume the facts about performance and features. What W1z gives as a reason to buy and AMD card is 110% irrelevant to me.

kapone32My nephew was like you just Game. He had a 3060 and I gifted him my 6800XT. He asked me the other day how to change his fan profile and I walked him through it. After that I blew his mind by going into the Display and turning the Contrast and Saturation way up and the brightness and hue down. When he was finished he loaded up a Game and was shocked at how the colours popped.

What you just talked about - again, beyond the point of this thread and the discussion at hand - isn't unique to owning an AMD card. Adrenaline does those things, that's awesome! I can see why you might like that and find it to make AMD cards more desirable to you, and others might too, good on them.

kapone32So I should pay more for less longevity Now let's get the elephant out of the room. The 4070 has 12GB of VRAM on a 192 bit bus. What does that mean about the 3080 with 10GB across a 320 bit bus?

More goalpost shifting... Make up your own mind about what you think it says and buy the product that's right for you, because clearly what I'm saying is lost on you. You either bring up another comparison or change the question.

I feel like your attitude demands you must find some way to be correct or at least for me to be wrong in your eyes, when there is no "one size fits all answer" to most of these questions.

Hecate91Mostly because the marketing tactics from Nvidia worked, even though they pushed too hard on a feature most gamers don't care about, while also giving AAA game companies piles of money to prioritize image quality instead of the quality of the game itself.

If someone was foolish enough to chose a card based solely on Nvidia's marking, then they get what they deserve in life, and yet I don't believe the hyperbole that NVidia's marketing tactics is mostly the reason behind todays market share. Plus the feature they pushed far less on at first has been an absolute runaway success, DLSS. 20+ series card owners are by-and-large pretty darn happy with that.

Hecate91And yet Nvidia users love to talk about how great the "ecosystem" (I hate the fact anyone even calls it that,reminds me of Apple garbage) is. When the software GUI is unified and doesn't require you to download a bunch of other things I think people would use it a lot more.

Require (to download a bunch of other things) is a strong word... and yeah, the ecosystem is richer and the features are generally more performant or higher quality. I'd wager most buyers drop the card in, install their drivers and just happily game without getting bogged down. The users you speak of are a minority, and don't account for the majority of the market share.

Man this thread is so derailed. More RT performance anyone?

Dr. DroI will reserve final judgment until they are released and widely benchmarked, with their auxiliary features put to the test (encoders, driver stability, etc.)

If you really do such a thing, then I will tip my hat to you.
But I can already tell that it must be absolutely perfect, dirt cheap and who knows what else, because the most minimal excuse and it will be trashed.

NhonhoAMD should launch graphics cards with user-swappable GPUs, just like motherboards. This would give it a much larger sales revenue and market share. If AMD doesn't change its approach in the GPU market, it will always be smashed by Nvidia.

Its possible, but performance will suffer.

Back in the day, there was a standard called MXM which allowed such things on laptops, if I remember correctly.

Not sure why is not used anymore.

AMD’s mindshare problem is partially due to lack of leadership. People hate Nvidia for pushing GSync, RT, DLSS etc but at least they have a clear strategy and have been executing it since 2018. What is AMD’s strategy? What’s their vision for the future of gaming?

Since they aren’t driving anything they will just be seen as the budget option trailing behind Nvidia’s strangle hold on the market.

There’s lots of room to improve RT performance so I can believe an 8800XT will challenge the 4080. In raster not so much though. $600 is my guess.

tancabeanAMD’s mindshare problem is partially due to lack of leadership. People hate Nvidia for pushing GSync, RT, DLSS etc but at least they have a clear strategy and have been executing it since 2018. What is AMD’s strategy? What’s their vision for the future of gaming?

Since they aren’t driving anything they will just be seen as the budget option trailing behind Nvidia’s strangle hold on the market.

