Monday, August 24th 2009
Radeon HD 5870 Aggressively Priced: Report
According to a fresh report by Donanim Haber, AMD's next performance graphics accelerator, the Radeon HD 5870, codenamed "Cypress" is expected to be aggressively priced, at US $299. At that price, it intends to be highly competitive against GeForce GTX 285 from NVIDIA. The secret-sauce behind the price could be the 40 nm fab process on which the GPU is being built, which allows upping transistor counts while maintaining significantly smaller die-sizes compared to 55 nm.
There is a great deal of uncertainty surrounding the specifications of the GPU, including what level of performance with existing application could it end up offering. Some sources, such as ChipHell, which are one of the first to leak pictures of components related to various Evergreen family products claim the Cypress GPU to have an almost 100% increase in stream processor counts compared to RV770, while others remain conservative expecting it to be around 50%. With this kind of a pricing, Cypress could trigger market-wide changes in GPU pricing, if it ends up with a good price/performance ratio at $299.
Cypress is expected to be launched on 22 September, close to two weeks after the company unveils the Evergreen family of DirectX 11 compliant GPUs on September 10. Market availability is expected in October. In related news from the same report, the enthusiast-grade accelerator that uses two of these GPUs, codenamed "Hemlock", is expected to be out in November.
There is a great deal of uncertainty surrounding the specifications of the GPU, including what level of performance with existing application could it end up offering. Some sources, such as ChipHell, which are one of the first to leak pictures of components related to various Evergreen family products claim the Cypress GPU to have an almost 100% increase in stream processor counts compared to RV770, while others remain conservative expecting it to be around 50%. With this kind of a pricing, Cypress could trigger market-wide changes in GPU pricing, if it ends up with a good price/performance ratio at $299.
Cypress is expected to be launched on 22 September, close to two weeks after the company unveils the Evergreen family of DirectX 11 compliant GPUs on September 10. Market availability is expected in October. In related news from the same report, the enthusiast-grade accelerator that uses two of these GPUs, codenamed "Hemlock", is expected to be out in November.
197 Comments on Radeon HD 5870 Aggressively Priced: Report
At least it's not as bad as the X1900XTX days. It retailed for $599 for a few months, and buying 2 for Crossfire meant $1200.
A quick history of cards and the RELEASE prices:
Geforce 2 GTS: $300
Geforce 2 Ultra: $500 (25% perf. increase, lack of competition since Geforce1---first single $500 GPU ever, for the leet only!)
Geforce 3: $350 (small perf. increase, DX8.0 features, zero competition)
Geforce 3 Ti500: $350 (marginal perf. increase, competition with Radeon 8500)
Radeon 8500: $300 (buggy drivers, slightly faster than the above when it's not buggy)
Geforce 4 Ti4600: $400 (50% perf. increase, DX8.1 features, 0 competition for a few months)
Radeon 9700 Pro: $450 (100% faster than the above, DX9.0b, 0 competition until the "virtual" 5800 Ultra)
Geforce 5800 Ultra: $500 (scarce quantities, therefore high demand, only DX9.0a)
Radeon 9800 Pro, Geforce 5900 Ultra: $400 (20% faster than the above)
Radeon 9800 XT, Geforce 5950 Ultra: $450 (15% faster than the above, 256MB RAM)
Radeon X800 XT, Geforce 6800 Ultra: $500 (released at same time summer 2004, 100% faster than the above, 6800Ultra had DX9.0c but was 10% slower than X800XT as most games didnt use SM3.0/HDR for a couple years)
Radeon X850XT: $500 (released a few months later, marginally faster.. PCI-E with SLI/Crossfire support was rolled-out, both 6800Ultra and X850XT remained at $450-$500 until summer 2005 with crazy demand during the Doom3 days)
Geforce 7800 GTX: $500 (out in summer 2005, 0 competition for 6 months, 100% faster than 6800Ultra)
Geforce 7800 GTX-512: $650 (scarce, super-fast-- 30% faster than the above)
Radeon X1800XT: $450 (finally out in Nov. 2005, a few weeks later and 20% slower than the above)
