Tuesday, December 13th 2016

AMD RYZEN Demo Event - Beats $1,100 8-Core i7-6900K, With Lower TDP

At their Austin, Texas "New Horizon" Event, AMD introduced us to live "ZEN" chips working full-tilt, showing us what AMD's passion and ingenuity managed to achieve. The "New Horizon" event was a celebration to what AMD sees as another one of those special, breakthrough moments for a company: after starting work on "ZEN" 4 years ago in 2012 as a complete new design. The focus: building a great machine, whilst increasing IPC by 40% over their previous architecture, at the same power constraints; and to create a smart machine, which could sense and adapt to environment and applications so it improves over time. The company's verdicts: "ZEN" met or exceeded their goals, with the desktop PC market being home to the very first "ZEN" product.

According to AMD's CEO Dr. Lisa Su, AMD's event was named "New Horizon" as a reference to AMD's vision in the computing space: that they're on a journey to bring a new generation of processor technology, and customers towards a new horizon of computing. Their intention? To directly connect with fans who love PC gaming, whilst doing what AMD does best - pushing the envelope on performance, power, frame-rates and technology. AMD also flaunted their renewed faith in gaming, with it being on the company's DNA and passion, whilst revisiting the old memory lane, reminiscing on the Athlon Thunderbird, the world's first chip to break the 1 GHz barrier; the launch of their first 64-bit processor; and breaking the 1 TFLOP barrier in computing power with their HD 4850 and 4870 gaming GPUs.
AMD confirmed that CPUs based on their "ZEN" micro-architecture will carry the brand "Ryzen" - a play on the "ZEN" architecture's focus on balance, high performance and low power, while introducing new features. Ryzen is AMD's take of a processor that is both powerful in purpose, and efficient in design, and it symbolizes the power of "ZEN" reaching the next horizon in computing. They will do so by starting with an 8-core, 16-thread, SMT-enabled, 3.4 GHz+ base clock and 20MB combined cache new high-performance CPU, leveraging all the improvements baked into AMD's new AM4 platform (with 3.4 GHz apparently being the lowest frequency a Ryzen, consumer-level desktop solution will carry).
To prove their words and commitment to Ryzen's performance, AMD showcased the chip's prowess in a Blender test, pitting a Ryzen CPU at 3.4 GHz base clock (without Boost), with the consumer market's only other 8-core, 16-thread CPU in the Intel i7 6900K, at its stock 3.2 GHz base clock, with Boost enabled and no adjustments, "straight out of the box". The verdict: Ryzen matched the 6900K's performance. Dr. Lisa Su was quick to point out the 6900K's pricing at $1100, though she left an intentional silence at the point where she could have made a bombastic pricing announcement for Ryzen - perhaps keeping her cards close to her chest so as to not allow Intel to figure out any pricing changes in their products (if any), should Ryzen prove deserving of such a response. But the bottom line, and the home-run hit by Lisa Su, was the announcement that Ryzen was able to match Intel's performance with 45 W less TDP - 95 W TDP on Ryzen against the 140 W TDP on Intel's 6900K. In another test, this time a Handbrake transcoding demo, Ryzen transcoded a video in 54 seconds, against 59 seconds on Intel's 6900K processor.
Again at 3.4 GHz, Ryzen was shown "beating the game frame-rates of a Core i7 6900K playing Battlefield 1 at 4K resolution, with each CPU paired with an Nvidia Titan X GPU". Not drawing any more attention than needs to be drawn towards the usage of an NVIDIA solution at their own event (which was puzzling, since AMD did show a Ryzen CPU and a VEGA-based graphics cards running Star Wars Battlefront's as-of-yet unreleased Rogue One DLC at over 60fps in 4K), we didn't actually see any reported frame-rated on the Battlefield 1 demo - only that the Ryzen-based system offered considerably less frame-skipping than the Intel solution, with the expected effects that has on the gaming experience.
AMD also announced what constitutes part of Ryzen's beating heart: their SenseMI technology, which includes "Neural Net Prediction" - an artificial intelligence neural network that learns to predict what future pathway an application will take based on past runs; "Smart Prefetch", which drinks from the "Neural Net Prediction", anticipating the data an app needs and having it ready when needed (with these two features alone being responsible for 1/4 of Ryzen's performance uplift, according to Lisa Su). Additionally, AMD announced Ryzen's "Pure Power" and "Precision Boost" features: more than "100 embedded sensors with accuracy to the millivolt, milliwatt, and single degree level of temperature enable optimal voltage, clock frequency, and operating mode with minimal energy consumption", controlling each part of the chip, independently, in milliseconds, leveraging "smart logic that monitors integrated sensors and optimizes clock speeds, in increments as small as 25MHz, at up to a thousand times a second". Finishing the pentad of new features was the "Extended Frequency Range" (XFR), a temperature-based boost function where the processor knows what temperature it's operating at, enabling higher clock speeds as the system gets cooler (and vice-versa, we'd expect, towards the 3.4 GHz base clock).
At the event, AMD showed Ryzen running a VR demo, as well as delivering performance in raytracing, with physically based shaders and materials, HDR, and a grand total of 53 million polygons in a single model. Interestingly, AMD also showed their Ryzen CPU against an Intel 6700K processor overlocked towards an unspecified frequency, comparing the chip's performance in streaming DOTA 2: where the 6700K showed severe frame-skipping on the streaming screen, but Ryzen handled it beautifully.
As a sendoff, AMD's CEO Lisa SU mentioned that Ryzen will be on desktop and notebook solutions (leaving out the server market, which could mean a brand distinction between both solutions", whilst reaffirming that Ryzen's Q1 launch is completely on track, from the only company that has both high-performance CPUs and GPUs. And as an appetizer, the good doctor did say that Ryzen's performance will only improve until their promised launch.
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205 Comments on AMD RYZEN Demo Event - Beats $1,100 8-Core i7-6900K, With Lower TDP

