Arc1t3ctHow is a Microsoft account any different than a Google or Apple account? I don't get it...

Google and Apple do not "require" an account to their phones, just to use the store. Android and iOS both can be used bog-standard without and account. Android has the benefit of sideloading, which means the Play Store is not needed for advanced usage. Microsoft might be trying(poorly) to this make this happen on Windows.

AusWolfGovernments and companies have started putting way more emphasis on obligations rather than benefits. The world is heading in a disgusting direction where you vote for the party, or buy from the company that wants you to give up less, and not the one that provides more. Will this ever stop?

It's really sad and unfortunately happens in pretty much industry. Happens a lot with phones, cars and simple appliances like fridges. Pretty much everything starts to suck, but if you pay extra you can get what you had back. For us computer nerds, that's motherboards. Buying a budget board is a minefield of lies, fake specs and various other deceptive shit. VRMs may suck, budget board may not work properly with high TDP CPU, it may have overheating VRMs, it may lie in BIOS, it may have fucked up default settings, it may be overvolting your CPU for no reason, it may be overclocking your CPU, it may flat out fail just after warranty. Motherboard makers are the worst, because everything they do is full of lies and deception. It's probably the only industry in which you absolutely can't trust pretty much anything that they claim (not that you can trust other industries, but motherboard makers are the worst).

Microsoft is also bad with their Windows, because you have to use Windows or don't own a proper computer. At least Microsoft lies less than motherboard vendors, but that's it. Microsoft knows that Windows ended with Windows 2000 and all their attempts to make something different or make Windows into multi-platform OS failed. Because it's sucky experience on desktop, on laptop and on tablet. And they try to copy market trends set by Apple, because Apple makes shit ton of profit, without providing a lot of value for end user, but just enough so that user thinks that they do. Obviously, Microsoft knows that updated Windwos 2000 would be one hell of desktop OS, but since there's not much cash to be made from that, they copy Apple (in terms of UI and multi-platform support) and Google (forced account log ins, heavy focus on mobile and lots of spyware). If it wasn't money and silly user "needs", we would still be on essentially Windows 2000 UI and useful, but with new bug fixes, capability increases and other under the hood improvements. Sadly, Karens won't buy grandpa's ole 90s OS, when they can get nice and sleek looking iPad just to watch YT.

lexluthermiesterGoogle and Apple do not "require" an account to their phones, just to use the store. Android and iOS both can be used bog-standard without and account. Android has the benefit of sideloading, which means the Play Store is not needed for advanced usage. Microsoft might be trying(poorly) to this make this happen on Windows.

Yes and no, without GApps about 30% of all Android apps don't work correctly. Technically you can avoid Google, but your experience is going to be so ass, that it's basically mandatory.

I love how Microsoft is selling turning your personal computer into spyware dumb terminal as a benefit for the user. The corpomorons who had to come up with that gibberish must be very proud of their lousy, subhuman corpo-prowess.

I'm really glad I grew out of playing games so I can just move last of my home machines to Linux and forget about this train wreck of an OS.

dyonoctisI though that most people on TPU where using win pro, but I guess that they prefer the home version after all ? Otherwise I don't see why they would complain so much about something that they won't use.

The article says Win 11 Home will need you to log in. Does that mean that Win 11 Pro won't? I'm not so sure. :(

dyonoctisFor some people, it's actually a good thing that Microsoft is trying to have a functional online ecosystem, one of the thing I really despised with the old windows was having to spend too much time on the configuration of windows every time that I needed to reformat. They haven't reached MacOs level where the OS will also install all the previous software that you installed from the store, but the general setting are automatically carried over. And now that I use two PC, I like having the same environment/files everywhere without having to think about it, since OneDrive takes over the user folders, I didn't have to set it up on my other PC, everything was ready to use.

For me, the whole point of reinstalling my OS is starting a blank page. If I wanted the originally installed programs back, I would never bother to reinstall the OS in the first place.

