ReTiCuLelol, what really makes me el o l is Nvidia and ATi always do this.

I believe most of the time we make more speculation than anything to be left in disappointment
with a new card hitting the market that's equal in performance or slightly higher or the price is just slightly lower.

What it all boils down to in the end, is we either are going on the Nvidia or ATi bandwagon, since neither companies ever release something significantly faster that doesn't take the next company more than 2-3months to release something equal or slightly faster...

I hope I made sense..

Agreed, although I would never say they NEVER release anything significantly faster that the other company can catch in 2-3 mo. Nvidia has its G80 that blew away all last generation cards and is, arguably, still on top after almost 1.5 years, and ATI had the 9700 that NV took a while to catch. It's been rare, but it definitely happens.

True but not often enough =(.

I can't justify buying this card, nothing out or coming out takes advantage of it other than Crysis.

ReTiCuLeTrue but not often enough =(.

I can't justify buying this card, nothing out or coming out takes advantage of it other than Crysis.

crysis is only left as a benchmark , the game for me is not replayable after i beat it three times in 3 different difficulty settings , gets boring , the graphics are amazing but u need fun an enjoyment too ...................... although i jumped for the hd 3870 x2 , ill be keeping this till they come out with some new tech video cards , and i am very sure it will keep me in good hands for a while too =)

i sold my 8800 gts (g92) to get the x2 , i wud have gone for this 9800 gx2 but its gonna be the same slap job like the 7950 gx2 , which was a piece of crap ( horrible drivers ) and never got refined to make use of it properly , i bought it kept it for 3 days and sold it on ebay , they should have not been too lazy and just put 2 cores on one pcb ......... o well.

Hawk1Agreed, although I would never say they NEVER release anything significantly faster that the other company can catch in 2-3 mo. Nvidia has its G80 that blew away all last generation cards and is, arguably, still on top after almost 1.5 years, and ATI had the 9700 that NV took a while to catch. It's been rare, but it definitely happens.

actually, the market was quite competitive between the two up through the X1900 series - it was the acquisition of ATI by AMD and the resulting 2900XT fiasco that put them far behind schedule, and ATI have been busting balls to catch back up.

as far as im concerned the 9800 gx2 is not a single card solution like the 3870 x2. Its just 2 cards glued together. Nvidia got scared and rushed this product.

I'm sure, also, that nVidia will go their "flood-the-market" strategy with this release also. When nVidia feels threatened, they're quite known for having all their licensed brands release their individual new products all on the same day.

ATI does also, but they tend to stagger their licensed brands out a bit more. You might have a couple launch one day, then a few days later another couple will launch. nVidia goes all or nothing!

TooFastas far as im concerned the 9800 gx2 is not a single card solution like the 3870 x2. Its just 2 cards glued together. Nvidia got scared and rushed this product.

That's all fine an dandy but.. imo the 3870x2 seeing as it doesn't perform that much faster than an 8800 GTX. Here are some quotes from another forum, which I do agree with.


8800GTXs over an 3870x2, for several reasons.

1: it's drivers are mature, whereas the 3870x2 has no mature drivers, and therefore, eats dirt on a lotta games, literally, compared to even an 8800GT.

2: the 3870 is not made to directly compete with the 8800GTX in terms of performance, it's made to make a good price vs. performance match, verses higher end NVidia cards.

3: ATI focuses more on image quality than frame rate. What does this mean? You're a lot more likely to be able to turn some serious pretty-crap on with a 3870 than an 8800GT, and still get good frame rates.

4: the 3870x2 has 512MB of RAM, per GPU, from what I know. The 8800GTX has 768MBs of RAM, that means it handles higher resolutions better, usually, in most games, as higher resolution = more textures loaded in to the card, and games like CoD4, Crysis etc. have so many textures that 512MB of RAM isn't really enough at resolutions like 1920x1200 and 2560x1600... heck, 768MB of RAM ain't enough for a video card at those resolutions, in my opinion.

Here's a review of the card, facing it against the 8800GT: www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/490/11/ I put it on the page that's Crysis since that's an important game, to me at least. As you can see, it only gets 6FPS over a 8800GT, single card setup. 8800GTXs in SLI get a lot better FPS than that. But they're also a lot more expensive.

TooFastas far as im concerned the 9800 gx2 is not a single card solution like the 3870 x2. Its just 2 cards glued together. Nvidia got scared and rushed this product.

They were thinking 2 PCBs are better than 1 like the 7950 GX2, Besides TBH if people try to Compare the 9800 GX2 to the 3870X2 they are honestly Mistaken cause the 3870X2 was a experiment to see what they could do and they succeeded on beating out the 8800 Ultra also it would be old tech vs new which always doesnt go well. Im sure ATi Has something to Combat the 9800 GX2 up their Sleeve and i don think its the X2 card.

