Tuesday, December 8th 2020

Apple Introduces AirPods Max, the Magic of AirPods in a Stunning Over-ear Design

Apple today announced AirPods Max, innovative wireless headphones that bring the magic of AirPods to an over-ear design with high-fidelity sound. AirPods Max combine a custom acoustic design, H1 chips, and advanced software to power computational audio for a breakthrough listening experience with Adaptive EQ, Active Noise Cancellation, Transparency mode, and spatial audio. AirPods Max come in five gorgeous colors, including space gray, silver, sky blue, green, and pink, and are available to order starting today, with availability beginning Tuesday, December 15.

"AirPods are the most popular headphones in the world, beloved for their effortless setup, incredible sound quality, and iconic design. With AirPods Max, we are bringing that magical AirPods experience to a stunning over-ear design with high-fidelity audio," said Greg Joswiak, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Marketing. "The custom acoustic design, combined with powerful H1 chips, and advanced software enable AirPods Max to use computational audio to wirelessly deliver the ultimate personal listening experience."
Custom Acoustic Design
From the canopy to the ear cushions, every part of AirPods Max is carefully crafted to provide exceptional acoustic performance for each user. The breathable knit mesh canopy, spanning the headband, is made to distribute weight and reduce on-head pressure. The stainless steel headband frame provides strength, flexibility, and comfort for a wide variety of head shapes and sizes. Telescoping headband arms smoothly extend and stay in place to maintain the desired fit.

Each ear cup attaches to the headband through a revolutionary mechanism that balances and distributes ear cup pressure, and allows it to independently pivot and rotate to fit the unique contours of a user's head. Each ear cushion uses acoustically engineered memory foam to create an effective seal — a critical factor in delivering immersive sound. The Digital Crown, inspired by Apple Watch, offers precise volume control and the ability to play or pause audio, skip tracks, answer or end phone calls, and activate Siri.

Breakthrough Listening Experience
AirPods Max feature a 40-mm Apple-designed dynamic driver that provides rich, deep bass, accurate mid-ranges, and crisp, clean high-frequency extension so every note can be heard. A unique dual neodymium ring magnet motor allows AirPods Max to maintain total harmonic distortion of less than 1 percent across the entire audible range, even at maximum volume.1 Equipped with an Apple-designed H1 chip in each ear cup, a custom acoustic design, and advanced software, AirPods Max use computational audio to deliver the highest quality listening experience possible. Utilizing each of the chips' 10 audio cores—capable of 9 billion operations per second—computational audio powers a breakthrough listening experience that includes Adaptive EQ, Active Noise Cancellation, Transparency mode, and spatial audio.
  • Adaptive EQ: AirPods Max use Adaptive EQ to adjust the sound to the fit and seal of the ear cushions by measuring the sound signal delivered to a user and adjusting the low and mid-frequencies in real time—bringing rich audio that captures every detail.
  • Active Noise Cancellation: AirPods Max deliver immersive sound through Active Noise Cancellation so users can focus on what they are listening to. Each ear cup features three outward-facing microphones to detect environmental noise, while one microphone inside the ear cup monitors the sound reaching the listener's ear. Using computational audio, noise cancellation continuously adapts to the headphone fit and movement in real time.
  • Transparency Mode: With AirPods Max, users can switch to Transparency mode to simultaneously listen to music while hearing the environment around them—ensuring everything, including a user's own voice, sounds natural while audio plays perfectly. Switching between Active Noise Cancellation and Transparency mode can be done with a single press using the noise control button.
  • Spatial Audio: AirPods Max use spatial audio with dynamic head tracking to place sounds virtually anywhere in a space — delivering an immersive, theaterlike experience for content recorded in 5.1, 7.1, and Dolby Atmos. Using the gyroscope and accelerometer in AirPods Max and iPhone or iPad, spatial audio tracks the motion of a user's head as well as the device, compares the motion data, then remaps the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user's head moves.
The Magic of AirPods
AirPods Max join the existing AirPods family in delivering unparalleled wireless audio, whether a customer is listening to music, making phone calls, enjoying TV shows and movies, playing games, or interacting with Siri. The magical setup experience customers love with today's AirPods and AirPods Pro extends to AirPods Max with one-tap setup, followed by automatic pairing with all the devices signed in to a user's iCloud account, including iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, Mac, Apple Watch, and Apple TV.