#51
xkm1948
Also you get to remember, personal computing is not just about gaming, A LOT of office/research computation relies on good multi threaded CPU performance.
Posted on Reply
#52
Blueberries
qubitIf the capability is there, then the apps will come. Saying what's the point just highlights the stagnation of current technology. It's about time it moved on.
It's not "what's the point," it's "is it worth the cost?" More cores isn't free, it comes with a larger TDP.

We've had 64C+ processors for years now (and dual-CPU motherboards!), 8C/16T is easy to do, but only a small percentage of PC users can take advantage of it. Keep in mind there's also a severe diminishing return, and it doesn't take long before more threads is negligible at best and detrimental at worst (except in specific computational tasks e.g., deep learning, AI).

Intel and AMD could also easily introduce add-in PCIe cards that would effectively add an additional 32+ parallel hyper/SMT threads , but why?
Posted on Reply
#53
Prima.Vera
Seems like all sites are spreading the same crappy CLICK BAIT after only one test made by AMD...
Posted on Reply
#54
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
BlueberriesIt's not "what's the point," it's "is it worth the cost?" More cores isn't free, it comes with a larger TDP.

We've had 64C+ processors for years now, 8C/16T is easy to do, but only a small percentage of PC users can take advantage of it. Keep in mind there's also a severe diminishing return, and it doesn't take long before more threads is negligible at best and detrimental at worst.

Intel and AMD could also easily introduce add-in PCIe cards that would effectively add an additional 32+ parallel hyper/SMT threads , but why?
Some of this is correct, however on the TDP not better written software using more threads could accomplish more work with less clockspeed and a lower tdp. Ask my 105w xeon 12 core.
Posted on Reply
#55
Blueberries
cdawallSome of this is correct, however on the TDP not better written software using more threads could accomplish more work with less clockspeed and a lower tdp. Ask my 105w xeon 12 core.
That entirely depends on the software, not everything benefits from more threads, and 8 threads is a lot!

I'm not suggesting there's no point in 12C CPUs, but most mainstream, real-world, students, average-joes, gamers, call it whatever you want-- they're going to prefer a lower TDP / footprint and higher clock/boost speed.
Posted on Reply
#56
s17speedex
against an Intel 6700K processor overlocked towards an unspecified frequency,
4.5ghz; 47:22 min in video
Posted on Reply
#57
evernessince
xkm1948VEGA will be a faster clocked slightly efficiency bumped Fiji. Not gonna magically do way better in old DX11/OpenGL games, but will be great in DX12/Vulkan/VR applications.
Uh, no it won't. Why in the hell would AMD not design VEGA based off of Polaris. "Oh hey guys, let's base our top end GPU off our last gen cards", said no one ever. That would be called a refresh.

No, VEGA is Polaris + HBM2 + Various other improvements from VEGA (like improved shaders).