The red spiritMicrosoft is also bad with their Windows, because you have to use Windows or don't own a proper computer. At least Microsoft lies less than motherboard vendors, but that's it. Microsoft knows that Windows ended with Windows 2000 and all their attempts to make something different or make Windows into multi-platform OS failed. Because it's sucky experience on desktop, on laptop and on tablet. And they try to copy market trends set by Apple, because Apple makes shit ton of profit, without providing a lot of value for end user, but just enough so that user thinks that they do. Obviously, Microsoft knows that updated Windwos 2000 would be one hell of desktop OS, but since there's not much cash to be made from that, they copy Apple (in terms of UI and multi-platform support) and Google (forced account log ins, heavy focus on mobile and lots of spyware). If it wasn't money and silly user "needs", we would still be on essentially Windows 2000 UI and useful, but with new bug fixes, capability increases and other under the hood improvements. Sadly, Karens won't buy grandpa's ole 90s OS, when they can get nice and sleek looking iPad just to watch YT.

That would be awesome! Old-school barebone Windows with the original grey 2D GUI, low hardware requirement and usage, 64-bit and DirectX 12 support, and ZERO preinstalled applications... :rolleyes::p

lexluthermiesterWait, that WORKED on 11? Seriously? Gonna have to give that a try..

Nope, sorry, I was talking about how I made my debloated Win10 installer. Haven't messed with 11 at all yet.

I'm hoping the process will be similar for 11.

OperandiFor business and enterprise it will always be there, enterprise will demand it so unless they pull it from Pro which I doubt it will always be in the Enterprise version.

Yes, I think for enterprises they cannot force it.
The company where I work uses company email address to offer many cloud services within Windows 10 but it in connected to our company cloud.
They will not trust Microsoft to have all our sensitive work data on M$ cloud.

sam_86314Granted, I exclusively use Pro, but what's to stop M$ from putting this requirement in all editions of Windows 11?

At home I also use Pro version, but it is OEM licence which costs around 20€.
The downside of OEM licence is that you need to get a new one if you change any HW as OEM licence is connected to particular HW setup.
Last time I switched from 5800x to 5900X Win 10 Pro needed to be re-activaed with new licence key. :oops:

I would be also really angry if they force this online account on also Pro versions. :mad:
I don't use Windows store and no cloud services at home so I don't want to link the Windows to my Microsoft account.
For data backup, I have my own Synology NAS server.

I have to say though I do own Hotmail email account since almost 23 years and it is used to connect to XBOX nowdays.

AusWolfThat would be awesome! Old-school barebone Windows with the original grey 2D GUI, low hardware requirement and usage, 64-bit and DirectX 12 support, and ZERO preinstalled applications... :rolleyes::p

That's why I'm not a businessman. I would love it too, but how exactly would you market something like that? Most people would think that you are some crazy nostalgia nerd trying to spin 90s OS as state of art OS. Karens wouldn't be happy.

On technical note, it barely matters if you have preinstalled apps and bunch of running services. RAM is plenty, so is storage space. And even if you designed lightweight OS, you can't change the software that will run on it and you can't change the internet, which is super bloated. Unfortunately making such OS, wouldn't yield much actual gains nowadays.

The red spiritThat's why I'm not a businessman. I would love it too, but how exactly would you market something like that? Most people would think that you are some crazy nostalgia nerd trying to spin 90s OS as state of art OS. Karens wouldn't be happy.

I say Karens use their phones for everything, PC is the nerds' territory who know how to configure an OS for themselves. You can't and shouldn't try to please everyone at the same time. But I guess that's why I'm not a businessman, either. :)

The red spiritOn technical note, it barely matters if you have preinstalled apps and bunch of running services. RAM is plenty, so is storage space.

It doesn't mean you should waste it on things that you don't need.

The red spiritAnd even if you designed lightweight OS, you can't change the software that will run on it and you can't change the internet, which is super bloated. Unfortunately making such OS, wouldn't yield much actual gains nowadays.

But you can make software a choice instead of an integrated feature. If average people had to learn basic PC skills (for example, how to click on an .exe file and click "next" until you get to "installation complete") like they had to in the '90s, maybe they would be less stupid and more independent. But I guess that's something governments and companies like Microsoft don't want.

