Bomby569if you reply to fact based arguments with "i think ...", than nothing is out of the realm of possibilities and even elephants can fly. The world is your oyster

From over 900 euros to as low as 641, while staying under 700 euros.


For a little over 800 euros, down for a moment to 662(this could be a fake price for one day from a small shop trying to gather attention) and then jumping over 950 euros.


I can find examples that favor your argument.
The thing is that, with prices of next series going up, current series see also a price increase. That's why I say that the market is chaotic.

But Nvidia cards where retaining their value for longer and that was the norm for many years and that was always a strong reason for many to choose to pay more for an Nvidia card. They knew that they would get a high return price when selling that card in the second hand market. On the other hand AMD cards are cheaper to buy, but because they usually lose value over time, because of AMD having a habit of lowering prices slowly, they return lower value when sold in second hand market.

It's not just a baseless "I think" and you should understand that people who don't start their post with a "I am 200% sure that Earth is flat", it's not because they don't have arguments or they are uncertain of those arguments.

Now, about those elephants that can fly, you don't mean Dumbo, are you? :p (I am only kidding here)

john_

From over 900 euros to as low as 641, while staying under 700 euros.


For a little over 800 euros, down for a moment to 662(this could be a fake price for one day from a small shop trying to gather attention) and then jumping over 950 euros.


I can find examples that favor your argument.
The thing is that, with prices of next series going up, current series see also a price increase. That's why I say that the market is chaotic.

But Nvidia cards where retaining their value for longer and that was the norm for many years and that was always a strong reason for many to choose to pay more for an Nvidia card. They knew that they would get a high return price when selling that card in the second hand market. On the other hand AMD cards are cheaper to buy, but because they usually lose value over time, because of AMD having a habit of lowering prices slowly, they return lower value when sold in second hand market.

It's not just a baseless "I think" and you should understand that people who don't start their post with a "I am 200% sure that Earth is flat", it's not because they don't have arguments or they are uncertain of those arguments.

Now, about those elephants that can fly, you don't mean Dumbo, are you? :p (I am only kidding here)

don't compare different things when you can make a better comparison. There is no need to and i quote "find examples that favor your argument" like you are doing.
I see about the same low prices and average prices ever since day one, am i not seeing right?

Bomby569




don't compare different things when you can make a better comparison. There is no need to and i quote "find examples that favor your argument" like you are doing.
I see about the same low prices and average prices ever since day one, am i not seeing right?

7900XT had an MSRP price of $900 and based on your chart the lowest the average price gone down was close $750 before going up again.
4070 Ti had an MSRP of $800 and the lowest the average price gone was $750 before going up again.

So 7900XT gone down $150 on average and 4070 Ti gone down $50 on average.
Also the 4070 Ti seems to have a higher price increase compared to the 7090XT.

So, do you really post something different with those graphs compared to what I am saying?

john_7900XT had an MSRP price of $900 and based on your chart the lowest the average price gone down was close $750 before going up again.
4070 Ti had an MSRP of $800 and the lowest the average price gone was $750 before going up again.

So 7900XT gone down $150 on average and 4070 Ti gone down $50 on average.
Also the 4070 Ti seems to have a higher price increase compared to the 7090XT.

So, do you really post something different with those graphs compared to what I am saying?

i just told you to use a better charts when you have them (no need to compare asrock models with gygabite ones) that really have no other variables, that's it.
i also already told you and showed that what you said in the beginning was wrong, i have nothing to add.

john_Nvidia puts a standard price and when it is time to lower that price, they don't.

MadMan007DOA at these prices, for MSRP. That is how the vast majority of viewers determine price/performance value and AMD needs greatly superior price/performance regardless of RTX 50 availability. 9070 needs to be $450-500, XT $600-650 at most, the lower end would really catch attention. Higher street prices would be frustrating but most reviewers won't determine that in release-day reviews, obviously, because those prices would come after review publication. As long as availability is decent they won't get backlash like NV has.

Doesn't matter, if the "Gamers" will, or will not buy these, at insane prices. There are devouring AI maniaks, (much like the ex-crypto gang, switched to the "new" endeavour, to iflate GPU vendor's margins) will gladdly gobble entire stock in droves, before the cards will go on sale.
Sadly, ordinary "peasant" buyers are yet left off-board, with just crisps crumbles from the Business "Master's" table. And this is only getting worse with each generation.

john_Nvidia puts a standard price and when it is time to lower that price, they don't. They just release a new product of the same series at that same price.

nVidia does nVidia stuff. They set their prices, accordingly their own wishes, and 70%+ margins "thresthold". This is up to competition, to set the price realistically, leaving nVidia greed uncovered and obvious.
But alas, there' no competition. And AMD is so reckless, that they are risking their entire RTG division left in shatters by the community. The mindless bots, on the other hand, will buy at whatever price, furtherly dooming the market. This is Zug-Zwang for "gamers" and usual buyer.

