Friday, September 9th 2022

Not All First Generation PCIe 5.0 SSDs Will Offer the Same Performance

The first batch of PCIe 5.0 SSDs are all likely to be based on Phison's PS5026-E26 controller, which offers eight NAND channels, capable of supporting NAND speeds of up to 2400 MT/s. Phison's own figures for the controller are 13 GB/s writes and 12 GB/s reads, with up to 1.5 million random read IOPS and 2 million random write IOPS. However, as we've already seen from various SSD brands, many PCIe 5.0 SSDs won't exceed 10 GB/s when it comes to the sequential read/write speeds. This is because the current NAND flash simply isn't fast enough to saturate the PCIe 5.0 bus, which is capable of 15.75 GB/s. That said, Micron's 232-layer 3D NAND should be able to boost the performance up to 12.4 GB/s based on the numbers Gigabyte announced for their Aorus Gen 10000 SSD.

Based on an article over at Tom's Hardware, we shouldn't expect too many drives that exceed 10 GB/s sequential writes at launch, due to most drives using 176-layer 3D NAND flash, that is limited to 1600 MT/s. As such, it might be wise to hold off on buying the first generation of PCIe 5.0 drives and wait for better availability of 232-layer 3D NAND, as beyond Micron, SK Hynix is expected to have a 238-layer 3D NAND flash in the market sometime in the first half of 2023. If you're not really eager to have the fastest SSD out there for pure bragging rights, it would seem that mid 2023 might be the right time to get a PCIe 5.0 SSD.
Source: Tom's Hardware
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55 Comments on Not All First Generation PCIe 5.0 SSDs Will Offer the Same Performance

#26
Tsukiyomi91
this is why chasing for big numbers will either be impossible or just close enough to it but at increased cost just to get there. I'll be sticking with PCIe Gen4 and saturating the heck out of it.
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#27
diopter
Even Gen 4 drives still have some room for improvement. Let the apes subsidise the development cost of GEN 5 drives early on.
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#28
TheDeeGee
TheLostSwedeThere are plenty of third party options otherwise, but yes, we're getting to a point where it's starting to get hard to cool the controllers.
I ended up getting one of these for my KC3000 SSD, as it was throttling when used with the motherboard heatsinks.
thermalright.com/product/hr-09-2280/
The large heatsinks are an issue.

Maybe time for a motherboard redesign with M.2 slots on the back, plenty of space for a heatsink behind the motherboard tray.
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#29
TheLostSwede
News Editor
TheDeeGeeThe large heatsinks are an issue.

Maybe time for a motherboard redesign with M.2 slots on the back, plenty of space for a heatsink behind the motherboard tray.
That would require new cases though.
So would my idea, where they'd hang off the front edge of the motherboard and use up that empty space in most cases, but then again, that would only work on standard ATX boards.
That heatsink wasn't too big and works really well to cool the drive, even when stress testing it.
The flat bits of aluminium that came with the board, not so much.
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#30
thestryker6
I'm still curious what people are doing that anything above a good PCIe 3.0 drive makes a real difference. 10gbe is roughly 1.2GB/s after overhead which is less than half PCIe 3.0 a prior poster mentioned 120GB/m video which is closer to 2/3 of PCIe 3.0. Sustained reads/writes are a problem for every current SSD (due to caching) and plagues them no matter the interface as does random read/write performance. We need something that rewrites the book for consumer NAND storage overall not just higher sequential burst numbers.
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#31
Panther_Seraphin
Gen 5 makes sense in the Datacenter as the are able to saturate PCI-E 4 already. But in the consumer space its very much overkill!!!
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#32
jigar2speed
Are you telling us that there is a full chance companies can commit scam and legally get away with it ?

I guess i am skipping PCIe 5.0 SSD in that case.
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#33
TheLostSwede
News Editor
jigar2speedAre you telling us that there is a full chance companies can commit scam and legally get away with it ?

I guess i am skipping PCIe 5.0 SSD in that case.
No scam, they simply can't get hold of fast enough NAND flash, so the controller ends up being bandwidth starved.
As such, it's a bad idea getting this first generation of drives, much like many early PCIe 4.0 drives.
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#34
evernessince
DristunWell, I see no reason to store terabytes of music, movies and photographs on an SSD, unless I'm editing in Premiere. In fact, I'm quite curious about HAMR/MAMR hard drives and really want a couple of 20tb ones once they hit the consumer markets.
22TB drives are already on the market. 20TB have been for awhile now.
Panther_SeraphinGen 5 makes sense in the Datacenter as the are able to saturate PCI-E 4 already. But in the consumer space its very much overkill!!!
Heck there's only a small bump for PCIe 3.0 drives over SATA drives in consumer workloads. PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 bring the average person zero benefit (literally). It's not the sequential speed that's going to improve performance for consumers, it's latency and random reads/writes. Something that drive manufacturers haven't really improved on much.
TheDeeGeeThe large heatsinks are an issue.

