Saturday, December 17th 2011

The Witcher 2 Contains Secret Sauce To 'Catch 100% Of Pirates'

Yes, really - 100% of those pesky "pirates" will be brought to book! The game's studio, CD Projekt RED (CDP Red) isn't letting on how it's doing so, either, claiming it's a "trade secret" and not giving out the name of the external company that's implementing the anti-piracy technology, claiming that to do so would damage their business. Seriously. The problem with identifying a dodgy copy of something is that the main info they have to track them down, are the IP addresses of the suspect. This has been shown many times over now, not to be a reliable tracker of who's doing what. At the most, it will pinpoint the account holder that it relates to, in some cases. However, this outfit reckons they've nailed this dealbreaking problem once and for all - and without any evidence on how they go about it. Snake oil, perhaps? The Polish company have therefore been sending out legal notices to thousands of suspects in Germany, chosen because this country has some of the strictest copyright laws in Europe. Presumably, they must be leaning on the ISPs to hand over customers' physical street addresses, although this isn't made clear, but read on for how this might be accomplished. In an email to PC Gamer, CDP Red VP Michael Nowakowski made the following statement:
We're addressing only 100% confirmed piracy causes that are 100% possible to prove. We are not worried about tracking the wrong people. As this is the trade secret of the company working on this, I cannot share it. However, we investigated the subject before we decided on this move, and we aware of some past complications (the famous Davenport case). The method used here is targeting only 100% confirmed piracy cases. No innocent person was targeted with the letter so far. At least we have not received any information as of now which would indicate something like that.
Notice how the Davenport case is "famous" rather than "infamous" - they actually went down in flames over their extortion tactics. Also notice how they covered themselves by saying "At least we have not received any information as of now which would indicate something like that." So, they could be targeting the innocent after all, they just haven't heard about it. Nice.

So, there appears to be two options to how this tracking technology works:

1 There is no technology and this is just smoke and mirrors (with a dash of snake oil) designed to extort marks into coughing up money to make CD Projekt go away

2 They really do have some "tracking technology" in their games. Now, what could this be? Well, as they're not telling us, it's only right and proper to be highly suspicious of what it actually does and to put it in the same class as common criminal malware. This is because the only logical way that they can track the individual in any semi-reliable manner, is to lift personal information off their computer. Let's speculate on how this could be achieved. It would include stuff such as email logins, bank logins, Facebook logins, network traffic sniffing to read the contents of highly personal and confidential messages and any other login where personal information such as a name and address might be kept. You name it, they might be doing it. This kind of activity is of course highly illegal everywhere, so no wonder they'd want to keep quiet about it. It makes traditional draconian DRM schemes such as SecuROM and the like seem like a walk in the park by comparison, doesn't it?

So, do you really want to install software that does some or all of this on your computer, just to play a lousy video game? Obviously, that's a resounding NO!

Regardless of how they track down suspects, this exercise is extortion with a legal veneer, pure and simple. This is because there haven't been any independent studies showing that "piracy" reduces profits and makes companies go to the wall - they have all been big media industry sponsored. However, there are several independent studies that show it does nothing, or actually enhances sales by indirect means, such as reputation spread by word of mouth. Of course, the powerful media cartels based in America, are able to buy government reps all over the world to make them pass corrupt laws as if all this "piracy" really was hurting them - three strikes, PROTECT IP & SOPA are just three examples. Consider the blockbusting sales here and here of Modern Warfare 3 recently. This will be the most "pirated" game of all, yet it still outsold all of Hollywood put together...

There is of course, one sure fire and legal way to beat a company that tries such dirty tricks: the boycott. Don't buy their products and don't pirate them, then laugh as you watch them go under (all the while still blaming alleged "piracy", of course). I personally wholeheartedly recommend this course of action. Once again www.techdirt.com is recommended as the site to go to, as they expose abuses like this daily.
Sources: TG Daily, PC Gamer
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345 Comments on The Witcher 2 Contains Secret Sauce To 'Catch 100% Of Pirates'

#201
reverze
right or wrong, they will lose money over this. alot of people bought the game cause it was good , well supported, and no DRM in the end. Thats why they made these huge profits.

These lawsuits wont scare anyone outside the USA. And alot of goodwil will be lost.
Remember Ubisoft with their uncracked superstrong DRM? As they said themselves, piracy was annihalited for those games. But they had to remove it not so long ago cause they actually lost alot of money on all those games with the DRM no matter the quality of those games.
Posted on Reply
#202
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
KreijCan we shift the topic a little?
We've disucssed piracy to no end in a bajiliion threads, but we never really all tossed in our thoughts about refunds or returns.

