krukActually, it is a fact that most consumers buy nVidia cards only because of the brand name. The performance per dollar, power efficiency, etc. doesn't matter at all to them. They probably don't read a single benchmark before buying it, they just want something that has GeForce on it. That and only that's why nVidia is outselling AMD by that much. There are of course also consumers that exclusively buy AMD/ATI, but their numbers have always been much smaller ...

Whereas AMD customers tend to hold at least a BSc in electronics (they usually hold a PhD, but they're not uptight), read everything about GPU design and trade-offs, are intimately familiar with developments at TSMC and GF and above all else are completely unbiased when making a choice. Puh-lease.

TheGuruStudYeah, just like they all bought AMD CPUs from thunderbird through athlon X2...oh wait.

You're actually right, a random day of early 90s people woke up and they all decided to hate AMD and ATi (of course) because blue and lime green are better than dark green and red, so they together decided that it was the moment to stop giving money to tech corporations that had red and dark green in their logos, and also because the font they used was inferior to those of blue, and lime corps.



Yeah.

RejZoRAre they? I'm a gamer and I don't have GTX 1080 or GTX 1080Ti. Not because I don't like NVIDIA, just because 1080 series, despite their speed are so dull they just don't make my geek thingies tingle.

Of course they are in gamers hands, I've had mine for weeks.

Just because *you* don't, doesn't change reality.

oxidizedIt's actually because nvidia has the better product overall, sometimes not even by much, but still, it's not that people likes more green than red, or likes more geforce than radeon label, stop with this nonsense guys seriously.

Some bestsellers:
Geforce 4 MX
GTX 260
Fermi

Do explain how these products were better products overall as the competition cards. Can't wait - other nVidia defenders can help too :). If you can't, it just proves I'm right and you are not.

krukSome bestsellers:
Geforce 4 MX
GTX 260
Fermi

Do explain how these products were better products overall as the competition cards. Can't wait - other nVidia defenders can help too :). If you can't, it just proves I'm right and you are not.

Yeah, i know you're right indeed i explained a few posts up how that happened. ;)

oxidizedI really suggest you go look at latest benchmarks from TPU and guru3d, almost nothing you're saying is there, i also suggest you check better your sources next time.

Right back at you buddy.

Captain_TomRight back at you buddy.

Alright if you really did that, i also suggest you go check your eyes :)

www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-plus-review,1.html
:)

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/RX_570_Pulse/
:)

www.anandtech.com/show/11278/amd-radeon-rx-580-rx-570-review
:)

www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2882-msi-rx-580-gaming-x-review-vs-gtx-1060/page-5
:)

It's just a matter of weeks now before AMD fans are withdrawn to their last stand claiming Vega is still better due to a "newer" memory technology, better fp16 performance (which no games will use anytime soon), etc. We all remember such arguments from the past:
R9 390X vs. GTX 970: R9 390X is more "future proof" because it has 8 GB memory.
Fury X vs. GTX 980 Ti: Memory size suddenly doesn't matter, Fury X still more "future proof" with faster and "newer" memory.
RX 480 vs. GTX 1060: Memory size suddenly makes RX 480 more future proof again.
It all depends on the wind direction…

The only thing that really matters is real world performance, so let's end the "spec wars".

krukActually, it is a fact that most consumers buy nVidia cards only because of the brand name. The performance per dollar, power efficiency, etc. doesn't matter at all to them. They probably don't read a single benchmark before buying it, they just want something that has GeForce on it. That and only that's why nVidia is outselling AMD by that much. There are of course also consumers that exclusively buy AMD/ATI, but their numbers have always been much smaller ...

Back when AMD(ATI) actually were competitive and in some segments actually had better products, they actually got large market shares, and even at one point had larger market shares than Nvidia. AMD's market shares has disappeared since it's been years since they really had a competitive product in a segment that matters. The market shares the last ~15 years has been more or less proportional to the competitiveness between the two.

XzibitSo there is no data you were just speculating

This is a hypothesis. Can we test it? Possibly yes, but since I'm just a guy writing on a forum, I just won't and... whatever.
But if I were a top-ranking employee of AMD talking with a journalist, I'd have some numbers to support my words.