I hope so. I just find it rather sad the direction AMD has gone with things especially the phenom. It seemed when they were separate companies things were a little more prompt and efficient.

eidairaman1They were thinking 2 PCBs are better than 1 like the 7950 GX2, Besides TBH if people try to Compare the 9800 GX2 to the 3870X2 they are honestly Mistaken cause the 3870X2 was a experiment to see what they could do and they succeeded on beating out the 8800 Ultra also it would be old tech vs new which always doesnt go well. Im sure ATi Has something to Combat the 9800 GX2 up their Sleeve and i don think its the X2 card.

not the 3870x2, anyways . . . if what little bit we've seen leaked about the upcoming HD4000 series, I wouldn't be surprised to see ATI offer a second x2 based off of that platform; and if that goes over well with the RV770, and whenever they decide to launch the dual-core R700, you can bet two R700s will find their way on to a single PCB.

Just basing this off of how ATI has coordinated staying on nVidia's toes in the past . . . ATI will find one small thing that they excell over, and flaunt nVidia with it while the green camp tries to haphazardly stay a 1/2 step ahead. Remember the shader wars back during the heyday of the ATI 1000 series? Remember the GDRAM wars during the same timeframe? IMO, we're going to see ATI stay nippin' heel of nVidia for a while, until nVidia stops their panic offerings and goes back to the drawing board.

Just remember. This isn't final, set in stone. We still don't know how much memory it's going to boast, or shaders and what not.. I have a feelings it's going to be more like better than 2x8800GTX's in SLI, at around the same price as a single GTX. Makes sense wouldn't it? I mean, they have Tesla technology.. if they can build computers to run from a GPU, they can make a better video card. :D

I cant wait for matrox to release its next card and prove once and for all they have the best video cards ever (2d) all this fanboyezim is stoopid Ati and Nvidia are both so freaking close it don't matter now does it:shadedshu Matrox Rules :nutkick:

strick94uI cant wait for matrox to release its next card and prove once and for all they have the best video cards ever (2d) all this fanboyezim is stoopid Ati and Nvidia are both so freaking close it don't matter now does it:shadedshu Matrox Rules :nutkick:

So if they are so great why arent you running one :nutkick::slap:

ReTiCuLeThat's all fine an dandy but.. imo the 3870x2 seeing as it doesn't perform that much faster than an 8800 GTX. Here are some quotes from another forum, which I do agree with.


8800GTXs over an 3870x2, for several reasons.

1: it's drivers are mature, whereas the 3870x2 has no mature drivers, and therefore, eats dirt on a lotta games, literally, compared to even an 8800GT.

2: the 3870 is not made to directly compete with the 8800GTX in terms of performance, it's made to make a good price vs. performance match, verses higher end NVidia cards.

3: ATI focuses more on image quality than frame rate. What does this mean? You're a lot more likely to be able to turn some serious pretty-crap on with a 3870 than an 8800GT, and still get good frame rates.

4: the 3870x2 has 512MB of RAM, per GPU, from what I know. The 8800GTX has 768MBs of RAM, that means it handles higher resolutions better, usually, in most games, as higher resolution = more textures loaded in to the card, and games like CoD4, Crysis etc. have so many textures that 512MB of RAM isn't really enough at resolutions like 1920x1200 and 2560x1600... heck, 768MB of RAM ain't enough for a video card at those resolutions, in my opinion.

Here's a review of the card, facing it against the 8800GT: www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/490/11/ I put it on the page that's Crysis since that's an important game, to me at least. As you can see, it only gets 6FPS over a 8800GT, single card setup. 8800GTXs in SLI get a lot better FPS than that. But they're also a lot more expensive.

Crysis was specifically optimized for Nvidia and i owned a 8800 gts g92 before i got my hd 3870 x2 and i know the difference ...... here is another review giving u a different story where the radeon is neck and neck or faster than an ultra here .............. so reviews to me are guidelines not set in stone , i score 17k + on 3d06 which is way more than what that guy got on his system , and thats on stock settings ................. everything is relative , but an 8800 gtx is not better than hd 3870 x2 , and i run a 28 inch monitor , and i ran a 8800 gtx from a friend of mine to play crysis to compare with 8800 gts g92 , and both cards crapped out at my max resolution , on the other hand i get a nice framrate at 1680 x 1050 from this card ........................... plus its the same price as a 8800 gtx and 200 dollars cheaper than an ultra.

www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5356&Itemid=40&limit=1&limitstart=1

the only good thing about the nvidia cards is i got my money back from selling them , so no complaints there.


PS. it still doesnt stop me from tryign out the 9800 gx2 when it comes out ................ i am just spoiled that way =P

I think this will be a very good card for several reasons:
1) 8800GTS > HD3870 therefore 2x 8800GTS > 2x HD3870
2) Nvidia couldn't possibly make the same driver mistake they did w/ the 7950GX2, and if they do then they need to work on their quality
3) This card is most likely designed to compete w/ the HD3870X2, nvidia won't release this card unless it competes both price-wise and performance wise

The only thing I worry about is the heat issue. I could see them releasing it with a heat issue, but we'll see how that turns out.