Radeon X1900XTX: $600 (Jan. 2006, 20% faster than 7800GTX-512, 0 competition for 4 months)
Geforce 7900GTX: $500 (April 2006, 10-15% slower than Radeon X1900XTX overall--much slower in newer shader-heavy games)
Geforce 7950GX2: $600 (July 2006, Nvidia's first dual-GPU card for retail (equivalent to two 7950GT chips)
Radeon X1950XTX: $450 (Sept 2006, 5% faster than X1900XTX due to GDDR4, hence the lower prices over time as the supply outstripped demand with great 90nm yields while many didnt like the noisy X1900XTX fan)
Geforce 8800GTX: $600 (Nov. 2006, DX10, virtually 0 competition for 16 months)
Geforce 8800Ultra: $650 (May 2007, somewhat scarce at first, 10% faster)
Radeon HD 2900XT: $450 (June 2007, 30% slower than 8800GTX overall)
Radeon HD 3870: $250 (Dec 2007, DX10.1 which was hardly used, still 30% slower than 8800GTX and also slower than pre-emptive $300 8800GT released in Nov)
Radeon HD 3870X2: $450 (Feb 2008, two 3870 chips, 100Mhz faster but with slower memory)
Geforce 9800GX2: $550 (Mar 2008, roughly equal to 2 8800GTS-512 chips, 30% faster than 3870X2)
Radeon HD 4870: $300 (June 2008, 50% faster than 8800 Ultra, 100% faster than 3870)
Geforce GTX 280: planned $550, paper-launch at the same time, 2 weeks later than HD4870 actual release, price reduced to $450 at first availability with $100 rebates.. hardly any faster than 4870 in a number of popular new games at the time, maybe 15% overall which did not impress much after the promises NV made)
You can easily figure which ones are the new generation cards by looking at the model numbers..
Was that a fun lesson of history?? :D:rockout:
At least the 5870 (which looks to be nearly twice as fast as the 4870) will not be in the $500+ range like many of the previous top-end cards. As the 4870X2 cards have been selling for around $400 nowadays, the 5870 which should be just as fast (and faster whenever Crossfire doesnt scale perfectly well), would do nicely for ATI at a similar price until there's some competition from NV.
It looks like the GT300 will be more of a leap from the GT200 than the GT200 was from the G80. There have been several indications that there will be some massive architectural changes along with a huge, gigantic increase in performance. However, I wouldn't hold my breath this year for GT300 cards. At over 500mm^2 on 40nm, the first spin of GT300 is most likely to not make it. A delay of at least 3-6 months is expected. If the first spin makes it (which is unlikely), we'd be seeing it in December at the earliest. March-July is more likely. It would probably be at least 40% faster than the 5870, so Nvidia would still price it at around $450-500 unless ATI pulls something out of the hat before then.
EDIT: Added dual-GPU cards to the above list.
It is big "thanks" to the popularity of dual-GPU cards that we do not really have to worry about seeing $500+ single-GPU cards. Ever since the release of 7950GX2 cards, we have not yet seen a single-GPU card for over $500 (except for 8800GTX/Ultra which was so far ahead of others at the time).
Why would ATi price the 5850 to be the same cost as a 5870X2 in terms of crossfire?
Why would they price the 5870 to be close to $200 more expensive than a 5870X2 in terms of crossfire?
ATi price their cards so that people look at crossfire as a viable solution.
A higher RRP doesn't actually equate to more profit. The higher the RRP the less cards they sell over all.
They're not going to price the 5800s in that way at all, they then won't have anything at the $200 price point.
They make far more profit at the $200 price point than they do at the $300 price point, especially in terms of volume.
ATi has a pricing scheme in place that it's stuck to for some time now. They've made announcements that this is their structure.
They don't want to release cards upwards of $550, so where does that leave the rest of the cards?
The most logical conclusion is that $550 is reserved for their X2 cards, so around about half of that will be their 'half an X2' card.
The numbers speak for themselves. We already know they like the price points of $199 and $299 for their mainstream highend.
To bring any other numbers in to the equation is 100% speculation with no substance to it what so ever.