XzibitSo according to you the majority of FreeSync monitor buyers are 4K buyers now.

I simply wanted to give a realistic example, why someone might buy a FreeSync LCD but not plan to use it.
It's you who said that this doesn't happen because LCDs without FreeSync are cheaper.

ShurikNKaby Lake released in Jan/Feb or smth, only 2-3 months before Ryzen. Intel have literally nothing interesting throughout the year. Coffee Lake is the same chip as Skylake and will have 0% IPC improvements. They'll probably up the clock another 100-200MHz just as they did with Kaby.

But some benchmarks are very close and even the 5% IPC improvement could change the order on a chart. :)

Also, what's the problem with Kaby Lake being released 2-3 months before? Just how long does it take for AMD to update a chart for a presentation?

And what's with your IPC fetish. Who cares? Isn't performance what we're after?
When AMD releases Ryzen+ - being just a refresh with fixed issues and higher clocks - will you write the same about it? :)

notbThis is a hypothesis. Can we test it? Possibly yes, but since I'm just a guy writing on a forum, I just won't and... whatever.
But if I were a top-ranking employee of AMD talking with a journalist, I'd have some numbers to support my words.

Try'n to miss direct.

notbI simply wanted to give a realistic example, why someone might buy a FreeSync LCD but not plan to use it.
It's you who said that this doesn't happen because LCDs without FreeSync are cheaper.

One possible case scenario doesn't equal HUGE MAJORITY

Let me remind you what you said.

notbIt's very likely that there more FreeSync monitors sold - simply because it's also implemented in cheap models. But as a result a huge majority of FreeSync LCD owners is not using it.

Still waiting on this huge majority proof you speak of.

oxidizedAlright if you really did that, i also suggest you go check your eyes :)

www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-plus-review,1.html
:)

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/RX_570_Pulse/
:)

www.anandtech.com/show/11278/amd-radeon-rx-580-rx-570-review
:)

www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2882-msi-rx-580-gaming-x-review-vs-gtx-1060/page-5
:)

In RX480 defense... GamerNexus is using both heavily OC Aftermarket gpus, and we all know the 1060 can OC way higher than the RX480.

In TPU own benchmarks the RX480 won 11 out of 22 games, and sometimes by a good margin, even in some DX11.

Anandtech scores regarding BF1 are way off the scale even contradicting TPU and Guru3D benchmarks. In their "tests" a reference 1060 6GB is a massive 30% ahead in BattleField1... i have no clue how on earth did that happen, and even if anandtech used DX11 the margins is extremely high.

From what i seen from both GPUs they are basically the same in avg Performance. RX480 winning in 8 out of 10 DX12 games and even winning some DX11 games such as RE7, DeusEx, Hitman and Call of Duty Infinite Warfare. The 1060 wins 8 out of 10 games in DX11 and even winning some DX12 games such as RotR and GoW4.

In 1080p DX11 the 1060 is only 2% ahead the RX480 while the 480 is 6% ahead in DX12. Consider that the 1060 is only 6GB while the RX480 is 8GB and AMD claims a 3x the DX12 titles for 2017 which AMD seems to have a definitive Advantage in that APU. Not denying the fact that nVidia has a healthy lead in DX11.


I would recommend you check these videos:

HardwareCanucks "GTX 1060 vs RX 480 | Who Wins NOW?"

DigitalFoundies "[1080p] Radeon RX 580/ RX 570 vs RX 480/ GTX 1060 Gaming Benchmarks"

Hardware Unboxed "Can the RX 480 Dethrone The GTX 1060? [Crimson ReLive Update]"


RX480 and 1060 6GB both seem to be on par. I would not even consider RX580, in my opinions is just a waste, better find an aftermarket RX480 and OC the heck out of it. If i were to choose between the 1060 6GB and 480, i would grab the 480 for two little reasons, DX12 and 8GB as it feels more future proof than the 1060 6GB. Time will tell, as always.