Legacy-ZAThe major point here is, is the increased VRAM capacity, RTX3000 GPUs are still very powerful, it's just that their VRAM crippled them.

Actually, not all RTX 30 series... ;)

HereticbarActually, not all RTX 30 series... ;)

Yes, everything but the 3090, but really, how many bought that? Besides, if you still have a 3090, you can comfortably skip this generation.

Does anyone know the specific reason FSR4 can't come to 7900 xt and xtx?

edit: nm i guess it does come down to AI cores not being present. eh.

john_7900XT had an MSRP price of $900 and based on your chart the lowest the average price gone down was close $750 before going up again.
4070 Ti had an MSRP of $800 and the lowest the average price gone was $750 before going up again.

HereticbarActually, not all RTX 30 series... ;)

I saw it in the past my young collegues bought nvidia 3070 and 3080. The 8GB VRAM I considered very bad at that time for the 3070. I did not saw any raytracing in those youtube cp2077 videos at all. I went for the 6600XT although much worse in gaming performance.

The 3070 suffered quite fast the 8GB VRAM curse which I saw quite early before anyone wrote about that.

--

I was curious a few hours ago about that 4070 TI. Then I remembered something and checked again. (Benchmark also show this claim)

I think the 4070 ti was the "unlaunched" 4080 with 12GB VRAM. It's basically a 4080 card with low VRAM.


If the buyer is happy with 12GB VRAM, why not. Personally I would not compare 12GB limited card to a proper AMD card in the long run.
www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4070-ti.c3950

For short term after the cards are released and bought those 12GB VRAM for the nvidia 4070 ti, 8GB VRAM nvidia 3070 will not really matter. I would not bet on that low VRAM when you intend to keep it longer as 2 years.

john_But Nvidia cards where retaining their value for longer and that was the norm for many years and that was always a strong reason for many to choose to pay more for an Nvidia card.

Yes we saw that with the NVIDIA 3070. of course? or am i wrong and those were sold quite fast because of low vram?

--

The high asking price of newer graphic cards will lead to higher second hand prices for certain not so old graphic cards. I'm not talking about the entry level segment for 720p playing which now intel is the 3rd graphic card player. I would be really, really surprised when AMD and NVIDIA will drop their prices for good will on their new products. That they will sell the same performance cards cheaper as their previous cards.

_roman_I saw it in the past my young collegues bought nvidia 3070 and 3080. The 8GB VRAM I considered very bad at that time for the 3070. I did not saw any raytracing in those youtube cp2077 videos at all. I went for the 6600XT although much worse in gaming performance.

The 3070 suffered quite fast the 8GB VRAM curse which I saw quite early before anyone wrote about that.

--

I was curious a few hours ago about that 4070 TI. Then I remembered something and checked again. (Benchmark also show this claim)

I think the 4070 ti was the "unlaunched" 4080 with 12GB VRAM. It's basically a 4080 card with low VRAM.


If the buyer is happy with 12GB VRAM, why not. Personally I would not compare 12GB limited card to a proper AMD card in the long run.
www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4070-ti.c3950

For short term after the cards are released and bought those 12GB VRAM for the nvidia 4070 ti, 8GB VRAM nvidia 3070 will not really matter. I would not bet on that low VRAM when you intend to keep it longer as 2 years.



Yes we saw that with the NVIDIA 3070. of course? or am i wrong and those were sold quite fast because of low vram?

--

The high asking price of newer graphic cards will lead to higher second hand prices for certain not so old graphic cards. I'm not talking about the entry level segment for 720p playing which now intel is the 3rd graphic card player. I would be really, really surprised when AMD and NVIDIA will drop their prices for good will on their new products. That they will sell the same performance cards cheaper as their previous cards.

funny enough if you look at the used market, they go for around the same price, it's not really a problem if you can sell them and move on is it?

so where da heck price-performance falls for the 5070 Ti to the 5070 ?? is almost double price for the Ti.
or maybe this is just a paper launch and they will raise the price on the 5070 too.
Just a rhetorical question, this is just nuts and i can only laugh at the fact that is not Covid or Crypto crisis and they are bumping the prices like none cares.

