Macro DeviceBecause AMD are AMD. Can't remember any of their 2020s products priced right.

kapone32Lowest price 4090 on Newegg $2899 the most expensive is $5899

Lowest priced 7900XTX on Newegg $1406 the most expensive is $2499

Then look at the Lowest priced 7900XT on Newegg $869

DaemonForceBlack Friday has already chimed in to say this is dead wrong.

I'm looking but you're not thinking. What JUST happened this weekend? Oh, right. The largest tech sales of the entire year.
Those prices are super high because that's all that remains. The market has decided that this is what these cards are NOT worth.
Especially that last one. I've had my eye on the 7900XT for a long time and this is what the market has decided the interesting ones are worth:


You already know where I'm going with the other cards too.
These are the lock in prices on the good stuff. The rest is noise.
GG no fkin RE, you're welcome, don't @ me and...We WILL see these prices again soon.

DaemonForceRight because I'm going to go CAD for the sales in the US.
You want some mindshare to go with that?
Price discovery is going to be on its head for a few days to a few weeks before returning to normal.
Those CAD prices are going to resemble USD next sale.

DaemonForce

Dr. DroI want NVIDIA to lower their prices because they're backed into a corner because AMD has released a stellar product, only then will consumers win.

TomorrowPlayable framerate is not marketing. It is essential. A person buying 7900XTX is not buying it for 60fps tech demo.
Playing one tech demo at barely playable framerate (these days i expect high refreshrate experience at 90+) is not what i call a "money spent well".

TomorrowNvidia lowering prices while manufacturing costs go up and new G7 being also more expensive? Never gonna happen. The best we can expect is the same price and that's assuming they're feeling generous and cut into their margins.
AMD wont start a price war with Nvidia because they dont have the money coffers and capacity.
Nvidia wont start a price was with AMD because they want to increase their money coffers.

Dr. DroDon't worry, it's never been about RT itself but more about "Radeons are bad at X and Y so X and Y do not matter, because it exposes a deficiency in my favorite brand"

Better late than never, sadly RTX 50 series will walk all over it

Vya Domus@john_

See, this is what I meant when I said it doesn't matter. That's how a consumer looks at it, it wouldn't matter if AMD offered 4080 RT performance for say 500$ the consumer only knows that "Nvidia walks all over it" and that's the end of the story.

Vya DomusWhy would you care though, you buy Nvidia, what difference does this make to you.

Spoiler: Thrilling story time

See my last all-AMD build here? Ryzen 9. VII. ROG board. Peak AM4 here. This is around ~4 years old. Wasn't much later that I began to lose faith in them. I wonder why...



Not much later, that build turned into this.



The extremely poor experience I've had with the past 3 generations of graphics cards (Fury X, Vega FE and the VII) and the sheer disinterest from AMD in getting them fixed threw me over the edge. At the same time AM4 was going through a rough patch, Zen 3 had just been released and we X370 owners were blacklisted for over a year, because AMD wanted to upsell motherboards and came up with that ridiculous lie that X370 couldn't handle Zen 3 due to BIOS ROM size (despite the fact that post-Alder Lake, even a lowly A320 will run a 5800X3D - that was all it took) - after going through the lengths of selling my motherboard (which started to lose value because it "would no longer receive CPU updates due to hardware limitations"), I sidegraded to that Strix B550-E alongside the RTX 3090 (which was easily +100% performance over the VII) and went from the 3900XT to the 5950X processor. Funny how all it took was the threat of competition.

Eventually I wanted more CPU power and to experience DDR5, but I took into account that I have had *many* issues with this setup. I got hit by the infamous USB dropout problems, AGESA bugs everywhere - the first BIOS revision I experienced couldn't do DDR4-3200(!) with the kit I have. Motherboard was never the problem, later revisions ran 3600 with ease even at a very low VSoC. Zen 4, too, launched with AGESA so broken, problematic memory timings, ultra-high boot times, etc. - I ended up going to Intel. After many upgrades and an unplanned motherboard replacement,, that machine eventually turned into this, which is my current build's look and already on its way to the next evolution:



All the while, of course, I have never had a single blue screen with my 3090 and the 4080 that subsequently replaced it. I had fully intended to buy a 7900 XTX. But I was reminded of the experiences I had, and I got a very bad last minute ick. I'm gonna skip any further yada yada and just get to the point: I gotta tell you - if I hadn't and went ahead and gotten my 15 year old Steam account VAC banned because of my graphics card, I would be so utterly furious I would never even consider an AMD product again. Because you know what made that happen? The same laziness and stupidity that made me renounce my trust in AMD pretty much entirely. Instead of developing an SDK like Nvidia did for Reflex, the morons just thought it'd be a good idea to have the graphics driver tamper with the software and inject DLLs at will to manipulate it directly.

They'll have to work very hard to rebuild my trust. With Ryzen, they already have. Great progress has been done there and once OpenSIL replaces AGESA, pretty much the last of the reservations I had with the product line would be resolved. But with Radeon? It's gonna take much more than a lukewarm rendition of a card that purportedly offers the same performance as my 3 year old second-tier GPU with a breadth of low-quality clones of the technologies it already offers at a discount to impress me, especially if the software value-add and reliability I get from my existing card will obviously be superior for the foreseable future.

john_The consumer doesn't necessary look at it this way. Tech press and some people are doing a real crusade out there to convince everyone that anything that isn't Nvidia is crap and that's where the problem is. That's why we gone to a monopoly.