Regarding VEGA... even if it can match up the 1080Ti, nVidia will soon release a new series. Putting AMD back a whole year to answer. At this pace i don´t know if AMD will be able to compete in the high end market anymore, and that is the truth.

oxidizedYou're actually right, a random day of early 90s people woke up and they all decided to hate AMD and ATi (of course) because blue and lime green are better than dark green and red, so they together decided that it was the moment to stop giving money to tech corporations that had red and dark green in their logos, and also because the font they used was inferior to those of blue, and lime corps.



Yeah.

You seriously underestimate the power of marketing and bribing reviewers (rigging software, etc).

Some industries spend double and triple on marketing compared to R&D. They know how to fool the idiots.

ratirtDude. you have a price tag on those i mentioned changed within months not years. buy titan X pascal then TI comes around and then another Titan. Dont you think that's crazy and unfair. I would feel screwed like never. You can play the good guy here defending but for me that's the fact. And please dont compare rx 480 to 390X. Rx was for mid tier cards competing with 970 not 390x which was a high end back then

seriously titan? we know the cheaper variant but just as fast will be coming out within 3 to 6 months down the line. we know this since the original titan back in 2013. and this is getting old. most people that complain about titan did not even buy the thing in the first place. one that did buy those cards most often they know what they get themselves into. and don't compare RX480 to 390X? why not? those 390X/390 also directly competing with 980/970 back in 2015.

etayoriusRegarding VEGA... even if it can match up the 1080Ti, nVidia will soon release a new series. Putting AMD back a whole year to answer. At this pace i don´t know if AMD will be able to compete in the high end market anymore, and that is the truth.

Soon, meaning next year I presume?
Volta for consumers will arrive one year from now, probably starting with mid-range models as usual.

TheGuruStudSome industries spend double and triple on marketing compared to R&D. They know how to fool the idiots.

Beats comes to mind. :roll:

ratirtNV will not discontinue G-sync. They get money from it and quite a lot so there's no point moving to F-sync when they have NV cards supporting G-sync. Look at the price tags of the 2 technologies. Monitors with equal specs are separated with a huge price difference.

That point is covered with "until monitor manufacturers stop cooperating," once they stop releasing monitors with g-sync the money NV receives instantly disappears. It's a matter of time also considering how much of a headache NV users (they are a very vocal and whiney bunch apparently) are creating for them.

FordGT90ConceptBeats comes to mind. :roll:

Apple has stake in it. That's all you to know. :laugh:

I read this: "My Penis is on the same league as a pr0n star's" - Congrats for creating a bubble balloon hype....

etayorius...

Already seen those videos, at least 2 of them are way older than the benchmarks i posted, which are the newer i could find on those websites, but it's ok, let's say they're 50 50 (even if i'm actually pretty sure it's more 45 55, but whatever), as you said, 1060 overclocks way more than any 480, ofc the better custom card you get, the more, (with lower temps and voltage) you can overclock it, all this consuming LESS power than ANY 480, even at stock speeds/voltages, while overclocked, pretty sure you can max out any 1060 at around 2100/4300-4400 with something like 20W more? I don't remember, but it's something like that. And again with a slightly premium price (which is also to see, because it's become really hard to find any 480 at a good price, even after 580 arrival), so what's the better buy? We've already seen the +2 GB of memory rarely, if ever comes in handy, and that nvidia has been "working" to improve dx12 performance, and they actually did improve a bit, via drivers ofc. Are you really sure a 480 is a better and more future proof buy?

TheGuruStudYou seriously underestimate the power of marketing and bribing reviewers (rigging software, etc).

Some industries spend double and triple on marketing compared to R&D. They know how to fool the idiots.

Nah i'm not, it's you people overestimating it, they can't reverse market with those procedures, it's not how it works really. Stop bringing this up, and please please stop with AMD good guys, any other, bad guys, it's not like that, biggest part of the reputation these corps have is deserved, and then maybe there's what you say, but it's a very small percentage.

At the end of the day. AMD has done some great things on both the CPU and GPU front working with a skeleton crew competing against CPU giant Intel and GPU giant Nvidia. If it weren't for AMD we would be paying more than 2 to 3 times the price for any given product.