AirPods Max automatically detect when they are on a user's head using the optical and position sensors. Once in place, AirPods Max play audio and can pause once removed or when the user simply lifts one ear cup. With AirPods Max, voice calls and Siri commands are crisp and clear due to beam-forming microphones that block out ambient noise and focus on the user's voice.

Battery and Performance
AirPods Max feature great battery life with up to 20 hours of high-fidelity audio, talk time, or movie playback with Active Noise Cancellation and spatial audio enabled.

AirPods Max come with a soft, slim Smart Case that puts AirPods Max in an ultralow power state that helps to preserve battery charge when not in use.

Additional Features
  • Automatic switching allows users to seamlessly move sound between iPhone, iPad, and Mac. When playing music on Mac, users can easily take a call on iPhone and AirPods Max will automatically switch over.
  • Audio Sharing makes it possible to easily share an audio stream between two sets of AirPods on iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, or Apple TV 4K. Simply bring AirPods Max near the device and connect with a single tap.3
  • Siri capabilities include the ability to play music, make phone calls, control the volume, get directions, and more. Siri can also read incoming messages as they arrive with Announce Messages with Siri.
Pricing and Availability
  • AirPods Max are available to order starting today for $549 (US) from apple.com and in the Apple Store app in the US and more than 25 other countries and regions. AirPods Max will begin shipping on Tuesday, December 15.
  • AirPods Max require Apple devices running iOS 14.3 or later, iPadOS 14.3 or later, macOS Big Sur 11.1 or later, watchOS 7.2 or later, or tvOS 14.3 or later.
  • AirPods start at $159 (US) and AirPods Pro are available for $249 (US).
  • Customers can add personal engraving to AirPods Max, AirPods Pro, and AirPods for free on apple.com and in the Apple Store app.
  • Customers are able to find the same great shopping and support services at apple.com/shop, in the Apple Store app, and at Apple Store locations. Customers can get shopping help from Apple Specialists, choose monthly financing options, get special carrier offers for iPhone, trade in eligible devices, and get Support services and no-contact delivery or Apple Store pickup options. Customers are encouraged to check apple.com/retail for more information on the health and safety measures in place, and the services available, at their local store.
  • Pickup options include in-store, curbside, or Express storefront, and vary by store. Same-day delivery may also be available. Customers can check apple.com/retail for services available at their local store.
  • With Apple Card, customers in the US get 3 percent Daily Cash back when they buy directly from Apple and have the option to choose Apple Card Monthly Installments so they can pay over time, interest-free.
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85 Comments on Apple Introduces AirPods Max, the Magic of AirPods in a Stunning Over-ear Design

#26
Zareek
I just don't get the Apple pricing! Why do people buy this stuff? I know their products are nice for the most part but other companies make nice products too. There are reasonably priced alternatives. My iPhone 11 is a nice phone but I wouldn't have it, if work didn't provide it.
Posted on Reply
#27
bug
ZareekI just don't get the Apple pricing! Why do people buy this stuff? I know their products are nice for the most part but other companies make nice products too. There are reasonably priced alternatives. My iPhone 11 is a nice phone but I wouldn't have it, if work didn't provide it.
That part is easy to explain. If you have the $$$, but don't know the first thing about tech, Apple is sure to give you something that is at least above average.

What completely baffles me is people always raving at Apple taking something that was always open (as in universally compatible), in this case a pair of headphones, and turning it into something proprietary, that only works if you spend at least another grand on other Apple equipment.
Posted on Reply
#28
robot zombie
PowerPCI know, right?

It's like anything from Apple is automatically trash because it has a higher price. But any Chinese ripoff that falls apart after two uses is good because its price is $10. TPU in a nutshell.

Apple has the best build quality you can probably get for their prices in the world. You see designer shit like this going for far more money elsewhere. So let's not pretend that it should be cheap if people were buying stuff like this for far more before Apple. You need good build quality in a headphone. Hell, not just in headphones, you need it for everything. People who shit on them probably never owned any Apple products. It's a whole different level. But how would they own them, if they "would never buy it" like in every one of these Apple threads?

Btw., saying "would never buy it" before you used it, instead of "could never afford it", is a sure sign that you're a cheapskate.
Bit of a hyperbole to suggest that theres nothing between 10 and 600 dollars, or that any reasonable person really thinks like that.