FYI AMD's DX 11 performance has gotten better with polaris and the release of their ReLive drivers. If you haven't checked, the RX 480 is now on par with the GTX 1060 is DX 11.
Posted on Reply
#58
Camm
evernessinceUh, no it won't. Why in the hell would AMD not design VEGA based off of Polaris. "Oh hey guys, let's base our top end GPU off our last gen cards", said no one ever. That would be called a refresh.

No, VEGA is Polaris + HBM2 + Various other improvements from VEGA (like improved shaders).

FYI AMD's DX 11 performance has gotten better with polaris and the release of their ReLive drivers. If you haven't checked, the RX 480 is now on par with the GTX 1060 is DX 11.
Being fair, you would expect it to be equal in DX11 since the 480 die is about 15% larger than the 1060 and with another 64 bit on the memory bus :p.
Posted on Reply
#59
evernessince
CammBeing fair, you would expect it to be equal in DX11 since the 480 die is about 15% larger than the 1060 and with another 64 bit on the memory bus :p.
Actually the larger memory bus on the RX 480 is probably what takes up that extra die space. Nvidia often goes small on the bus size as it can be very space intensive on the GPU. It's also why you see Nvidia cards start to drop in performance compared to their AMD counterparts, just look at the GTX 970.
Posted on Reply
#60
ShurikN
qubitWow, seriously? :eek: Do you know which ones they are?
Isn't Doom (Vulkan) insane on the cpu front?
Posted on Reply
#61
Ascalaphus
thesmokingmanI dunno if I would say beat, more like match in one specific scenario.
You're missing the bigger picture:
It will cost LESS than a i7-6900k as well.
Posted on Reply
#62
efikkan
BlueberriesWe haven't been stuck, there's just no demand. What "mainstream" application uses 16 threads? WinRAR?
And you are just using a single application at the time?
There are OS subsystems, multiple drivers, a web browser and some other stuff you are running, perhaps an anti-virus program and a pile of other "hidden" crap running in the background, in addition to the task you are "working" on. Even if your little game only uses 3-4 threads, more cores will help reduce stutter and other problems, even if it doesn't show up in average framerate benchmarks. Anything less than 6 (real) cores for a power-user today is not going to cut it.
Posted on Reply
#63
renz496
TheLaughingManYeah, no. The FX-9590 has never been anywhere near $1k. I think it maxed out at $250.
i said initially. it doesn't last long though where AMD end up "dropping" the price massively just after a few months.
Two different UK-based online and retail outlets were showing the FX-9590 for sale for as low as £279 or $434 USD. That is a big price drop from £699 rate ($1008 USD) and obviously is causing quite a stir in the community. This puts the latest entries in the world of AMD FX just above the other parts like the standard FX-8350 in terms of cost which was definitely NOT the case in June or July.
www.pcper.com/news/Processors/AMD-FX-9590-50-GHz-processor-getting-price-drop
Posted on Reply
#64
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
BlueberriesThat entirely depends on the software, not everything benefits from more threads, and 8 threads is a lot!

I'm not suggesting there's no point in 12C CPUs, but most mainstream, real-world, students, average-joes, gamers, call it whatever you want-- they're going to prefer a lower TDP / footprint and higher clock/boost speed.
Most average Joe CPU users can happily use onboard video and a pentium. I could care less about average Joe I am enthusiast Chris.
Posted on Reply
#65
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
All I'd like to say is good on AMD and their new tech.

Running with no boost clock, and matching, and then beating the intel chip just made my week!

Come on AMD give us a February launch because my tax refund will be burning a hole in my pockets.

RYZEN is such cool name, I believe there's going to be a lot of sad intel users in he very near future hmm.
And I don't think this is hype like the bulldozer was. I honestly believe the hype is real this time :peace:
Posted on Reply
#66
renz496
CammI don't think AMD will price this high - it has too much to gain from regaining market and mindshare to fuck around with the sort of margins Intel keeps gouging.
that's what people said with 7970 as well. at this point i will just waiting until the actual hardware hit the market.
Posted on Reply
#67
renz496
cdawallNo people price gouged them pre-release at 800+, the CPU was listed by AMD was $300-370 depending if you got the CLC with it.

I purchased my 9370 at release for something like 269.99
nope. there is no price gouging. back then AMD definitely intend to sell 9590 for around $900-$1k for being some kind of special edition processor. the pricing did not meant to reflect to other FX-9xxx series processor. also if i remember correctly AMD did not sell the processor directly to any customer. only exclusive to system boutique at that premium pricing. but it really did not last that long.
Posted on Reply
#68
renz496
evernessinceUh, no it won't. Why in the hell would AMD not design VEGA based off of Polaris. "Oh hey guys, let's base our top end GPU off our last gen cards", said no one ever. That would be called a refresh.