Paramount650-700$ is good price for XT if same as 7900XTX in performance

+ 20%Vat = 780-840e still good?

john_So 7900XT gone down $150 on average and 4070 Ti gone down $50 on average.

Your comparison is false because 4070Ti is not a competitor to 7900xt :laugh:

This is the Nitro+ which probably has a $100 premium over the regular variants, but even then, neither of these prices are the $500 that AMD claimed they were aiming for, quite unambigously.

"We're focusing on mainstream products with RDNA4; Expect 7900XT performance for the cost of a [$499] 7800XT"

ContraYour comparison is false because 4070Ti is not a competitor to 7900xt :laugh:

They've been aligned on the same price for a long time, so technically, they are.

Still DP2.1a UHBR 13.5 54Gbps bandwidth, same as last gen

AMD never learn how to price their graphic cards or simply don't care.

DenverThey've been aligned on the same price for a long time, so technically, they are.

It's not that they cost the same. You can't compare garbage on a 192-bit bus and 12GB of VRAM with a larger and more powerful GPU. Of course, unless you are Mr. Jensen 5070>4090 :roll:

jormungandso where da heck price-performance falls for the 5070 Ti to the 5070 ?? is almost double price for the Ti.
or maybe this is just a paper launch and they will raise the price on the 5070 too.
Just a rhetorical question, this is just nuts and i can only laugh at the fact that is not Covid or Crypto crisis and they are bumping the prices like none cares.

Expect 3070Ti performance +10-15% due to higher clocks and more VRAM

DahitaBut also, if the card is good? Can't believe that didn't cross your mind.

For Amd fans all Amd gpus are good there is no other options.
So its subjective

Now you can finally stop complaining.

DavenI don’t buy Nvidia because their products are piss poor quality. But judging by your comment, it looks like you may not want to hear that.

Nvidia is only one who can make real gpus for 4K gamers, Amdead cant deliver, they just piss more slow poor quality gpus

john_They need if they want to secure their dominance in the market and their loyal customer base. It's not smart to abandon a market because you found better margins elsewhere. Nvidia will limit supply to cover AI demand, but they will do anything that is necessary to not look like they are abandoning gamers. And yes AMD is eating sand because if they come out with real MSRPs at $599 and $699 and good availability, everyone will call 9070 series DOA On the other hand Nvidia coming out with $549 and $749 fake MSRPs, paper launch and $200-$300 higher real street prices is considered great(for scalpers maybe).

749$ + Vat 20%= 898e
And then ppls cry when its more than MSRP

Legacy-ZAFound a rather interesting video, worth watching:

If u want better colors just go and buy Oled monitor..
Also whit Nvdia u can use higher settings vs Slow Amd gpus.

DenverNow you can finally stop complaining.

the man is used to tweets ending in disaster

jormungandso where da heck price-performance falls for the 5070 Ti to the 5070 ?? is almost double price for the Ti.
or maybe this is just a paper launch and they will raise the price on the 5070 too.
Just a rhetorical question, this is just nuts and i can only laugh at the fact that is not Covid or Crypto crisis and they are bumping the prices like none cares.

Rhetorical question: who will stop them? They create the "value" from the thin air.
The saddest part of this all GPU pricing and scarsity "issue" (disastet), is that both nVidia and AMD, are not "testing waters" anymore. They did that during Turing/Ampere, RDNA1/2. Now they openly and deliberately push their will and narratives upon consumer market. The reason why Intel isn't just there- they have no control yet. They will, as soon as they'll get the tinniest grasp. This is going to be triopoly, if Intel is gonna survive.

Chrispy_This is the Nitro+ which probably has a $100 premium over the regular variants, but even then, neither of these prices are the $500 that AMD claimed they were aiming for, quite unambigously.

"We're focusing on mainstream products with RDNA4; Expect 7900XT performance for the cost of a [$499] 7800XT"

True! But You forget that 4070/5070 also are the mainstream SKUs. This doesn't mean, that AMD is going to price their products, accordingly to their own expences, and strategy. These are irrelevant.

5070 is going to be unabtanium as a FE, and the AIB will sell at $900-1500 ($150-$300 markup, minimum), by resellers and big stores like Amazon, NewEgg and others. And there might be much more of those NPC buyers, who will be ready to camp near the stores for a week+.

Also, Sapphire lately, has begun to set their pricing unreasonably high, while still loosing at quality, to even other AMD partners. So $100 markup is a bit of "cheap"

I still have ~300 unplayed games on GOG. Also I bought the Factorio's DLC Space Age, so in the next six months I absolutely don't care about the RTX 5xxx and RX 9xxx series.
I wish all forum participants the same ;)