There’s lots of room to improve RT performance so I can believe an 8800XT will challenge the 4080. In raster not so much though. $600 is my guess.

www.techpowerup.com/324171/amd-is-becoming-a-software-company-heres-the-plan
www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/from-the-developers-standpoint-they-love-this-strategyamds-plan-to-merge-its-rdna-and-cdna-gpu-architectures-to-a-unified-system-called-udna/
www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amd-research-suggests-plans-to-catch-up-to-nvidia-using-neural-supersampling-and-denoising-for-real-time-path-tracing
www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/6/17/why-microsoft-openai-and-nvidia-are-facing-anti-monopoly-probes

I really do wonder about vested interest in these discussions...

www.deseret.com/politics/2024/11/04/us-presidential-election-betting-event-contracts-kalshi-robinhood/
www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2024/11/books-briefing-gen-z-reading-books-waste-time/680586/

tancabeanWhat is AMD’s strategy?

To leave the gDPU market. Have you noticed that they haven't released a new software since October?
That is two months ago!
Now, if Radeon 8000 turns out to be a flop and the sales do not improve, their market share will go under 5%, maybe even 2-3%.
In which case they will no longer have money for R&D, and they will stop all dGPU projects, if currently any.

tancabeanWhat’s their vision for the future of gaming?

To give Nvidia the true monopoly.

Onasi*makes a so-so gesture* Somewhat. Time — yeah, potentially RT can be faster since you don’t have to manually set up lighting. Money - eh, hard to say, in terms of graphics my understanding is that the main big expense is actually assets themselves, which RT can’t really help with. Real factor for the push is simply hitting diminishing returns on raster performance increases and trying to find new ways and features to sell cards on. It’s cynical, but works.

I think we underestimate the power of marketing here - Huang at SIGGRAPH when announcing RTX was literally telling devs that their lives were going to be super easy because now everything would happen in real time, and it would run admirably because they already got 'TEN GIGARAYZ BRUH' in the very first gen - nobody had a fucking clue what it meant though. We have UE5 now and developers are choking on it massively, for all of its improved workflows. Sounds remarkably familiar to games choking on those awesome real time RT effects for gamers, too, doesn't it. Meanwhile, those same devs can't develop a proper game mechanic to save their lives; we've been served straight up broken economy systems even in games 5+ years in development (and even today, Cyberpunk for example is still broken AF in anything but the graphics department). But they DO have Ray reconstruction ultra turbo RTX version 18.9. Now, these devs are well educated folk, that surely know how to make a game. Why can't they?


Huang was just re-selling its AI solution to gamers and game developers, the strategy was adopted with Volta and has been a resounding success. On the horizon the same idea as crypto has taken hold of people's minds, except now they call it AI, or they call it RT, and it imagines a world where everything can be made, made possible, and the incredible happens because we can now calculate it in real time. As if that's not the same thing except now brute forcing it instead of making it in advance and reproducing it ;)

In the real world though, your games look like someone's rubbing vaseline in your eyes while stuttering through 30-60 FPS with a godawful input latency. Welcome to gaming in 2024, where people have stopped thinking for themselves and are slaves to commercial promises. In a world of misinformation and info overload, this can just exist and proliferate, in very much the same way as other utterly ridiculous developments can apparently proliferate. Please remember to post your thanks on your favorite social media feed.

We're in a dystopia, honestly.

3valatzyTo leave the gDPU market. Have you noticed that they haven't released a new software since October?
That is two months ago!
Now, if Radeon 8000 turns out to be a flop and the sales do not improve, their market share will go under 5%, maybe even 2-3%.
In which case they will no longer have money for R&D, and they will stop all dGPU projects, if currently any.

www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/amd-posts-record-revenues-and-says-rdna-4-is-on-track-for-early-2025-but-why-are-gaming-gpus-the-one-thing-it-cant-get-right/

Read this. AMD's GPU sales float on the console cycle, not on the PC dGPU market anymore, and they haven't for quite a while now.