A massive point that a lot of people aren't able to grasp is that the price you or I pay for a card is irrelevant to how well they will do, as we're enthusiasts and more likely to spend more.
What matters is the price points they sell them at, not how much they sell them for.
They completely understand the market that they're aiming for.
They've chose these numbers for this very reason.
R&D costs are sunk, they're a cost that's not going to be 'recouped' in a sense.
Once R&D is done the money is spent, what the focus then leads to is making sure the cards cost as little as possible to manufacture while selling a load of them.
That's the only way they recover R&D costs as well as making a profit.
I spent $599 on an X1900XTX the day it was released. It remained at that price 6 months after launch (at least at CompUSA). The trading/selling price was still roughly $500 on ebay and on the forums, but then declined rapidly over the summer to $350 perhaps due to the oversupply thanks to a well-refined 90nm process and the release of 7950GX2 cards. Anyways, the point is that ATI (AMD) should be smart enough to price their chips according to the demand and the supply available. At first, the supply will be low, and the demand high, especially for a 5870 card with nearly twice as many trannies as a 4890 (which should be faster than a 4870X2 overall especially since it does not rely on Crossfire). Let's just say that the price range of $379-399 for a 5870 is a good business move by AMD, at least until the 5870X2 or GT300 is released. If it's really true, I would definitely wager with 10:1 odds on the $379 side instead of the $399 side.
Countdown: 7 days left before we should be seeing anything formally announced by AMD, right?
I really hope ATi doesn't go too over the edge on the prices on these cards.
But I guess all we have are guess' and rumors until AMD officially releases the price list.
You pay a couple of GBP for milk, and you pay a couple USD for milk.
Now if it's £399, and then $299 respectively, there's a problem.
forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1329655&postcount=2207
Also, it takes time to make new drivers, and actually have enough cards to cover whatever brackets theyre releasing into, the chips, and then the partners, and then shipping them out in sufficient numbers
More like-
HD 5850: £230
HD 5870: £270+
HD 5870X2: £extortinate.
Were are you kylew :p
I imagine it will be around the same... I'm hoping these are not the prices ....
Will pick up a HD48 card and a nicer monitor if they're to expensive.
It's still BS, plus you weren't saying that any way, you were saying $299 would be £299 in 'rip off Britain'... :rolleyes:
Have you not seen the power color leak?
Guess what happened when the 4800s were release? The 4850 was $199 and the 4870 was $299.
Guess what I bought my 4850 for? £120, that's US price PLUS VAT.
Seriously Tigger, I don't understand your intentions, you even proved yourself wrong by linking me to a GTX295 price as 'evidence' that we get ripped off only to be proven wrong.
If the standard HD 5870 is 299 then I will buy it , of course in euros , that means 240E price range and that's the standard one I am giving for. 379 or 399 , that's like 350E range , wtf? What even X2 , over 400 , That would not be ATI anymore then, hyping the price.
Some people talking ATI making 399 price range that is really BS , I would never buy that you think Im stupid , rather wait , IF REALLY the cost goes to 299 after X2 launch but that's months to month to wait , either way , don't need to buy at release at all.
Well my brother plans to buy a new custom highend PC(1100E price range) this december year ready for Win 7 and Modern Warfare 2 , looks like 2-3 month after reference X2 will come , but im not sure into getting X2 for him , price defiantely over $399 range , if that's true that has been reported for november X2 release maybe? That would be good to see hows reference prices are doing , but as you see HD 4870 stayed at 199E or $299 , only those importer costs went down about 20-40E throughout the time. But All in All , the best time to buy a PC is december, as i mentioned , waiting , a great overview and lower prices plus windows 7 hotfixes and graphics drivers improved rather than at release time.
Seriously, grow up, for some one who apparently doesn't care if they're wrong, you really do care.
I've already proven you wrong on more than one occasion. You tried to catch me out with that GTX295, that proved you wrong too.
Maybe you want to feel hard done by, but the 'rip-off Britain' is largely a myth that people peddle on and on about.
We do get ripped off in some circumstances, but it's clear when we aren't.
What you're stating is something that hasn't happened, so for me to use previous releases as evidence gives my claims a lot more weight than your claims.