iONot even Nvidia with their massively bigger R&D budget managed to do this and chose to build the same GPU twice with two different memory controllers.

And I really doubt adding another ~50W+ for GDDR5 memory and its subsystem plus another potential bottleneck by reducing the memory bandwidth would actually help the card...

AssimilatorAs I stated in my previous reply, AMD already had problems with HBM supply with Fiji, so it would have been prudent (I would argue, necessary) for them to anticipate the same with HBM2 and build a GPU with a memory controller that could handle multiple memory types. That AMD chose not to do so is entirely their fault and represents an absolute failure in terms of risk-mitigation.

There's a difference between "acceptable" and "terrible". Since Hawaii, NVIDIA's reference coolers have always fallen into the first group, while AMD's have always fallen into the second. AMD's failure to improve their reference cooler - over multiple GPU generations - is, again, entirely their own fault.

Fanboys making endless excuses for AMD isn't going to make AMD fix its s**t. Negative publicity and voting with your wallets will. No company should get a free pass on repeated failures, regardless of how small and underdog-y it is.

HoodFirst they said they were delaying launch to make sure there are no issues with supply, and the delay was almost A YEAR. This is after there were several press releases about HBM-caused delays. Then, when supplies ran out on day one, their eventual answer was "we SHIPPED tens of thousands of cards, and 'logistical problems' kept them from reaching distributors (logistical problems involves physically being unable to get to their destination - were the damn trucks hijacked?

HoodThen all the crap with prices started - bundles, "launch" prices, rebates to retailers for launch only, SEP double-talk vs MSRP. Strange, isn't it, that all these bundles are trying to sell Ryzen CPUs and boards - is there a problem with Ryzen sales? Normally hardware sold in bundles is over-stocked last generation stuff, trying to get rid of them before they're stuck with a loss. So another lie was, "the bundle strategy is designed to thwart miners". Funny how these dozens of bundles all have Vega cards available, but there's no cards available alone.

HoodThen, just yesterday, "we've worked out the "logistics issues", and all stores will be fully stocked THIS WEEK". Now today they say supplies won't normalize until October.

HoodSo which is the real story? It doesn't even matter, because only one story can be the real story, and by definition, the other contradictory stories HAVE to be lies. Take your pick, but I am fairly sure that NONE are the real story, and ALL are lies. It's a high-stakes game they're playing, and people who believe them do so because they desperately refuse to hear anything negative about AMD. I think it will explode in their face very soon.

FouquinThat's all well and good but I have yet to actually see anything beyond speculation that AMD has in fact lied about anything. Lots of crying and moaning from the *PC Gamers* and very little proof.

HoodFirst they said they were delaying launch to make sure there are no issues with supply, and the delay was almost A YEAR. This is after there were several press releases about HBM-caused delays. Then, when supplies ran out on day one, their eventual answer was "we SHIPPED tens of thousands of cards, and 'logistical problems' kept them from reaching distributors (logistical problems involves physically being unable to get to their destination - were the damn trucks hijacked? I don't recall any blizzards, floods, or hurricanes that week). Then all the crap with prices started - bundles, "launch" prices, rebates to retailers for launch only, SEP double-talk vs MSRP. Strange, isn't it, that all these bundles are trying to sell Ryzen CPUs and boards - is there a problem with Ryzen sales? Normally hardware sold in bundles is over-stocked last generation stuff, trying to get rid of them before they're stuck with a loss. So another lie was, "the bundle strategy is designed to thwart miners". Funny how these dozens of bundles all have Vega cards available, but there's no cards available alone. Then, just yesterday, "we've worked out the "logistics issues", and all stores will be fully stocked THIS WEEK". Now today they say supplies won't normalize until October. So which is the real story? It doesn't even matter, because only one story can be the real story, and by definition, the other contradictory stories HAVE to be lies. Take your pick, but I am fairly sure that NONE are the real story, and ALL are lies. It's a high-stakes game they're playing, and people who believe them do so because they desperately refuse to hear anything negative about AMD. I think it will explode in their face very soon.

the54thvoidIt doesn't matter how logically you try to put it, your argument is always ignored and a sly, troll comment is put in to attack you.
Let people believe what they want and see what happens. I'm damn happy I didn't wait.

r9I'm upset with both AMD and Nvidia.
With AMD cuz they dropped the ball with Vega, but at least I know they are doing their best.
On the other hand what upsets me with Nvidia is you can always expect them to do their bare minimum.

Th3pwn3rWhat is it when you say something that's completely untrue? A lie.

notbThe fact that we're getting "unofficial" info about supply problems doesn't mean there actually are any...
.