TomorrowIf you can call "achieving" barely playable 60fps on a card that most of it's shelf live has cost near 2000 as looking like 2 generations ahead then i dont know what to say. More like 2 generations behind. I remember the days when i bough a flagship card (that cost less than half as much) and cranked every setting to maximum and enjoyed a buttery smooth experience.

Neo_MorpheusAnd for us gamers, what does this thing add, besides pretty reflections on puddles?

Because gameplay wise, it adds nothing.

Dr. Drooverwhelming market share, perhaps it's time AMD reevaluates its business choices

Dr. Droheir ardent fans stop playing pretend that things are just fine.

Dr. DroThe truth is, right now, they don't measure up. In the close future, they won't measure up. In the long term... they MIGHT measure up.

JustBenchingIf you don't care about graphics then you are in the wrong thread. No gpu can do anything gameplay wise.

Neo_MorpheusMissed the whole point, but its ok.

john_The consumer will google that and end up with many posts saying "AMD drivers are trash, FSR is trash, only buy Nvidia cards" and will go and buy the Nvidia card.

Dr. Droagree that the consumer doesn't necessarily look at it this way. But that is because I disagree with your second point, the notion that the tech press is doing a real crusade to convince people that only Nvidia is simply not true.

JustBenchingI don't think I did. You made 50 posts about rt being a gimmick cause it only improves graphics. Dude the whole graphics thing on a game is a gimmick. Still, that's what you buy a new gpu for, to render better gimmicks.


Really though? Most of the posts on the internet is about ngrendia and how great amd is. What are you even talking about? Just read this very thread, 99% of the posts are against nvidia. Feels like amd fans live in an alternate reality, lol

Neo_MorpheusMissed it again, but clearly you do have an axe to grind with me, so no matter what I say, it will be useless.

But to clarify, RT is a gimmick that its getting way too much attention for adding absolutely nothing to gameplay.

wolfIt's faster overall in the TPU review because of the AMD sponsored "RT Lite" titles (read, RT not worth enabling) - and even then, by such an insignificant amount it made virtually zero sense to upgrade from a 3080 to the 7900XT - that would be been almost entirely a waste of money for the way I play my PC games - bearing in mind I already owned the 3080 for about 2 years at that point.



3080 is at 89% at 1080p and 1440p respectively overall.

But here lets see games where RT is far more impactful, all of a sudden it's not an upgrade at all, in fact it's slower at RT.




If you've seen me around the forums you know that I get a lot of enjoyment from games from the immersion they give, and I happen to find lighting to be a very compelling improvement in a lot of games where RT is well executed. If I'm going to pay $500++ USD for a video card, you bet I want it to be a feature rich, envelope pushing option.

People can proclaim it's a mindshare issue and that it's sad as much as they want (and it may well be for others), but I have zero allegiance to Nvidia, they just happen to currently make the most compelling products for my use case. If and When AMD can do that (again, noting I have and continue to own AMD video cards), they'll always be considered when I want to upgrade.

AMD's worst enemy has been themselves, in products, marketing and PR - but I am confident and hopeful they're at least trying to turn that around, re: the focus of this news topic and FSR4 going ML.

I will gladly part with my hard earned when AMD make a product that suits my use case, mindshare, tech press coverage (opinion) has essentially nothing to do with it, I look at the numbers, features etc and make up my own mind.

I certainly don't expect anyone else to buy a video card for the reasons I do, and I find it equally daft anyone would expect the inverse, or claim to know why I make the choices I make without asking me first.

TSiAhmatGuys, i feel like we are getting a bit off topic in here.

And the conversation seems to go nowhere...

JustBenchingThat's what people that swore a blood oath to amd don't get. That rdna3 was a total failure cause it could never convince someone with a 30 series to upgrade. I had the 3090 at the time and looking at the 7900xtx, it was a downgrade. The games I couldn't play well on my 3090 would play even worse on the xtx...

kapone32Prove that

kapone32It is always the same Nvidia users that come on and complain about AMD even though they have no experience.

TSiAhmatThis message doesn't help getting this conversation solved. You are just throwing shade at the other party not seeing the mistakes both did.

TSiAhmatThis message doesn't help getting this conversation solved. You are just throwing shade at the other party not seeing the mistakes both did.

kapone32It may not help but it is still the truth. It has been the same for years. Just look at the message above yours. This is not AMD vs Nvidia thread but the same people have come on to make it exactly that. Just look at the people using RT as a reason to not get AMD in a thread talking about production of AMD's next gen GPUs.

JustBenchingIn this very thread, people that buy nvidia have been called sheep and idiots driven by marketing (multiple times, by multiple people), BUT - it's always the same nvidia users that come on and complain :D

kapone32I asked you to prove that a 7900XTX is that much slower vs a 3090 and you posted PT. How does a proprietary feature matter in the conversation, like the 3090 is so good at PT.