Lets also not pretend like Apple doesn't upcharge for most of their products lol. That attitude doesn't come from nowhere, you know? And last I checked it's not just a TPU thing. Many people in tech do not think highly of them, and I don't think it has anything to do with price when people with custom builds costing every bit as much as an Apple workstation look at what's in one, laugh, and say it's not worth the money. Like man, when people who spend money on liquid cooling for builds that don't need them are telling you something is overpriced, I don't know what more you want! :p

If anything is cheap, it's that shot... implying that people can't question the value of things they've never bought or used is silly. Of all of the classist nonsense I've heard recently, that is rich. If you're selling a product, it's kinda on you to establish the value, not for the market to just accept it. I'm no big shot, but my whole audio setup at this point is approaching 3 grand. Am I being cheap by saying the $600 Apple noise cancelling headphones probably aren't a good value as I sit here with my $1000 Focal Clears plugged into another $1000 of upstream plugged into a PC that cost me ~$2000 when I built it? Or is it just too rich for my blood? What am I to you, chopped liver? :laugh:

Sometimes people simply don't buy things because they don't want to buy it or don't think it's worth it. Trying to make it about income is a low blow, and it's not accurate.

All I'm saying is... Apple isn't exactly known for BAD products (well... nah, not important,) but one thing they are DEFINITIVELY not known for is good value. They are a luxury brand. In tech, they are essentially THE luxury brand. You pay the markup for that name. And yes, the product is usually good. But the value gets eaten into for prestige.

It's interesting how most people come to poke fun at Apple itself, or at the product, but you guys have to come in and make it personal. I see you :wtf:
Posted on Reply
#29
lexluthermiester
SplinterdogAnd a stunning price too at 10x more than my Skull Candy headhpones which I'm more than pleased with.
Right? I've got a set of over-ear headphones that cost $30 that sound better than the set of Sony headphones that cost $70.
PowerPCBTW, saying "would never pay that much for a set of headphones" before you used it, instead of "could never afford it", is a sure sign that you're wise with your money.
Fixed that for you.


As for the context of this product;
$549? That'll be $60 for the headphones and $489 Apple tax. Hmm...

No, and get knotted Mr Cook.
Posted on Reply
#30
PowerPC
robot zombieBit of a hyperbole to suggest that theres nothing between 10 and 600 dollars, or that any reasonable person really thinks like that.
Literally, some guy before my post said he has $10 headphones, so he won't be buying one of these. :banghead:
robot zombieLike man, when people who spend money on liquid cooling for builds that don't need them are telling you something is overpriced, I don't know what more you want! :p
Isn't that the whole problem? People overpaying for expensive stuff complaining about other people apparently overpaying for expensive stuff... :rolleyes:
robot zombieIf anything is cheap, it's that shot... implying that people can't question the value of things they've never bought or used is silly.
How is that silly? If you never used or experienced something, how can you so confidently accuse it of being bad and insult others who use it while you're at it? This is the whole problem with these types of people. Saying "I would never buy it" and in the same breath "It's shit". Maybe, just maybe you don't have the whole picture then? That's the whole damn reason why Amazon has to verify your purchase before you can leave a bad review for a product. Trying to leave a bad review before that is what is silly here. And to add to that, most people that actually buy from Apple (actually own their products) have a way better opinion of them.
robot zombieSometimes people simply don't buy things because they don't want to buy it or don't think it's worth it. Trying to make it about income is a low blow, and it's not accurate.
Where did I make it about income? I clearly said it's people who say "I wouldn't buy from Apple" instead of "I couldn't afford that" and who shit on them in the same breath. That is the problem.
robot zombieThey are a luxury brand. In tech, they are essentially THE luxury brand. You pay the markup for that name. And yes, the product is usually good. But the value gets eaten into for prestige.
Apple is far from luxury. If you're calling them luxury with what they charge, that just speaks for their products. Luxury tech exists on the Rolex or Patek Philippe side of things. Or even the rare supercars that cost millions. Luxury implies rarity, whereas Apple products are widely available and you don't have to be super-rich to get them like with actual luxury... You can even be dirt poor compared to the Jeff Bezoses of the world and still afford some Apple products. There are even people 1000000 levels below Jeff Bezos that can afford Apple. So no, Apple doesn't even remotely constitute luxury by any of those metrics. As I said in my first post, it looks and feels like luxury without actually being luxury in the real sense of the word.
robot zombieIt's interesting how most people come to poke fun at Apple itself, or at the product, but you guys have to come in and make it personal. I see you :wtf:
Personal? Way to go cry about something I didn't even do. The people who imply that only stupid people buy Apple products are making it personal. I'm just describing their behavior. All they do is trash on things they know nothing about to make themselves look better than those "rich idiots". o_O