AusWolfBut you can make software a choice instead of an integrated feature. If average people had to learn basic PC skills (for example, how to click on an .exe file and click "next" until you get to "installation complete") like they had to in the '90s, maybe they would be less stupid and more independent. But I guess that's something governments and companies like Microsoft don't want.

It's a nice thought, but a lot of people don't learn these. They can barely manage to use the computer for their internet surfing and paying their bills. Sometimes you just have to dumb down things, and make them as easy to use as possible, so most people can use it without issues (most of the time). Not everyone is tech savvy, or have the time or interest to learn more about computers beyond what they need it for.

AusWolfI say Karens use their phones for everything, PC is the nerds' territory who know how to configure an OS for themselves. You can't and shouldn't try to please everyone at the same time. But I guess that's why I'm not a businessman, either. :)

Yep, because enthusiast market isn't all that big compared to mobile market and MS wants the OS to be made for everyone.

AusWolfIt doesn't mean you should waste it on things that you don't need.

Yes, but if you tried any lightweight linux distros for those reasons they end up being disappointing.

AusWolfBut you can make software a choice instead of an integrated feature. If average people had to learn basic PC skills (for example, how to click on an .exe file and click "next" until you get to "installation complete") like they had to in the '90s, maybe they would be less stupid and more independent. But I guess that's something governments and companies like Microsoft don't want.

It's not that they don't want that, they just don't care about that. And as long as it doesn't hurt them, they don't give a damn.

The red spiritYes and no, without GApps about 30% of all Android apps don't work correctly. Technically you can avoid Google, but your experience is going to be so ass, that it's basically mandatory.

The GooglePlay services will still run on a device without setting up an account and most apps will still run as well. I actually run a tablet in such a way, as well as a laptop with AndroidX86. No accounts, they run stand-alone. Generally no issues with sideloading apps, though there are a some exceptions.

However, I trust Google a hell of a lot more than Microsoft because Google has proven themselves far more trustworthy over the years. Microsoft is NOT trustworthy and has proven so time and time again. Forced Windows 10 upgrades anyone? That list could go on and on..

Now they're going to try and force account creation to further their business and use TPM & SecureBoot to lock everyone out of the OS so we can't remove or alter the garbage apps they include. It's more of the same BS from the ethically & morally bereft mental midgets at MS.

lexluthermiesterThe GooglePlay services will still run on a device without setting up an account and most apps will still run as well. I actually run a tablet in such a way, as well as a laptop with AndroidX86. No accounts, they run stand-alone. Generally no issues with sideloading apps, though there are a some exceptions.

However, I trust Google a hell of a lot more than Microsoft because Google has proven themselves far more trustworthy over the years. Microsoft is NOT trustworthy and has proven so time and time again. Forced Windows 10 upgrades anyone? That list could go on and on..

Now they're going to try and force account creation to further their business and use TPM & SecureBoot to lock everyone out of the OS so we can't remove or alter the garbage apps they include. It's more of the same BS from the ethically & morally bereft mental midgets at MS.

Well, you can use your Android device without Google account, but what's the point if you keep all GApps on it anyway? Also some stupid thing like GPS service tracks you anyway and that's why some people decide to get rid of GApps completely and use something as impractical as Graphene OS.

lexluthermiesterNot me. For this unacceptable act of attempted control I will be joining the movement to crack the hell of the installers and remove those requirements. I'll be sharing with everyone how to do it as well. Microsoft has finally cross the wrong line.

As you all may have guessed, the optimism expressed earlier in other threads is Gonesville!

Hi,
Yep optimism is a good thing but as far as ms management is involved, usually misplaced way too often

People don't seem to realize just because all this is about 10 home version doesn't mean pro isn't next and sort of irrelevant even "IF" someone might be able to switch to a local account later the machine's have already been tagged although they already have ip address think ms would be happy with that alone.

MS services should sell themselves if they're any good not be force fed to the masses just because ms and some kids think they're good.
Why don't I want those services :/ mostly because they don't interest me and if I did I'd install them from the store and use a ms account.