FouquinWhat is it when you say something that is untrue but have been assured with complete sincerity that it is the truth? Misinformation. See there can be a grey area, it's not all black or white despite what everyone seems to think.

Th3pwn3rOkay, so misinformation from AMD is a gray area but not a lie to consumers? You seem like you could be AMD's terrible lawyer lol. Ever watch Arrested Development? You remind me of the Bluth's lawyer :laugh:

FouquinWell now hang on, where in any of this thread was there official information from AMD? All I've seen is speculation surrounding previous statements on unrelated facets of Vega's supply problems. Do you have links with evidence of actual lies? I'm genuinely curious.

Th3pwn3r“Radeon RX Vega64 demand continues to exceed expectations. AMD is working closely with its partners to address this demand. Our initial launch quantities included standalone Radeon RX Vega64 at SEP of $499, Radeon RX Vega64 Black Packs at SEP of $599, and Radeon RX Vega64 Aqua Packs at SEP of $699. We are working with our partners to restock all SKUs of Radeon RX Vega64 including the standalone cards and Gamer Packs over the next few weeks, and you should expect quantities of Vega to start arriving in the coming days.”

This in conjunction with the cards being out of stock in a lot of places is more than enough to realize there's a supply problem. If there wasn't a supply problem there would be no statement.

EDIT:Vega came so late to meet supply demands which they are clearly not coming close to doing considering how everything was out of stock on day zero.

Fouquinbut when reality sets in and answers are provided I'm going to bet that the whole situation is significantly more mundane than you're making it out to be.

FouquinThere are no lies in the quoted statements. Supply problems are a given, just take a look at the last ten years and find a product that wasn't out of stock on release. Maybe you'll find one 5-10 years ago that didn't have supply problems. However I don't see how a statement saying "Demand is high, we're working on replenishing stock," is construed as them lying about Vega's supply.

Th3pwn3rI'm pretty sure the supply problems are real when the product is sold out and there are consumers trying to buy it.

HoodYou're probably right. I just wanted to list some of the things they've told us that don't add up. Mostly because I'm tired of AMD fans making more excuses for AMD's failure, and taking them at face value. I don't recall any other company that gets a pass for this kind of behavior, and I'm not inclined to give them benefit of doubt at this point. I don't like the way they play with people's heads, people who have been loyal to them and supported them wholly. They cash in on that loyalty shamelessly and without remorse, in pursuit of the almighty dollar, and forget that customer loyalty is their greatest asset right now, and how fleeting it can be.

Th3pwn3rThe lie exists in the sense that they said they purposely delayed launch to produce enough stock for demand. That's one, the other is in pricing.

Th3pwn3rThe lie exists in the sense that they said they purposely delayed launch to produce enough stock for demand. That's one, the other is in pricing.

AMDwe wanted to make sure we were launching with good volume

FouquinDo you have links with evidence of actual lies? I'm genuinely curious.[/QUOTE
Ambiguous statements are never attributed to a company spokesperson, it's always "a trusted source close to the company", or something else that provides maximum deniability. These are tricks almost as old as humanity, used by lawyers, politicians, snake oil vendors, and other professional liars. It's surprising that people still fall for them.

HoodAmbiguous statements are never attributed to a company spokesperson, it's always "a trusted source close to the company", or something else that provides maximum deniability. These are tricks almost as old as humanity, used by lawyers, politicians, snake oil vendors, and other professional liars. It's surprising that people still fall for them.

Th3pwn3rThis lie or that lie, truth or not, it doesn't matter. Fact is Vega isn't in stock like it's supposed to have been no matter the reason.

FouquinNeither was Fiji.
Neither was Hawaii.
Neither was Kepler.

Could keep going back but the point is made. New GPUs run out of stock and are subsequently drip-fed into the market until demand subsides and stock can normalize. It's not something that AMD is doing specifically with Vega to piss off their customers.

HoodEvery day they release new lies designed to mitigate the fallout from the previous pack of lies. All the lies were designed to call attention away from the main original lie - that Vega's performance was between a 1080 and a 1080 Ti, for $500. All subsequent lies only made it worse, until even die-hard fanboys gave up in disgust. AMD is going from being the much-loved underdog to being the much-hated liar, that caused thousands of people to wait for a pipe dream that never happened. There's a thin line between love and hate, and many former AMD fans are crossing that line now. I'm glad that I prefer Nvidia, I may have to pay high prices, but at least they deliver what they promise, without all this drama and BS.