If I buy something (physical) that I don't like or does not meet my expectations I can usually return it.
That's a little difficult with virtual items as they could have been copied before return.
What do you think would be a fair return policy for both the buyers and sellers in this case?
I think with something like Steam which has account-based DRM, they should certainly offer refunds - perhaps with a 3 or 7 day cooling off period, after which you can't claim a refund. They should also allow unrestricted trading between members, otherwise they are denying people's first sale rights.

I'm pretty sure that one or two other platforms out there support this (the refunds at least) although I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head.
Posted on Reply
#203
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
apparently not paying for something and bitching about it has become a "right." the end of society. go die in a fire.
Posted on Reply
#204
entropy13
KreijCan we shift the topic a little?
We've disucssed piracy to no end in a bajiliion threads, but we never really all tossed in our thoughts about refunds or returns.

If I buy something (physical) that I don't like or does not meet my expectations I can usually return it.
That's a little difficult with virtual items as they could have been copied before return.
What do you think would be a fair return policy for both the buyers and sellers in this case?
Remove 3rd party, reduce release date prices to $10-$15, make the prevailing prices (after 6 months I guess) be in the $5-$10 range. Likelihood of wanting refunds are reduced because the prices they were bought in the first place were reduced.
Easy Rhinoapparently not paying for something and bitching about it has become a "right." the end of society. go die in a fire.
That by itself cannot be the end of society. It could be even argued that such developments are just changes in society.

It's more likely "the end of society as Easy Rhino sees society as."
Posted on Reply
#205
Kreij
Senior Monkey Moderator
qubitI think with something like Steam which has account-based DRM, they should certainly offer refunds - perhaps with a 3 or 7 day cooling off period, after which you can't claim a refund. They should also allow unrestricted trading between members, otherwise they are denying people's first sale rights.

I'm pretty sure that one or two other platforms out there support this (the refunds at least) although I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head.
This may work for something like Steam, where they can track the hours you've played to see if yoiu were really just "testing the waters", but what about retail purchases that do not use Steamworks as their DRM?

There is also the issue that some games, though quite good, do not contain a lot of hours of content. What is a fair measure of "trying to see if you like it"?
Posted on Reply
#206
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
entropy13Remove 3rd party, reduce release date prices to $10-$15, make the prevailing prices (after 6 months I guess) be in the $5-$10 range. Likelihood of wanting refunds are reduced because the prices they were bought in the first place were reduced.



That by itself cannot be the end of society. It could be even argued that such developments are just changes in society.

It's more likely "the end of society as Easy Rhino sees society as."
yes, that's right. society can exist when legal theft exists. seriously now.....:wtf:
Posted on Reply
#207
entropy13
Easy Rhinoyes, that's right. society can exist when legal theft exists. seriously now.....:wtf:
Society is shaped by the norms adopted by its members. Also, society as a whole can also impose norms upon its individuals. Norms does not need "legality" per se, although technically speaking "rule of law" is a norm by itself.

Although "law" is a norm of society, that does not necessarily mean that it is superior to other norms already simply by the fact of it being a "lawful" norm. Slavery was a norm as well, for example.
Posted on Reply
#208
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
entropy13Society is shaped by the norms adopted by its members. Also, society as a whole can also impose norms upon its individuals. Norms does not need "legality" per se, although technically speaking "rule of law" is a norm by itself.

Although "law" is a norm of society, that does not necessarily mean that it is superior to other norms already simply by the fact of it being a "lawful" norm. Slavery was a norm as well, for example.
that is irrelevant. if legal theft exists then society cannot function. history shows this to be true over the course of 3000 years. maybe they don't teach this in high school anymore.
Posted on Reply
#209
reverze
the thing is with muisc games and movies is that it costs a set amount of money to produce. And then it ( lets cut out the internet for a second ) is/was sold a piece of plastic with a couple million holes punched in it. They sell you something worth in its physical form around 10-15 cents for 60 dollars / euros if its a game.

That is a massive .... profit or ripoff depending how you see it. it costs millions no doubt to produce games these days but in the end they sell you "air", and when you download you copy the dots in plastic on someone elses PC that come to you through fiber optic impulses and are set in the same order on your harddrive with magnetic impulses.....