AusWolfThe article says Win 11 Home will need you to log in. Does that mean that Win 11 Pro won't? I'm not so sure. :(


For me, the whole point of reinstalling my OS is starting a blank page. If I wanted the originally installed programs back, I would never bother to reinstall the OS in the first place.


That would be awesome! Old-school barebone Windows with the original grey 2D GUI, low hardware requirement and usage, 64-bit and DirectX 12 support, and ZERO preinstalled applications... :rolleyes::p

With the way that win pro is being used, in enterprise forcing a Microsoft log in would be annoying, since they are often using local credentials.
I'm only reinstalling when windows itself starts to act up, but having to reinstall every CG software that I use is a real chore, it was even worse if I forgot to copy the preference folders before hands (and that's when they have one, some software will need to be configured manually again...and all of those software programs require an online account, but they don't give you any benefits for having one...)

AusWolfI say Karens use their phones for everything, PC is the nerds' territory who know how to configure an OS for themselves. You can't and shouldn't try to please everyone at the same time. But I guess that's why I'm not a businessman, either. :)
But you can make software a choice instead of an integrated feature. If average people had to learn basic PC skills (for example, how to click on an .exe file and click "next" until you get to "installation complete") like they had to in the '90s, maybe they would be less stupid and more independent. But I guess that's something governments and companies like Microsoft don't want.

You would be surprised to see the amount of people who are using a beefy PC for work but aren't super tech-savvy. Graphic designer, CG artist, digital illustrator... those people are too busy getting better at their craft to spend time within the depth of an OS, which is also one of the reason as to why macOS is popular in creative fields. The old windows that you love, is the windows that they hate, and made them loyal to Apple.

It's a bit of a marketing and UX decision...if you leave to a user the choice between an old habit that he's used to or having to learn a new habit that may open up more possibilities, he's going to go with what he's more familiar. Many people are not very curious, and just use what they were told/used to use instead of trying to see for themselves if x new program, device, option is good or not...so yhea you have to shove things down the user's throat at times. (Even Apple users weren't happy at first when they ditched the home button, and changed the whole navigation, but they eventually adapted)

I remember seeing people complaining about full screen phones and virtual keyboards, how they hated to type on glass... now typing on glass has become the new standard, the kids who grew up with those devices will never understand what the fuss was about. Microsoft is basically trying stuff out, look what sticks, and eventually get rid of what people didn't ended up using. (wich granted isn't ideal, but the end user doesn't always know what he really needs either. Henry Ford said : "if I asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses")
Win 11 won't come with some of win 10 bloatware. Some people hate the xbox gamebar, but after using it, I actually find it more convenient to use and with a lower memory footprint than most after market programs.


Much bloat wow

I guess that I'm among the people who "grew up like this" when it comes to the Microsoft account being mandatory, in most of my tech life 90% of the software that I use are either not allowing an incognito mode, or offer a limited experience if you choose to go offline. (and since my work/field of study are closely related to social media, I have no choice but to mingle with the GAFAM).

The TPM and secure boot is already the default on some "new" laptops. My 2020 Dell inspiron is compatible with win11 with the default settings.

tabascosauzSays the same for me on my 5900X main. I'm pretty sure it's just bugged to hell and back. It's Microsoft, it's always going to be a gong show.



Looking at the system requirements, I think we (ie. everyone who tried to preload the leaked ISO) overlooked the requirement for a TPM 2.0. Whether this is a hardware TPM like in my XPS 9370 or a virtual TPM will work (ie. Ryzen PSP) I'm not sure. It could be that the wizard/installer is just getting caught up on the mandatory TPM.

That, or it also checks if your current Windows 10 installation is running Secure Boot. Vast majority of us who know how to clean install Windows are only running UEFI with Secure Boot off, methinks. The website just says Secure Boot-capable only, but well...this is Microsoft we're talking about.

Time to go check on my XPS 9370 and re-enable the AMD PSP on my 5900X and 4650G to check.