When I got my first MacBook late in life I was very surprised by how good it felt to use. I was especially amazed by the build quality. I later bought an iPad and I wasn't disappointed at all, again. I still think every last penny for that iPad was worth it, if not for the MacBook. But with the new MacBooks without Intel, I will definitely get one of the next MacBook Pros again for sure. Look, I started building my own PCs in the 90s since I was 12. I use Linux exclusively for about 5 years on the desktop side. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, that's why I always found ways to build everything I have from scratch as much as possible. But with Apple, as I said, it just feels like luxury without actually being a complete ripoff. I would say that's the biggest strength of Apple. People like to have some luxury in their lives, even if it just feels like it. But for some people that's like a sin, I guess. Maybe they just like to deprive themselves and others? :wtf:
Posted on Reply
#31
Zareek
bugThat part is easy to explain. If you have the $$$, but don't know the first thing about tech, Apple is sure to give you something that is at least above average.
I know people who don't have the money to buy Apple who buy only Apple. I know people who work in tech and are proficient with technology that still buy overpriced Apple products. Apple marketing somehow turns people into mindless zombies. The things they say to explain it are the funniest part. I literally cleaned a virus off an Apple machine and the owner straight face told me that Apple products are immune to viruses the very next day. This was from a highly educated, successful and intelligent man. They are brainwashed...
bugWhat completely baffles me is people always raving at Apple taking something that was always open (as in universally compatible), in this case a pair of headphones, and turning it into something proprietary, that only works if you spend at least another grand on other Apple equipment.
I tell you brainwashed!
Posted on Reply
#32
PowerPC
lexluthermiesterAs for the context of this product;
$549? That'll be $60 for the headphones and $489 Apple tax. Hmm...
Hmm... So like 99% of all the products that get made in China? It's like the dirty little secret of the tech industry. We all know what it is and we are all supporting it. At least I know that Apple uses Foxconn to assemble their products. A Taiwanese company. How much actual slave labor goes into most other Chinese products where the margins are close to 100%?
Posted on Reply
#33
R0H1T
PowerPCPeople overpaying for expensive stuff complaining about other people apparently overpaying for expensive stuff... :rolleyes:
Yes, that is a major effing issue. I don't pay bribes but the guy living next door does & it makes his life some/a whole lot easier! You know when you encourage corporations to overcharge for their products, or politicians to continue grafting, you may not be (directly) affected but there's at least a few others who will be.

Why AMD is not better than Intel, an introspective look from an AMD fanboy.

What's your take on this? Putting individualistic want/needs over the collective wellbeing of people, not in your part of the world but perhaps elsewhere! You know what would be nice is that these multi trillion dollar megaliths pay an effing dollar (per hour) more to their slave laborer's in third world nations, but they're too sadistic & greedy for that & the consumers just about on par!

If you haven't seen the worst (& best) of humanity in 2020 I'm sure there's nothing that'll change your mind :rolleyes:
Posted on Reply
#34
PowerPC
R0H1TYes, that is a major effing issue. I don't pay bribes but the guy living next door does & it makes his life some/a whole lot easier! You know when you encourage corporations to overcharge for their products, or politicians to continue grafting, you may not be (directly) affected but there's at least a few others who will be.

Why AMD is not better than Intel, an introspective look from an AMD fanboy.

What's your take on this? Putting individualistic want/needs over the collective wellbeing of people, not in your part of the world but perhaps elsewhere! You know what would be nice is that these multi trillion dollar megaliths pay an effing dollar (per hour) more to their slave laborer's in third world nations, but they're too sadistic & greedy for that & the consumers just about on par!

If you haven't seen the worst (& best) of humanity in 2020 I'm sure there's nothing that'll change your mind :rolleyes:
That's literally what I just said in the post before yours (probably even while you were writing this). I'm making exactly the same comparison between Apple and other companies. Apple might even actually be paying way more to their workers than other companies that are selling similar products way cheaper. And those companies that will rip off the Apple design and sell it for $10? There is no way of knowing if that price isn't just coming from slavery (spoiler: it definitely is). "But let's talk more about how Apple is exploiting their rich, privileged customers in first-world countries by overpricing their stuff!" :rolleyes:

Everybody always wants to get the cheapest and best quality stuff. But the price of "cheap" is usually other people suffering or being ripped off as slaves somewhere else. Especially good ol' "Made in China". At least Foxconn is Taiwanese (a democratic country that is opposed to China) with some oversight. If you trust the oversight of a pure Chinese company, which is directly profiting from the slave labor, you will also trust the devil if he offered you candy.
Posted on Reply
#35
R0H1T
Yes you just beat me to it but you didn't answer my question? Also what's this supposed to mean :wtf:
People who shit on them probably never owned any Apple products. It's a whole different level. But how would they own them, if they "would never buy it" like in every one of these Apple threads?
There's no saints in the corporate world not AMD, nor Intel & especially not Amazon. But there are definitely corporations who have the power/influence & money to make the living standards of their workforce & even supplier's employees much better! Now you could argue whether Apple can actually pull this off? But the fact that they're not even trying (at least on face value) is something that shouldn't be ignored, then we get to the real issue ~ consumers. I'll leave it at that.
PowerPCIf you trust the oversight of a pure Chinese company, who is directly profiting from the slave labor, you will also trust the devil if he offered you candy.
Right & where do you see me showing trust for any private, okay sometimes publicly listed, companies whose sole motive is profit? To get rid of this the consumers will need to embrace some form of "socialism" & big (bad) govt oversight. But yeah that's not gonna happen in this century, if ever!
Posted on Reply
#36
PowerPC
R0H1TThere's no saints in the corporate world not AMD, nor Intel & especially not Amazon. But there are definitely corporations who have the power/influence & money to make the living standards of their workforce & even supplier's employees much better! Now you could argue whether Apple can actually pull this off? But the fact that they're not even trying (at least on face value) is something that shouldn't be ignored, then we get to the real issue ~ consumers. I'll leave it at that.
Apple is already pulling this off better compared to 99% of the industry. I mentioned Foxconn. Foxconn by far isn't the cheapest supplier in China compared to fu**ing slave labor. Excuse my french but I don't know how many times people have to ignore what kind of conditions Chinese state-owned suppliers have for their literal slaves.
R0H1TRight & where do you see me showing trust for any private, okay sometimes publicly listed, companies whose sole motive is profit? To get rid of this the consumers will need to embrace some form of "socialism" & big (bad) govt oversight. But yeah that's not gonna happen in this century, if ever!
It's not gonna happen in any century because "socialism" doesn't work. Milton Friedman was right. I don't really want to get into an argument about capitalism, so I'll just leave it at that. There's a good interview with him here if you haven't heard of him.

The problem is with Chinese companies in China, which is very much a "socialist" country btw. But would you trust their oversight? The problem is not that we're not also socialist, obviously. The problem is that people still trust China, where there is no oversight. People buy cheap products from these Chinese state-owned companies and directly support only the Chinese government. No one else is getting shit. The $10 headphones? Maybe $9.50 goes to the Chinese state assholes and $0.50 goes to feed the workers so they won't die. I'm pretty sure Apple is paying way more to Foxconn workers than that already. And even if Apple is getting a big chunk as well, I'd rather actually support a company that isn't using, again, actual slave labor to make their products.

I would even go so far as to say western countries should all together go to war with China for these issues. And with any other country like China. Not full-blown military conflict, but end trade with all Chinese state-owned companies. All other countries need to have the balls to isolate them. But who wants to give up their fake $10 Chinese headphones? Now we are just supporting them with our money. It May sound radical, but we need a Cold War with China as we did with the Soviet Union. Just to take the wind out of some people, the Cold War was never actually as bad as any direct war. It was a necessary step western countries needed to take. I would say sooner or later it's inevitable anyway with the way China is developing. It just seems people want to give China way more time to cause more suffering in the world with their incompetence for people to figure this out.

And if people still think calling it slavery is overblown, watch this report. This proves how the system works there. It's also obviously just a small sample by a tiny group of researchers, and probably only scratches the surface. If known brands are doing it, imagine what all the ultra-cheap no-name brands are doing. "Yea, slavery and possibly torture in 2020 for some cheap ass knockoff headphones sure sounds great." :rolleyes:

:banghead:
Posted on Reply
#37
DeathtoGnomes
To those that think cheap shots only happen on TPU, you need to get out more and to stop being so naive. Apple has a history of overcharging, but they are in a position to do so. We might not like it, and when we dont we do what everyone does and throw stones at the imaginary glass house named after the original fruit.
Posted on Reply
#38
Flanker
PowerPCAt least Foxconn is Taiwanese (a democratic country that is opposed to China) with some oversight.
As a Taiwanese who used to work for Foxconn, the working conditions are not much to brag about comparing to Chinese owned factories