Its a copy, legal or illegal set aside. If you have been brought up in a world without copyright and never been brainwashed with the whole "omg piracy is stealing!" then its very difficult to have moral objection to copy data of any kind, and to justify anyone who ever did that to pay 1000 euros for every copy they made without explicit permission of the "owner" who was the first to punch holes in plastic in a certain order.........

food for thought
Posted on Reply
#211
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
reverzethe thing is with muisc games and movies is that it costs a set amount of money to produce. And then it ( lets cut out the internet for a second ) is/was sold a piece of plastic with a couple million holes punched in it. They sell you something worth in its physical form around 10-15 cents for 60 dollars / euros if its a game.

That is a massive .... profit or ripoff depending how you see it. it costs millions no doubt to produce games these days but in the end they sell you "air", and when you download you copy the dots in plastic on someone elses PC that come to you through fiber optic impulses and are set in the same order on your harddrive with magnetic impulses.....

Its a copy, legal or illegal set aside. If you have been brought up in a world without copyright and never been brainwashed with the whole "omg piracy is stealing!" then its very difficult to have moral objection to copy data of any kind, and to justify anyone who ever did that to pay 1000 euros for every copy they made without explicit permission of the "owner" who was the first to punch holes in plastic in a certain order.........

food for thought
that is childish logic. based on your logic you would have a software developer sell one copy for $100,000 and 10,000 copies for $10. obviously supply and demand does not work like that. do better!
Posted on Reply
#212
entropy13
Easy Rhinothat is irrelevant. if legal theft exists then society as we know it right now, and as we have seen it in its other, previous forms, cannot function.
Fixed.
Easy Rhinohistory shows this to be true over the course of 3000 years.
How about over the course of 10,000 years? :rolleyes:

Regardless, since we are talking about society, and a "norm", the only certain way we could ever know what would really happen is to...know what would really happen in the future...by getting to that future.

Pre-historic society is significantly less "developed" when looked at by modern viewers, but since there is the absence of the norms of "legality" and "theft" as we know them right now today, it doesn't necessarily mean that society then ceased to function. They just functioned differently.

No concept of theft since among communities property is communal, and inter-community interaction was quite rare until the end of the last Ice Age.

Even in our pre-colonial period for example, because each barangay are communal, meaning everything is owned by the community, the concept of "theft" as we know it today simply does not exist. And if another barangay "steals" property of one barangay, it is not "theft" but an "act of war." Datus (communal leaders) are appointed by barangay elders by virtue of their capability of defending the barangay, not by virtue of having the most property, the most influence among the people, etc.
Posted on Reply
#213
reverze
Easy Rhinothat is childish logic. based on your logic you would have a software developer sell one copy for $100,000 and 10,000 copies for $10. obviously supply and demand does not work like that. do better!
i am not argueing about price, i am argueing about one of the basics of economy which is added value which doesnt go for music / game / movies.
Posted on Reply
#214
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
I year ago this thread would not have existed. All it does is making the forums worse.
Posted on Reply
#215
entropy13
FrickI year ago this thread would not have existed. All it does is making the forums worse.
Technically you're right since this was started in March 3, 2011.
Posted on Reply
#216
Kreij
Senior Monkey Moderator
If you feel that changes at TPU need to be discussed, please make a thread in the Comments and Fedback section, not in the thread itself.
Please do not use the "What's wrong with the forums" thread as that is not its purpose.
Start a new one.

Just a tip from yer ol' Uncle Kreij.
Posted on Reply
#217
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
pantherx12If you took his computer he'd be pissed, if you came round and copied his computer I'm sure he wouldn't give a shit.

( which is what piracy is)
If I designed and built the computer myself hells yes I would get pissed. Likewise with a painting. Lets say you have an exhibition with your works on display and someone came in and copied your works in every small detail. He didn't take a photo, he copied it. I'd get mad as heck.
KreijIf you feel that changes at TPU need to be discussed, please make a thread in the Comments and Fedback section, not in the thread itself.
Please do not use the "What's wrong with the forums" thread as that is not its purpose.
Start a new one.