Simply enable AMD fTPM in the UEFI and it works just fine.

btarunr"Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use,"

That's for license activation I suppose

btarunrIn addition, all editions of Windows 11 will require Internet connection to receive updates, and a Microsoft Account for some tasks.

IIRC you have to have Microsoft Account to use Windows starting from Windows 8

TheLostSwedeSimply enable AMD fTPM in the UEFI and it works just fine.

Thanks a lot for the hint. :cool:

XiGMAKiDIIRC you have to have Microsoft Account to use Windows starting from Windows 8

You don't have to have one, even now in Windows 10 Home. You need it to do certain things, like download some apps from the store, but you don't have to have one to use the OS.

The uproar now is because Windows 11 Home will required you to have one just to set up the OS. Though there has been nothing stated that you have to continue to use a Microsoft Account after the initial setup. So there is nothing stopping you from just using a MS Account to setup the OS, then switching to a local account and deleting the MS Account.

My head literally hurts after reading some comments here.
Imagine being bothered so much to create a new email to use Windows, the CORE part of the software on your computer, when you have to create a billion accounts for almost anything right now (Spotify, Gigabyte for support etc etc etc etc).
Also, the ones whining about Microsoft shoving stuff up your throat are also crazy. I have literally never had any issues with Windows 10, even with the forced updates. Last time I had problems were back when Windows 8 launched and the driver support was pretty crappy, but it was OK when 8.1 was released.
If you find creating an account (1 minute) intrusive or frustrating, then don't use it. Easy. You still have 4 more years to use Windows 10.

As long as Pro and Enterprise editions are not affected this way, I don't care (I wouldn't bother with Win11 until it's absolutely necessary).

ParnAs long as Pro and Enterprise editions are not affected this way, I don't care (I wouldn't bother with Win11 until it's absolutely necessary).

Pro and Enterprise will work like before, mainly because companies use them and want to have as much control as possible regarding usage of their PCs.

dyonoctisI remember seeing people complaining about full screen phones and virtual keyboards, how they hated to type on glass... now typing on glass has become the new standard, the kids who grew up with those devices will never understand what the fuss was about.

But was there any choice? No, because making touch only devices was halted and only touch devices remained being manufactured and realistically is that full keyboard on phone is better than touch one and will always be, but since hardly anybody types it's impractical to have a decent keyboard. There was no choice and industry forced their shit onto us. That we didn't become militant, doesn't mean that new technology is necessarily better.

dyonoctisMicrosoft is basically trying stuff out, look what sticks, and eventually get rid of what people didn't ended up using. (wich granted isn't ideal, but the end user doesn't always know what he really needs either.

They did that ever since Windows 8. MS clearly tries to force their shit onto us that we never asked for. And pretty much nobody liked 8, people were ambivalent about 10 and it seems that people don't like 11. Nothing has changed. It's as clear as day that MS is trying to push some crap that nobody wants.

dyonoctisHenry Ford said : "if I asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses")

Poor analogy.

dyonoctisWin 11 won't come with some of win 10 bloatware. Some people hate the xbox gamebar, but after using it, I actually find it more convenient to use and with a lower memory footprint than most after market programs.


Much bloat wow

It doesn't matter if I use it or not, why it's not optional to get rid of it? Microsoft is definitely pushing their game pass and xbl gold, aka nickel and diming at every corner.

dyonoctisI guess that I'm among the people who "grew up like this" when it comes to the Microsoft account being mandatory, in most of my tech life 90% of the software that I use are either not allowing an incognito mode, or offer a limited experience if you choose to go offline. (and since my work/field of study are closely related to social media, I have no choice but to mingle with the GAFAM).

Well, I used Windows XP and 7 a lot. Windows 10 or 11 has absolutely no reason to force you to sign in into some stupid account just to use your goddamn OS. It's stupid and again done probably for extra telemetry and extended nickel and diming.

dyonoctisThe TPM and secure boot is already the default on some "new" laptops. My 2020 Dell inspiron is compatible with win11 with the default settings.

That doesn't mean that TPM requirements isn't stupid. And that only means that MS artificially makes perfectly functional hardware obsolete. That's probably the reason why they are scared to charge people for OS that is clearly dumpster fire.