Believe it or not though, the only thing stopping me from getting an HD3870X2 is the fact that none of the ATI chipset companies offer a "Step-Up" Program which I feel is a necessity with all of these new cards coming out in spring.

-Indybird

I still get the feeling that the GX2 might not be as up to snuff as everyone is hoping that it will be - we'll have to see. Usually, when nVidia is going to be offering a sure-fire thing, they're quick to jump the gun and get the benches out for everyone to see . . . although, they could be playing off of everyone's anticipation.

Still, though, if this offering does flop - that'll be a major boost for ATI, as they've been needing for nVidia to have a little slip-up.

If it doesn't flop, and actually does what they claim it too; ATI will be hot on their tails with the 4000 series, and they'll try another dual-GPU PCB design again, which would more than likely put them back on par with where they are right now. ATI is betting on their superiority in a dual GPU setup, and hoping that nVidia burns themself trying to compete on ATI's terms. I truly, seriously, 100% forsee this going to ATI slapping 2 dual-core GPUs on one board, hoping nVidia will try to put two single-core GPUs on one PCB (which I have the feeling would just fall extremelly short), and if they don't go that route, who wants to bet that nVidia will have the balls-crazy idea to epoxy 3 or 4 PCB's together instead of just 2?

Just trying to look at the market from a 3rd perspective - it's looking more and more like ATI has lead nVidia into competing in a section of the market that ATI does extremelly well in; we've already seen early specs for the HD4000 series, the 3870x2 is going over a lot better than many thought it would, and we all know the dual-core R700 is right around the corner . . . and the only multi-GPU setup we've seen from nVidia is the GX2. I sure hope they have an ace up their sleeve if they want to keep as much of a performance lead as they have.

and so NVIDIA is trying to BUY AMD.. :wtf: I think that would be badass..

Bluefox1115and so NVIDIA is trying to BUY AMD.. :wtf: I think that would be badass..

That would be terrible... nvidia bought 3dfx too... look what happened to them. if nVidia buys ATI we can say goodbye to market competition... which is why i dont think theyre in any danger of doing that, as there are laws against monopolistic mergers.

the only notion I gave towards humoring the thought of nVidia buying AMD - has nothing to do with Intel wanting to get into the GPU ring, but instead, nVidia not being able to design a competitive dual-core GPU as ATi is doing.

indybirdI think this will be a very good card for several reasons:
1) 8800GTS > HD3870 therefore 2x 8800GTS > 2x HD3870
2) Nvidia couldn't possibly make the same driver mistake they did w/ the 7950GX2, and if they do then they need to work on their quality
3) This card is most likely designed to compete w/ the HD3870X2, nvidia won't release this card unless it competes both price-wise and performance wise

The only thing I worry about is the heat issue. I could see them releasing it with a heat issue, but we'll see how that turns out.

Believe it or not though, the only thing stopping me from getting an HD3870X2 is the fact that none of the ATI chipset companies offer a "Step-Up" Program which I feel is a necessity with all of these new cards coming out in spring.

-Indybird

good analysis, but i will still bend towards them making this card ridiculously priced and its going to have massive driver issues , if i am proven wrong i got no worries , gx2 is my next card. =)

lolol. all out of no where... there is like.. no nvidia chipset boards that are AM2+, solely because AMD wants people to buy their ATI cards now? Err...

I think ATi should become a single company again and let Nvidia buy AMD.. Not like they have anything good coming out anyway lol

eidairaman1So if they are so great why arent you running one :nutkick::slap:

Oh come on even matrox deserves ! fan boi:laugh:

phanbueyThat would be terrible... nvidia bought 3dfx too... look what happened to them. if nVidia buys ATI we can say goodbye to market competition... which is why i dont think theyre in any danger of doing that, as there are laws against monopolistic mergers.

So if there was laws against Monopolistic Mergers, why hasn't Microsoft and Oil COmpanies been Blammed for it and then forced to divide into totally different companies- no parent-child companies, but equal ground companies that have no ties to each other.

eidairaman1So if there was laws against Monopolistic Mergers, why hasn't Microsoft and Oil COmpanies been Blammed for it and then forced to divide into totally different companies- no parent-child companies, but equal ground companies that have no ties to each other.

Monopolistic Mergers are not allowed to occur. Microsoft never MERGED to become a monopoly, they became one due to ultracompetitive business practices, therefore a merger could have never been prevented since one never took place. OIL companies HAVE been split. Mobil, Exxon, Chevron (and e few others) now have no ties to each other. But they used to be one big company called Standard Oil - the biggest monopoly in history of monopolies. OPEC, on the other hand, is not under US jurisdiction, otherwise they would be guilty of price fixing, and would be disbanded.

My comment before is slightly incorrect and does not take into account all the legal technicalities associated with mergers. But if nVidia wants to continue trading on the US market, they would not be allowed to buy out AMD.