When will AMD stop? Is the company give us a chance to spend off our change after spending at one shop, keep this up and I could get one of these free for joining a preview at Microsoft!

The Nvidia 8000 series card look better than that.

so basicly we are looking at 4830 with 128bit instead of 256, and GDDR5 instead of 3 to make up for it? and to make that change clear the new name was given?

i would have prefered to name it 4830 gddr5 edition to make that clear, but i understand they dont want to seem like they scam costumers by making them think the gddr5 will make it run faster.

ATI kicks its own ass by overcrowding the market with too many different card models. I go to CompUSA all the time and all the ATI cards I see on the shelves next to nVidia cards are a bunch of model numbers I don't recognize at prices I'd never pay for such low performance.

AMD needs to re-consider this business model.

The 4770 is a great card, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what this card is for. :confused:

Why use RV770? Or are they just trying to use up old stock of bad chips while they can?

I have this funny feeling that we will see an RV740 based HD4730 once the old stock of RV770 is used up...

cause rv770 is available..... 4890s are basicly replacing 4870s and the 4770s are replacing the 4830/4850s so thats a ton of rv770 cores that are less in demand.

Now the second issue is the $100 videocard market is booming, and ATI cant keep up with 4770 demand, so putting GDDR5 on the 4830 makes it pricewise and performancewise slightly under the 4770 to fill that gap.

I say its the perfect card for OEM systems cause this will be a limited run.

newtekie1Why use RV770? Or are they just trying to use up old stock of bad chips while they can?

I have this funny feeling that we will see an RV740 based HD4730 once the old stock of RV770 is used up...

Old stock of good chips, doncha mean. :laugh:

Nothing wrong with the R770LE.

I'm pretty sure that they're doing it because we're at the point where a 128bit bus board with gddr5 is cheaper than 256bit with ddr3

HalfAHertzI'm pretty sure that they're doing it because we're at the point where a 128bit bus board with gddr5 is cheaper than 256bit with ddr3

Now that you mention it, THAT makes the most sense. Probably has nothing to do with the chip at all. ATI is just doing the proper thing and actually renaming the card when they do it -- hopefully the shady vendors who like to market 128-bit 3850's with GDDR2 will follow along.

Basically they want to reduce thier cost per card and on the other hand, consumers pay lesser.

It's typically a 4830 with 128Bit interface and GDDR5.

4830 loses to the 4770 and they're trying to clear it up since the 4800series are the top-notch in performance. It wouldn't make sense that 1 4700series could beat 1 of the 4800series in thier default settings. They're probably following to what consumers always follow, the higher the number, the better. Replacing the 4830 to 4730 is not a bad choice.

EDIT. Just noticed it's a new RV770CE. Probably they've had plans that 4830 would sell hot. Since thier 40nm processor is new, and they have plenty of RV770, they're clearing them up first.

mdm-adphOld stock of good chips, doncha mean. :laugh:

Nothing wrong with the R770LE.

No, I mean bad, as in defective.

HalfAHertzI'm pretty sure that they're doing it because we're at the point where a 128bit bus board with gddr5 is cheaper than 256bit with ddr3

That was the point behind RV740, we are wondering why they are using RV770 instead of RV740 to make cards that spec wise fit RV740 perfectly. Why use the more expensive to manufacture RV770?

mdm-adphNow that you mention it, THAT makes the most sense. Probably has nothing to do with the chip at all. ATI is just doing the proper thing and actually renaming the card when they do it.

But why not just use RV740 on the 4730? Why use RV740 on the 4770 and RV770 on the 4730? RV770 is more powerful, and more expensive to manufacture than RV740, why put it on a weaker card?

The only explanation I can think of is that they have too many defective RV770s, and want to use them up. Once they are used up, I have a feeling we will start to see RV740 based HD4730s.

Has nt anyone thought that the r770 will clock almost as it did on the 4830s???
And remember that was A LOOOOT!!!

Its been explained that stock on rv740 is drying out very fast, they dont have chips for these while stock of rv770's is more plentiful...

newtekie1But why not just use RV740 on the 4730? Why use RV740 on the 4770 and RV770 on the 4730? RV770 is more powerful, and more expensive to manufacture than RV740, why put it on a weaker card?

The only explanation I can think of is that they have too many defective RV770s, and want to use them up. Once they are used up, I have a feeling we will start to see RV740 based HD4730s.

I have a feeling they have lots of RV770's left -- I don't know about them being defective, though. "Superfluous," maybe.

And are we sure the RV770LE (which is what these chips are, I know they're not using the 800-shader model) is faster than the RV740? IIRC, the 4770 was almost the same speed as the 4830, just a little slower, which led me to believe that while 128-bit memory with GDDR5 was comparable to 256-bit with GDDR3, it isn't actually faster still. (However, you just make up for that by upping the clock speeds a bit).

Being that as it may, a 4730 with a RV770LE would still be slower than a 4770 with the RV740, if just because it'll probably be clocked lower.

I wonder what the pricing will be... this has potential to be the best price/performance video card.

mdm-adphI have a feeling they have lots of RV770's left -- I don't know about them being defective, though. "Superfluous," maybe.