Jtuck9www.techpowerup.com/324171/amd-is-becoming-a-software-company-heres-the-plan
www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/from-the-developers-standpoint-they-love-this-strategyamds-plan-to-merge-its-rdna-and-cdna-gpu-architectures-to-a-unified-system-called-udna/
www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amd-research-suggests-plans-to-catch-up-to-nvidia-using-neural-supersampling-and-denoising-for-real-time-path-tracing
www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/6/17/why-microsoft-openai-and-nvidia-are-facing-anti-monopoly-probes

I really do wonder about vested interest in these discussions...

www.deseret.com/politics/2024/11/04/us-presidential-election-betting-event-contracts-kalshi-robinhood/
www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2024/11/books-briefing-gen-z-reading-books-waste-time/680586/

All of those links say that AMD wants to be like Nvidia. And it’s mostly focused on the data center. Not really seeing any examples of gaming leadership there.

Not sure what election betting and college literacy have to do with the gaming market either.

give me PRO W8XXX please.....

Where is Legacy-ZA with his "You think people are complaining about products prices now?" :)

Vayra86Read this. AMD's GPU sales float on the console cycle, not on the PC dGPU market anymore, and they haven't for quite a while now.

This looks like anti-competitive agreements between AMD, Nvidia, Intel and Microsoft to divide areas of influence.
Everyone knows that the PC market is larger, wealthier and more prestigious than the console market.

You now read this:

Visual Capitalist recently released an infographic and article showcasing the market share of video game revenue, scaled to the massive success of mobile gaming at $101 billion in 2022. PC and console, meanwhile, were at $45 billion and $30 billion, respectively— and data available in charts at the source reveals PC revenues outstripping consoles since 2013.
If the PC lead held into 2023, it would mean PCs have enjoyed a solid ten years, trouncing consoles in gaming revenues. That said, the same data also reflects a mobile gaming revenue lead since 2009, at $18 billion to PC's $17 billion and console's $25 billion of the time.

www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/50-years-of-pc-vs-console-gaming-revenue-visualized-pc-maintains-lead-over-consoles-vr-mobile-and-handheld-market-data-included

john_When RX 7000 came out I was screaming about the low RT performance. I was called an Nvidia fanboy back then.
A few years latter and probably with SONY pushing AMD in that direction, the rumors talk about a new RX 8000 series that mostly increases performance in Raytracing.
Better late than never....

ray tracing is the new pixel shader, anyone who opposes to that is silly

I will buy the 8800xt if it is around 650 € in my country. (And the performance of a 4080)

Sounds like a sweet card to me.

Well a couple of months with hardware issues have made me change my view on upgrade path. I am going to wait for next gen AMD socket and perhaps Intel next gen. These 10% increases in performance is not worth the price. My only concern was that It would take a long time, bus these couple of months without my highend rig made me realize that I am going to prioritize different this time.

Transformative RT as big part of the industry love to talk about is a pipe dream. Right now RT has been used in 3 scenarios.

1 : to step up in scenarios when rasterisation trick clearly fail -> both Spiderman game building's reflection -> work nicely, perf to visual cost is OK, actually run not too shabby on AMD hardware.

2. To make game with a "cartoony" visual identity have a much more well-rounded, grounded, consistent visual identity by using some form of cheap GI -> Tiny Glade -> small, but noticeable visual positive impact, relatively cheap to run on both AMD and Nvidia

3. "transformative RT" To improve immersion and the overall lighting realism -> Cyberpunk 2077 or Alan Wake 2 -> really expensive to run for all GPU, even harder on AMD.

The problem with number 3, the poster child of RT, is to get a good result, RT alone is useless, you also need :

1. Great and detailed texture (add vram usage and development cost)

2. Good high poly model (add RT performance cost and also development cost)

3. Great animation (big development cost)

And at last but not least, the most important, because without it even path-tracing look bad.

4. Spot-on material properties, without it even the best lighting system will give you unrealistic result if different object with different material don't behave correctly with light (big increase in development cost and require advance knowledge that most studio, today, lacks in different amount)

With the video game industry already having a huge cost problem, can someone explain me how that transformative RT future will come to reality ?

A much more probable future (not for now, obviously) is let's render a frame in raster with "good enough and cheap enough" quality and ask an AI model to make it look realistic in real-time...That is the only way you truly save on development time and cost.