StellarShotsAt the end of the day. AMD has done some great things on both the CPU and GPU front working with a skeleton crew competing against CPU giant Intel and GPU giant Nvidia. If it weren't for AMD we would be paying more than 2 to 3 times the price for any given product.

No doubts about this

StellarShotsAt the end of the day. AMD has done some great things on both the CPU and GPU front working with a skeleton crew competing against CPU giant Intel and GPU giant Nvidia. If it weren't for AMD we would be paying more than 2 to 3 times the price for any given product.

Exaggerations... You are already paying premium, like 2 or 3 times more that you should for a shitty 4 core CPU, not to mention the ridiculous and callous prices for 6 and 8 cores. AMD was out of the quality CPU game since Athlon days, so....

Idem for the GPUs.... Just look how nVidia managed to almost double the prices for top cards in less than 5 years. And I'm not talking about the Titan cards....

PowerPCThis definitely rings true, and a big win for AMD. Nvidia will have to adapt to FreeSync or be left behind. Right now they are probably thinking hard on how to make that move and still maintain face in the process.

On the topic of whether Vega will compete with 1080ti, I'm pretty sure it will, at least in Vulkan or DirectX 12 games. Might even be faster, honestly. And for much cheaper? If they can do this, people will flock to the AMD platform in masses. They know this, so I hope they are not planning to disappoint. This is the biggest test for AMD after they proved themselves in the CPU market against Intel, and might be the biggest test for them yet, whether they can also beat Nvidia? I really hope they can make Vega what people want and show it to Nvidia after they (kinda) beat Intel.

The good part is that Intel is now announcing consumer 6 cores for their next gen CPUs and even going to release them sooner than they "planned". But in reality, would they have done it if AMD didn't kick their asses in multi-core? Same for Nvidia, would they be making HBM2 and releasing it sooner now if AMD wasn't able to kick their asses in Graphics? I bet Nvidia already smelled or even knows for sure that Vega will be a threat. Otherwise, they would never announce Volta for so much sooner, wouldn't they?

Unfortunately, even if AMD did crush Nvidia in performance they would not gain much marketshare. Most people will always buy Nvidia simply because that's what they always bought. Heck, I still see people spreading the falsehood that AMD drivers are junk even though they have gotten vastly better over the last 3 years and have had far less issues as of late.

oxidizedAlready seen those videos, at least 2 of them are way older than the benchmarks i posted, which are the newer i could find on those websites, but it's ok, let's say they're 50 50 (even if i'm actually pretty sure it's more 45 55, but whatever), as you said, 1060 overclocks way more than any 480, ofc the better custom card you get, the more, (with lower temps and voltage) you can overclock it, all this consuming LESS power than ANY 480, even at stock speeds/voltages, while overclocked, pretty sure you can max out any 1060 at around 2100/4300-4400 with something like 20W more? I don't remember, but it's something like that. And again with a slightly premium price (which is also to see, because it's become really hard to find any 480 at a good price, even after 580 arrival), so what's the better buy? We've already seen the +2 GB of memory rarely, if ever comes in handy, and that nvidia has been "working" to improve dx12 performance, and they actually did improve a bit, via drivers ofc. Are you really sure a 480 is a better and more future proof buy?



Nah i'm not, it's you people overestimating it, they can't reverse market with those procedures, it's not how it works really. Stop bringing this up, and please please stop with AMD good guys, any other, bad guys, it's not like that, biggest part of the reputation these corps have is deserved, and then maybe there's what you say, but it's a very small percentage.

I definitely think 480 is a better buy. Both cards are around the same Level of Performance but 480 has a DX12 advantage (which is the future) and two extra GB of Ram that will be useful in the future. If someone is more on DX11 and older games just grab the 1060 as it is way superior in that regards. But if someone makes their buy with DX12 in mind the RX480 is the clear winner, since it has proven that it is indeed faster with DX12 titles. Even after the nvidia DX12 Driver the 480 is still ahead. It is very simple, DX11 goes to nvidia hands down. While DX12/Vulkan at the moment and with current titles AMD is the clear Leader. Maybe nVidia finds a way to perform faster with comparable GPU to AMD in the future, Who knows.