The red spiritBut was there any choice? No, because making touch only devices was halted and only touch devices remained being manufactured and realistically is that full keyboard on phone is better than touch one and will always be, but since hardly anybody types it's impractical to have a decent keyboard. There was no choice and industry forced their shit onto us. That we didn't become militant, doesn't mean that new technology is necessarily better.

Blackberry and a few other brands stuck with it, but that wasn't enough to make up for the whole experience that a full screen bring/or the added bulk and price wasn't seen as a good trade once people got used to type on glass. They eventually got rid of the keyboard before their ultimate fall. Tell to gen z that hardly anybody type on their smartphones ;). Snapchat turned consistent messaging into a game. It's one case where the benefits of the hardware keyboard wasn't enough

The red spiritPoor analogy.

I wasn't talking about win 11 per say, but in the broader sense of things. You have to take some risk if you want to move foward, asking people what they want won't always translate into a successful business. Nobody asked for a tablet, a lot of forum members mocked the iPad and said that it was going to fail, "laptop are already a thing" and yet here we are. The user care about its immediate needs, a product designer need to anticipate trends and the evolution of usages. A new type of product can create new needs and new habits that the user couldn't have possibly fathomed. This guy is actually making a living with the iPad Pro : www.kylelambert.com/ . He worked for Netflix, Marvel, Disney... A product that nobody asked for, enabled new workflow.

Another example, a few decades ago, electronics device weren't sold with charged battery, and nobody complained about it, it was normal to wait to charge your device before using it. As soon as one guy decided that it wasn't okay and decided to sell devices that were ready to be used out of the box, people realized that it was an issue. (again, I'm not talking about win 11).

The thing with Microsoft is that they are often not very good at anticipating, and their user base is far too broad. The things that might make one side happy, will displease the other side. So there's an "overdose" effect whenever they try something new. Even if the new product/service doesn't break anything, because of that one other product that did break stuff, people are just generally annoyed.

I said this before but yea, those Microsoft account are where they are taking data about how people are using windows....wich doesn't include most "power user" since they are actively fighting it :D most of their data must be from people who don't care about all of that.

Telemetry is a thing because survey have lots of drawbacks : people need to make the effort to answer, if it's too long they won't finish it, if it's too short there isn't enough data, people are not always honest, even on little things, etc... while the ideology of telemetry is very "big-brother" like, it's the most honest feedback that a company can get on their customers.

At the of the day, Microsoft is there to make money. And seeing how little of their revenue Windows represent now, it's almost surprising that they are still trying hard. For what it's worth, if Microsoft decided to drop the ball tomorrow and make windows free and open source/GNU , that would only hurt the vision that they are trying to have with the Xbox + PC, but in the grand scheme of things, it would hardly impact them. (the game pass is actually really great, I've played games that I wouldn't have touched otherwise, the backend is just horrible sometimes)

dyonoctisBlackberry and a few other brands stuck with it, but that wasn't enough to make up for the whole experience that a full screen bring/or the added bulk and price wasn't seen as a good trade once people got used to type on glass. They eventually got rid of the keyboard before their ultimate fall. Tell to gen z that hardly anybody type on their smartphones ;). Snapchat turned consistent messaging into a game. It's one case where the benefits of the hardware keyboard wasn't enough

Blackberry fell, because their phones were shit and they fucked up their launch of app store. Keyboard alone almost had no impact on their failure. And there were other keyboarded phones like Sony X10 Mini Pro, HTC Dream.

dyonoctisI wasn't talking about win 11 per say, but in the broader sense of things. You have to take some risk if you want to move foward, asking people what they want won't always translate into a successful business. Nobody asked for a tablet, a lot of forum members mocked the iPad and said that it was going to fail, "laptop are already a thing" and yet here we are. The user care about its immediate needs, a product designer need to anticipate trends and the evolution of usages. A new type of product can create new needs and new habits that the user couldn't have possibly fathomed. This guy is actually making a living with the iPad Pro : www.kylelambert.com/ . He worked for Netflix, Marvel, Disney... A product that nobody asked for, enabled new workflow.