Apple is also looking at using Chinese OEMs
asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/China-s-Luxshare-aims-to-begin-iPhone-assembly-ahead-of-schedule

Don't get me wrong, I do see the value of Apple products. They are not my cup of tea but I do understand why other people trust them.
Posted on Reply
#39
thesmokingman
BansakuTypical TPU users and their instant snark that come out whenever Apple announces a new product. As an HD-600, HE-560, and 99 Classics (amongst others) owner I was very impressed with the Air Pod Pros, so seeing a full sized headphone with the same features draws my interest. Heck, ever heard a Home Pod? Ever hear 2 Home Pods in stereo? As an audiophile owning $3400 Klispch speakers powered by a high current Yamaha receiver, they sound amazing, especially when compared to other similarly priced hi-end brands like Bose and Sonos.
Bose and Sonos are high-end????
Posted on Reply
#40
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
tiggerI've seen plenty of Apple user with the wireless pods so i am sure there are enough idiots to buy these, and think they are fashionable wearing them.
AirPods are good though.
Posted on Reply
#41
Unregistered
FrickAirPods are good though.
Only work with Apple? I have a note 9
#42
ebivan
The crazy thing is that Apple users really think that Apple products are just better than others. But thats not the fact, these products are just as good or bad as other average products.
The only Apple products in our household are a MBP 2017, some iPhone and a pair of Airpod Pros, all of those are my wifes' working machines which she got from her employer. The iPhone has had battery problems forever, the Airpod Pros have had the cracking bug and had to be replaced just recently and the MBP has had the dirt in the keyboard problem. The mayor OS updates caused problems with iPhone and MBP over the years. Right now Big Sur gives her problems too.
But somehow all the Apple users I know, seem to be ignorant to these issues and keep believing that Apple stuff is somehow better than other stuff and therefore worth paying more than twice as much as they would have for comparable other premium hardware.

So all in all my take on Apple products is that they have the same issues as Windows and Android devices have. Not worse, but not better either. They are just about twice as expensive.

I have a Thinkpad T480 which is about the same age as my wifes' MBP, while the Thinkpad cost 1300€ and the MBP cost 2700€, the Thinkpad has faster hardware and better service. When my Thinkpads' mainboard was broken, I had a Lenovo technician here the next day to swap it out, while my wife had to bring her MBP in to an Apple Store to fix the keyboard and pick it up two days later. If I had to equip my employees with computers, I know what I would pick.

So yeah, Apple products are not bad but they are surely not better than other premium products, just more expensive. And there is always the fact that with Apple you are bound to their ecosystem while other manufacturers allow combining products by adhering to industry standards. You bought Airpods, so your next laptop will be a Macbook and your next Phone will be an iPhone because Apple just doesnt support most features on other platforms. You spend hundreds of bucks on cables and converters, so youre gonna make sure you have a use for those by buying Apple products with the same stupid proprietary connectors in the future!
Posted on Reply
#43
PowerPC
FlankerAs a Taiwanese who used to work for Foxconn, the working conditions are not much to brag about comparing to Chinese owned factories
I doubt that you have seen all Chinese-owned factories. But even if you have, factories are never actually something you can brag about. It's usually how much you are paid to do the actual work that counts. Can you talk about that?
FlankerApple is also looking at using Chinese OEMs
asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/China-s-Luxshare-aims-to-begin-iPhone-assembly-ahead-of-schedule
Quote from the article:
"Apple's support for Luxshare comes as its sales in China tumbled 29%"
This quote sounds more like Apple is trying to be friendly with the government by giving them a chance. Nothing has actually changed so far and nothing has been produced with them. But the rest of the article is all about this Chinese-owned company trying to get a contract from Apple, not the other way around. They have probably been trying this for years I would assume.