And are we sure the RV770LE (which is what these chips are, I know they're not using the 800-shader model) is faster than the RV740? IIRC, the 4770 was almost the same speed as the 4830, just a little slower, which led me to believe that while 128-bit memory with GDDR5 was comparable to 256-bit with GDDR3, it isn't actually faster still. (However, you just make up for that by upping the clock speeds a bit).

Being that as it may, a 4730 with a RV770LE would still be slower than a 4770 with the RV740, if just because it'll probably be clocked lower.

RV770LE IS the 800 shader model. The extra shaders are just laser cut. They use defective 770's to make 770LE's. Which is what newtekie was basing his guess of AMD having a bunch of extra slightly defective 770's laying around.

i too think its all about production cost and whats in stock ... smaller bus means lower price and since RAM is cheap is hell, its the best to do so ...

and after hearing about the the new chips selling like hot cookies, its pretty reasonable

ATI and Nvidia don't laser lock cards anymore, they use fuses

KainXSATI and Nvidia don't laser lock cards anymore, they use fuses

That's not the important part of the conversation here. The point is, the cores are disabled, regardless of methods.

This card is going to be uber fail! WTF were they thinking on having a card that is supposed to perform worse than the 4770/4830 and putting two pci-e power connectors on it? :(

I am nearly 100% certain that the crowd this product would appeal to wouldn't have a compatible PSU for something like this.

newtekie1That was the point behind RV740, we are wondering why they are using RV770 instead of RV740 to make cards that spec wise fit RV740 perfectly. Why use the more expensive to manufacture RV770?

Same reason they use 65nm Phenom cores to make the X2 "Kuma" chips. They may have been more expensive to produce initially, but they have a surplus, while the same cannot be said of their newer 45nm (40nm, in this case) chips. Cutting their losses while they transition to the new process basically...

But why not just use RV740 on the 4730? Why use RV740 on the 4770 and RV770 on the 4730? RV770 is more powerful, and more expensive to manufacture than RV740, why put it on a weaker card?

With 160 shaders cut, yes, it should be nearly identical in performance. It will likely be clocked a good margin lower though, which again, helps them use up chips that otherwise could not be shipped under old SKU's. Plus, the more GDDR5 they buy, the bigger the discount they get. When you're the only manufacturer using the stuff, the size of your orders likely has a pretty noticeable impact not only on the pricing you get, but general market pricing as well.

The only explanation I can think of is that they have too many defective RV770s, and want to use them up. Once they are used up, I have a feeling we will start to see RV740 based HD4730s.

AMD doesn't seem to be in the rebranding business. If the supply of defective RV770's ran out and they were forced to use RV740 (ideal situation for them anyway), I have a feeling they'd phase out the 4730 and create a new 4750 SKU. Although given how long the 4830 has been around, and how resoundingly popular it was with the price-minded performance segment of the market, I'm surprised at how many defective chips they've got left. With that said, I'll now concede to those with greater knowledge of GPU design...

Is it possible for part of the memory bus to be defective? Could this strategy be somewhat like what they're doing with their 45nm CPU's, wherein the X3 chips have a defective core but full L3 cache, while 8xx X4 chips have all four cores but a crippled L3? If so, these could be a huge gold mine for them in that they're making use of chips that could not be marketed under the 4830 SKU, but can be under this new one without suffering from decrepit performance due to the bandwidth advantage of GDDR5. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but that would be interesting to say the least, and makes me wonder what nVidia/Intel do with all their defective silicon...

[EDIT] Thanks to devguy for pointing out the dual PCI-E connectors... Question: WTF? [/EDIT]
[EDIT] Also umm... Why is the 4730 getting aftermarket coolers before the 4770? I feel like they're purposefully holding manufacturers back on that, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. [/EDIT]

mdm-adph...... ATI is just doing the proper thing and actually renaming the card when they do it -- hopefully the shady vendors who like to market 128-bit 3850's with GDDR2 will follow along.

I realy wouldnt want to see card like that... :cry:
This new 4730 looks strange, but yes, if they have too much stock of 770, why not to get them out and make some cash from them.

@aj28
We are pretty much saying the same thing, if you read my original post, that is exactly what I am saying. The practice has been used for decades in the computer world.

What I don't agree with is the name. To me RV770 should be a HD48XX product, RV740 should be a HD47XX product, and RV730 should be a HD46XX product. If they are going to release another SKU using the RV770, call it something like HD4820...

EasoI realy wouldnt want to see card like that... :cry:
This new 4730 looks strange, but yes, if they have too much stock of 770, why not to get them out and make some cash from them.

Almost certain they make cards like that -- I know for a fact that 8800GT's were released with 128-bit memory (and I think GDDR2, too). It's a damn shame.

newtekie1@aj28
We are pretty much saying the same thing, if you read my original post, that is exactly what I am saying. The practice has been used for decades in the computer world.

What I don't agree with is the name. To me RV770 should be a HD48XX product, RV740 should be a HD47XX product, and RV730 should be a HD46XX product. If they are going to release another SKU using the RV770, call it something like HD4820...

Aye, 4820 would make more sense. However, at least ATI is rebranding a part to a lower number.