No, VEGA is Polaris + HBM2 + Various other improvements from VEGA (like improved shaders).

FYI AMD's DX 11 performance has gotten better with polaris and the release of their ReLive drivers. If you haven't checked, the RX 480 is now on par with the GTX 1060 is DX 11.
no. not really. you guys need to carefully look how hardware canucks made the conclusion. RX480 closing the gap with to GTX1060 in DX11 using average combined score. hardware canucks adds more tittle that favoring AMD card so that affect the average score towards AMD. when they present that numbers it doesn't mean that now RX480 are as fast as GTX1060 in every DX11 tittles.
Posted on Reply
#69
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
renz496nope. there is no price gouging. back then AMD definitely intend to sell 9590 for around $900-$1k for being some kind of special edition processor. the pricing did not meant to reflect to other FX-9xxx series processor. also if i remember correctly AMD did not sell the processor directly to any customer. only exclusive to system boutique at that premium pricing. but it really did not last that long.
I purchased mine on release from amazon. Not exactly a boutique.
Posted on Reply
#70
renz496
cdawallI purchased mine on release from amazon. Not exactly a boutique.
as i said that exclusive deal did not last long.
First, according to AMD the FX-9590 was never intended to be sold as an OEM part and rather was supposed to ship only in pre-built systems from companies like iBuyPower or in bundles that include a motherboard and cooler along with the processor. If these bundles were slow sellers though it seems plausible that the retailers would find ways to expire the bundle program and "accidentally" start selling the processors alone. Based on photos from ReviewBros that appears to be the case.
As for the idea of a "price drop", things are just more complicated than that. AMD tells me that because it was never intended to sell as an OEM part any pricing changes are not a result of AMD's demands. Honestly I don't know why AMD is so opposed to just saying there has been a price drop other than the negative reaction of the initial launch buyers; but that is always the case in the enthusiast market.
www.pcper.com/news/Processors/AMD-FX-9590-50-GHz-processor-getting-price-drop
Posted on Reply
#71
evernessince
renz496no. not really. you guys need to carefully look how hardware canucks made the conclusion. RX480 closing the gap with to GTX1060 in DX11 using average combined score. hardware canucks adds more tittle that favoring AMD card so that affect the average score towards AMD. when they present that numbers it doesn't mean that now RX480 are as fast as GTX1060 in every DX11 tittles.
It doesn't need to be as fast as the 1060 in every title, average is a better indicator of speed. You can go look anywhere, it's not just hardware canucks re reviewing after AMD's new driver.
Posted on Reply
#72
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Here's hoping Haswell users will rush to AMD so I can get a better CPU on the cheap. :p

Also, Zen>Ryzen.
Posted on Reply
#73
ValenOne
evernessinceUh, no it won't. Why in the hell would AMD not design VEGA based off of Polaris. "Oh hey guys, let's base our top end GPU off our last gen cards", said no one ever. That would be called a refresh.

No, VEGA is Polaris + HBM2 + Various other improvements from VEGA (like improved shaders).

FYI AMD's DX 11 performance has gotten better with polaris and the release of their ReLive drivers. If you haven't checked, the RX 480 is now on par with the GTX 1060 is DX 11.
Polaris 10 doesn't have double rate 16bit FP feature while both PS4 Pro and Vega 10 has double rate 16 bit FP feature.

Native 16bit FP support is important for incoming Shader Model 6.0.
Posted on Reply
#74
cyneater
RivageIntel has better designers, at least... all those AMD slides looks... meh
except for this guy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) originally from DEC done work for AMD and apple


Lets wait to zen hits the actual market its not like AMD has used PR before ...

anyone else remember the Althon XP's....
Posted on Reply
#75
Brusfantomet
AMD stock seems to be down 2% in after market trading as of writing this, witch i find weird.
Most people would consider the performance demonstrated from zen to be good, but maybe the market is taking the numbers with a "truckload of salt"?
cyneaterexcept for this guy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) originally from DEC done work for AMD and apple


Lets wait to zen hits the actual market its not like AMD has used PR before ...

anyone else remember the Althon XP's....
Think he was referring to graphical designers.
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