What's really happening is that Apple is already moving out of China as fast as they can and moving their manufacturing to India.

www.imore.com/apple-moved-9-11-iphone-manufacturing-units-china-india-says-minister
FlankerDon't get me wrong, I do see the value of Apple products. They are not my cup of tea but I do understand why other people trust them.
I'd ask anyone, why would you support a company with your money that you wouldn't trust?
Posted on Reply
#44
Flanker
PowerPCI'd ask anyone, why would you support a company with your money that you wouldn't trust?
Personally I don't support companies. Whoever provides the best products and services I need gets my hard earned money
PowerPCI doubt that you have seen all Chinese-owned factories. But even if you have, factories are never actually something you can brag about. It's usually how much you are paid to do the actual work that counts. Can you talk about that?
I've seen quite a lot of Chinese factories from a previous job. Some are truly terrible it blew my mind to pieces. Foxconn's factories are not the worst but not far from it. My experiences are mostly around Guangdong province. Foxconn and other factories, Chinese or otherwise, recruit workers from the same agencies or from their ads on social media. None of them are slaves, despite their crappy conditions.
Taiwanese factories are quite notorious for always trying to squeeze a couple of free hours here and there out of people, so are some of the shoddy Chinese factories. Korean, Japanese, and US factories in China are much better

I don't know wtf is going on with Uighur people, that place is literally the furthest from where I live within China. All the stuff I'm hearing from news are bloody disturbing.
Posted on Reply
#45
PowerPC
ebivanThe crazy thing is that Apple users really think that Apple products are just better than others. But thats not the fact, these products are just as good or bad as other average products.
The only Apple products in our household are a MBP 2017, some iPhone and a pair of Airpod Pros, all of those are my wifes' working machines which she got from her employer. The iPhone has had battery problems forever, the Airpod Pros have had the cracking bug and had to be replaced just recently and the MBP has had the dirt in the keyboard problem. The mayor OS updates caused problems with iPhone and MBP over the years. Right now Big Sur gives her problems too.
But somehow all the Apple users I know, seem to be ignorant to these issues and keep believing that Apple stuff is somehow better than other stuff and therefore worth paying more than twice as much as they would have for comparable other premium hardware.

So all in all my take on Apple products is that they have the same issues as Windows and Android devices have. Not worse, but not better either. They are just about twice as expensive.

I have a Thinkpad T480 which is about the same age as my wifes' MBP, while the Thinkpad cost 1300€ and the MBP cost 2700€, the Thinkpad has faster hardware and better service. When my Thinkpads' mainboard was broken, I had a Lenovo technician here the next day to swap it out, while my wife had to bring her MBP in to an Apple Store to fix the keyboard and pick it up two days later. If I had to equip my employees with computers, I know what I would pick.