Making experience ass for majority to make poor experience for super tiny minority is stupid. Windows Mobile and Windows should never be same OS and should be treated so. Just like iOS wasn't Mac OS back in the day. The only reason why they merge them is to reduce development costs of the products into one product. Otherwise, no self respecting developer would ever try to pull this shit. You can't make mobile interface work well on desktop, just like you can't make desktop interface for well on mobile stuff. It's not moving forwards, it's only moving forward in terms of Microsoft finances, about which I don't care.

And btw tablet sales have been pretty much in toilet after initial iPad hype. they became niche thing just like they always were. Even fucking hybrids and 2 in 1s probably outsell them now. So they were stupid device that nobody wanted, but due to Apple clout and hype sold for a while well. Yay. Now they went to their graveyard.

dyonoctisAnother example, a few decades ago, electronics device weren't sold with charged battery, and nobody complained about it, it was normal to wait to charge your device before using it. As soon as one guy decided that it wasn't okay and decided to sell devices that were ready to be used out of the box, people realized that it was an issue. (again, I'm not talking about win 11).

It likely wasn't the reason either. I heard that half charged batteries survive longer in shipping and have lower chance of arriving faulty. Keeping lithium battery flat out empty is likely hurting their lifespan.

dyonoctisThe thing with Microsoft is that they are often not very good at anticipating, and their user base is far too broad. The things that might make one side happy, will displease the other side. So there's an "overdose" effect whenever they try something new. Even if the new product/service doesn't break anything, because of that one other product that did break stuff, people are just generally annoyed.

Pretty much since Windows 7 has been in existential crisis over what it wants to be. To please Karens or to be a proper power user OS, now that is a question.

dyonoctisI said this before but yea, those Microsoft account are where they are taking data about how people are using windows....which doesn't include most "power user" since they are actively fighting it :D most of their data must be from people who don't care about all of that.

In my country at least 70% of Windows users use cracked Windows anyway, so lol

dyonoctisTelemetry is a thing because survey have lots of drawbacks : people need to make the effort to answer, if it's too long they won't finish it, if it's too short there isn't enough data, people are not always honest, even on little things, etc... while the ideology of telemetry is very "big-brother" like, it's the most honest feedback that a company can get on their customers.

Or Microsoft shouldn't have fired their beta testers and QA department, but as long as they save money...

dyonoctisAt the of the day, Microsoft is there to make money. And seeing how little of their revenue Windows represent now, it's almost surprising that they are still trying hard.

They don't even try hard. 11 is just 10 with lipstick. 10 was 7 with lipstick. Vista was 7 beta. XP was just like 95. 8.1 was a real experiment and I could see its appeal, but once they angered office Karens, tablet Karens had to shut up and accept that 10 won't be so tablet oriented.

dyonoctisFor what it's worth, if Microsoft decided to drop the ball tomorrow and make windows free and open source/GNU , that would only hurt the vision that they are trying to have with the Xbox + PC, but in the grand scheme of things, it would hardly impact them. (the game pass is actually really great, I've played games that I wouldn't have touched otherwise, the backend is just horrible sometimes)

Jesus, stop scaring little kids. Microsoft and open source. Sun will sooner hit Earth than Microsoft doing that.


On serious note, Windows RT was pretty good, but it flopped, because there weren't enough quality software on Microsoft store. Now that was a proper tablet OS and it didn't anger desktop users. MS should have just sticked with that and made RT for tablets forever and Windows for office Karens and nerds forever. Xbox shit could be integrated later on both and as suggestion, not as something showed down our throats. All these excuses and rationalization about 11 are just because it's a sucky OS and it won't work all that well on tablet and on desktop. It's a poop solution to both, instead of elegant forking.

XiGMAKiDIIRC you have to have Microsoft Account to use Windows starting from Windows 8

That is incorrect. I have never had nor intend to make a microsoft account and I currently operate Windows 10 and even have an installation of the leaked alpha of 11.