Just a tip from yer ol' Uncle Kreij.
I'll just make a pirate thread instead. It's obviously OK.
Posted on Reply
#218
saeoh
Easy Rhinowould it be ethical to sneek into a movie theater without paying because you don't know what to expect. and only pay based on whether it met your expectations? of course not. pirates, burn in a fire.
Well, here, we can get full refund of a movie within 30min :D
KreijIf I buy something (physical) that I don't like or does not meet my expectations I can usually return it.
That's a little difficult with virtual items as they could have been copied before return.
What do you think would be a fair return policy for both the buyers and sellers in this case?
Either good demos(have to give same performance as full game) or refund within certain time frame (like 3-4hours or next day morning)
Posted on Reply
#219
entropy13
FrickIf I designed and built the computer myself hells yes I would get pissed. Likewise with a painting. Lets say you have an exhibition with your works on display and someone came in and copied your works in every small detail. He didn't take a photo, he copied it. I'd get mad as heck.
Well, ever since painting began, "imitation painting" began too. IIRC Time had an article talking about the "imitation painting" industry of China.
Posted on Reply
#220
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
KreijThis may work for something like Steam, where they can track the hours you've played to see if yoiu were really just "testing the waters", but what about retail purchases that do not use Steamworks as their DRM?
Indeed, that's why I specified an account-based distribution service. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the answer is - this is the proverbial grey area and obviously some people would abuse it.
KreijThere is also the issue that some games, though quite good, do not contain a lot of hours of content. What is a fair measure of "trying to see if you like it"?
I guess this isn't so hard to figure out. A couple of examples.

For a single player game with a linear story line such as Half-Life 2* it will be split into chapters or sections. The developer will know how much they want to allow the game to be played and could allow only the first two or three chapters/sections to be played while allowing a refund. When this point is reached, an alert could pop up warning that progress beyond this point will forfeit the refund. Also, a time-out of say, two weeks would be reasonable in which to decide.

For games that just have a deathmatch mode perhaps, like the Unreal Tournament series, perhaps they could be time limited and/or limited to certain maps and game modes.

There's lots of variables and possibilities that could be adjusted here and these are just two possibilities.

The descriptions above sound very much like demo games, don't they - and they are. I think we all remember a while back when the big games houses said they would stop doing demos, because it was "very expensive" to make them. What BS. They're just greedy and don't want their games to be scrutinized before purchase, in case people realize what a crock their buying into. No, what should happen, is the return of free demos, like we used to get. If one can have a decent free demo, then it becomes reasonable not to allow refunds. One modern game that does have a demo mode is Bulletstorm - and more power to the developer.

*Ancient example lol, but it's my favourite linear shooter of all time. :rockout:
Posted on Reply
#221
Kreij
Senior Monkey Moderator
@Frick : I know you hate everything. I've know it for years.
If you have a gripe, speak up in the right place and please tell people to do the same.
You're Frick, you will always be Frick, but your OUR Frick and I would really not feel comfortable if I did not think there was a Gremlin under the bridge every time I walked over the stream.

Carry on.
Posted on Reply
#222
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
entropy13Well, ever since painting began, "imitation painting" began too. IIRC Time had an article talking about the "imitation painting" industry of China.
Totally true, but I'm not sure I would be ok with that. It's the same with software really.

Anyway, screw it.
Posted on Reply
#223
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
FrickI year ago this thread would not have existed. All it does is making the forums worse.
Not at all. Remember, I have written a hard-hitting news story about real events happening in the real world. Would you really rather be kept in the dark about it? Would you really want to buy this game, being ignorant of any potential spying of your personal data that these clowns may be doing to you, all to serve their own interests only? You'd be stupid to want to. Yeah, I directly called for a boycott over this in the story and I'm proud of it.

So, what about the websites I used as my sources - are they also wrong for publishing such a story? What about all the other websites that covered it all over the internet? Should TPU be too timid to cover such a controversial subject just to keep the forums sickly sweet, "happy" - and boring? Or should TPU grow a pair and cover these issues? Of course it should and I know that a lot of people on TPU agree with my viewpoint, too. :toast:

So quit yer whingin' and enjoy the news stories and the forums that hang off them. :)
Posted on Reply
#224
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
reverzei am not argueing about price, i am argueing about one of the basics of economy which is added value which doesnt go for music / game / movies.
value based on demand, not on supply. if an artist thinks that only 1 copy will sell because 10,000 will be stolen then that artist will sell their work for 100,000. basic economics. sheesh, kids these days.
Posted on Reply
#225
INSTG8R
Vanguard Beta Tester
I didn't go thru the whole thread but I have pretty much every AAA title out this year and paid for them all. This title I "tried" first(and even the few titles I have "tried" this year I ended up purchasing) But this one I am glad I didn't buy it. I was bored after the tutorial and promptly deleted it... Come at me CD Projekt!
Not my kind of game and maybe for other folks it may be good but IMO CERTAINLY not a game to be making this kind of big deal out of.
Posted on Reply
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