So yeah, Apple products are not bad but they are surely not better than other premium products, just more expensive. And there is always the fact that with Apple you are bound to their ecosystem while other manufacturers allow combining products by adhering to industry standards. You bought Airpods, so your next laptop will be a Macbook and your next Phone will be an iPhone because Apple just doesnt support most features on other platforms. You spend hundreds of bucks on cables and converters, so youre gonna make sure you have a use for those by buying Apple products with the same stupid proprietary connectors in the future!
Many people really value the feel of the build quality. Just the feeling you get from holding it in your hands is worth a lot to many people, including me. Maybe just not here because you didn't even mention it. But comparing a fully plastic Thinkpad to a solid aluminium unibody like a MBP and saying they're basically the same, just different price, is kinda warping reality towards what you value and ignoring the rest. That "rest" you're excluding is what other people may value even way more than what connector it uses or what other details you listed. So if everything else is about the same as you say yourself, I would say that price may still be justified for people because of the objectively much higher build quality at minimum. There are other things like a noticeably smoother desktop workflow experience, much better command line than windows and many other small things like that. Same for iOS vs. Android. There also aren't many companies that make phones and laptops and desktop computers at the same time, including their respective OS. That's something only Apple has managed to combine under one company. Huawei is trying to do the same but we know how that worked out. So integration between everything is one of its kind in the industry because of this. There is still no equivalent to Airdrop anywhere else. Maybe that's why the ecosystem exists. It sounds like a dread for many people, but for people who have two or more devices, it's a clear benefit and adds value again that no other company offers, and that distinguishes Apple products from the rest of the product jungle. And yes, it simply works between all Apple devices. That kind of integration just isn't possible between Android and Windows and Lenovo and all the other separate companies that people try to mix and match. Don't even wait for it. It's all about changing your perspective and actually looking at, not totally ignoring, what other people value more than you do. That's where Apple actually is better.
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#46
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
tiggerOnly work with Apple? I have a note 9
That doesn't make them bad, or people buying them idiots.
Posted on Reply
#47
lexluthermiester
FrickThat doesn't make them bad, or people buying them idiots.
Artificially limited to a select few devices? $549? Not idiots, you say?!? Ok, please explain(in reasonable detail) why making such a purchase is intelligent on any level.
(not holding my breath on that one)
Posted on Reply
#48
Unregistered
FrickThat doesn't make them bad, or people buying them idiots.
I was asking if they work with anything else. more fashion victims than idiots. Apple users seem to think anything Apple make is superior to anything else and it is not.
#49
PowerPC
FlankerPersonally I don't support companies. Whoever provides the best products and services I need gets my hard earned money
I get it. All people are like this. If you offer them something cheaper, they will usually go for that. This is why we have to do this as a country or even as NATO. Take away China's right to offer and sell these products to the west. Look at how fast things change there, even if it won't be pretty for a while. I even felt sad that Trump wasn't reelected because despite how incompetent he was as president, he was the only politician who wasn't totally in China's pocket. If he would have done something like this, I would have considered him as one of the best presidents in US history.
FlankerI've seen quite a lot of Chinese factories from a previous job. Some are truly terrible it blew my mind to pieces. Foxconn's factories are not the worst but not far from it. My experiences are mostly around Guangdong province. Foxconn and other factories, Chinese or otherwise, recruit workers from the same agencies or from their ads on social media. None of them are slaves, despite their crappy conditions.
Taiwanese factories are quite notorious for always trying to squeeze a couple of free hours here and there out of people, so are some of the shoddy Chinese factories. Korean, Japanese, and US factories in China are much better
So you can't say anything about what I asked? How the factories look isn't going to be much different between any factories. It's the money people get paid for the work that is the crucial factor. If you work in a plastics factory for a bunch of money as a simple worker, that's probably a good job. If you work in the same factory without being paid, that's still slavery, no matter how good the working conditions are. That's why I explicitly asked if you knew how much the workers get paid at Foxconn compared to Chinese-owned factories. You haven't answered that.
FlankerI don't know wtf is going on with Uighur people, that place is literally the furthest from where I live within China. All the stuff I'm hearing from news are bloody disturbing.
Did you see the people who said they were all being injected with chemicals every day to make them not feel pain or hunger and be more calm and docile? Of course only after they fled somehow. If that's not just like reading a page from Brave New World, then you haven't read the book.
Posted on Reply
#50
ebivan
You are right, they are not totally the same. The Thinkpad is much better. Its like comparing a convertible to a station waggon. The convertible looks better, is much more expensive and has no practical use exepct to please the aesthetic needs of the owner and to show of his social status, while the station waggon can transport more people, bigger things, has a better mileage and costs less. I am really much more of a station waggon type of guy.
Well for the haptic qualities, when pressing the keyboard buttons of the MBP vs my Thinkpad, the MBP feels like shit. As for the aluminium body vs what you call plastic on the Thinkpad, the lid of the Thinkpads is kind of a rubber. I personally like modern polymers much more than slick metal. It has much better grip and is not as vulberable to scratches as aluminium. I carry mt Thinkpad to work without a protective case in a backpack every day while my wife works from home and uses a protective case when she is on business trips. Guess what laptop has more scratches... Well, its the aluminium one.
Also the MPB gets really hot on the lap while the Thinkpad is much cooler (and more quiet) under heavy load.
I think the MBP is much more of a lifestyle produkt that looks good on first sight, while the Thinkpad is a workhorse that is made with functionality first and looks last.
But yeah, of course lots of people think metal is better than plastic, otherwise Apple would use plastic, because Apple uses whats best.
Also you just confirmed what I said in the first place, that Apple users are just immune to arguments and always assume that for example desktop experience is more smooth on apple, while thats just not the case. I run several different OSes on my hardware and while MacOS certainly looks really smooth, actual load times are not faster than on other OSes with comparable hardware. Apple just spends a lot of time and money for their design, the outer appearance of the hardware with all the nice finish on the aluminium as well as the smooth appeal of the OS, (yes, Windows looks shit in comparison, thats true) but when it comes to measurable things like load times or computing performance, other premium products will give you so much more value for your money.

My wife carrys 5 adapters/converters with her when she goes on business trips, one for HDMI, one for Ethernet, one for USB, one for Lightning, and one for SD Cards and the USBc charger. So great to have the nice clean optics of the rounded aluminium finish on the desk with a whole zoo of ugly converters around it... While my Thinkpad, which you may find ugly looks much cleaner with all the integrated connectors in the same situation.
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