Maybe time for a motherboard redesign with M.2 slots on the back, plenty of space for a heatsink behind the motherboard tray.
This wouldn't be compatible with every case. You'd be better off going the daughter board route at that point.
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#35
Space Lynx
Astronaut
HisDivineOrderCan't wait until Noctua DH15's are needed to cool them NVME drives.

We can have one on our CPU, one on our GPU, one on each NVME, and suddenly we have six DH15's in our PC's. "All Noctua" suddenly has a whole new meaning.
it would be a sexy monstrosity. i am in.
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#36
Dristun
evernessince22TB drives are already on the market. 20TB have been for awhile now.



Heck there's only a small bump for PCIe 3.0 drives over SATA drives in consumer workloads. PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 bring the average person zero benefit (literally). It's not the sequential speed that's going to improve performance for consumers, it's latency and random reads/writes. Something that drive manufacturers haven't really improved on much.



This wouldn't be compatible with every case. You'd be better off going the daughter board route at that point.
Lol, I'm behind the times. Thanks, cool! Need to see if they're available here.
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#37
Shou Miko
Why doesn't this topic surprise me anymore :confused:

Serious it's been like this even with HDD different performance levels.
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#38
Chrispy_
thestryker6Sustained reads/writes are a problem for every current SSD
It's mostly just writing that is the problem.

Even shit-tier, DRAMless, QLC, budget SSDs can generally sustain decent read speeds. Maybe don't expect high IOPS and low latency but they can sequentially stream gigabytes a second for practically their entire capacity.
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#39
RJARRRPCGP
Just like how the early SATA SSDs had different speeds at the drive level.
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#40
RogueSix
TheDeeGeeThe large heatsinks are an issue.

Maybe time for a motherboard redesign with M.2 slots on the back, plenty of space for a heatsink behind the motherboard tray.
ASUS has already had mainboards with at least one m.2 slot on the back of the board a while ago but it seems like they discontinued putting it there for some reason. I don't think you really need a heatsink on the board's back side for normal use. It will be much cooler than the slot under the graphics card. The back of the board is usually very cool compared to everything on the front.

I believe it would be great if mainboard makers would revisit the concept because, yes, thermals are going to be an increasing problem with faster SSDs. The top PCIe 4.0 drives already get close to the thermal limits even when "only" gaming if they are installed in the top slot under a RTX 3090.
The 25mm width might help a little, but in the long run, I figure we will need a redesign with riser cards or a switch to PCIe cards with active cooling and more than 16 PCIe slot lanes on the boards so that a SSD card won't take away lanes from the GPU.
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#41
TheLostSwede
News Editor
RJARRRPCGPJust like how the early SATA SSDs had different speeds at the drive level.
It was very different back then, as we had half a dozen controller makers.
All of the first generation of PCIe 4.0 SSD's were based around a single controller from Phison and the same appears to be true for the first generation of PCIe 5.0 SSD's.
The competition is simply not keeping up with Phison when it comes to releasing new products.
As far as the drive makers are concerned, it comes down to who can source what NAND flash, the ones that get the good stuff, will have the faster drives.
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#42
evernessince
DristunLol, I'm behind the times. Thanks, cool! Need to see if they're available here.
18TB is the current price / performance winner if you are looking at buying now. There's a steep up-charge for 22TB drives and a smaller but definitely noticeable up-charge for 20TB.

I would not buy above 18TB unless you absolutely need the space now. The price of the higher capacity drives tend to drop pretty sharply until they go under $280 and then their value starts retaining better.

I do really wish there we could see larger consumer facing SSDs than 8TB and with reasonable price tags.
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#43
Frank_100
Hyderzim more interested what kind of cooling components attachments provided by motherboard manufacturers
to combat the massive heat output by the drives at max speed... pci 3.0 drives already get pretty hot and needs an aluminium heatsink on.
It may be time for a redesign of the fishtank pc.

Maybe not he whole machine, just the motherboard, memory, SSD's, & CPU.
Posted on Reply
#44
AsRock
TPU addict
News flash, not every thing is equal.
Posted on Reply
#45
evernessince
RogueSixASUS has already had mainboards with at least one m.2 slot on the back of the board a while ago but it seems like they discontinued putting it there for some reason. I don't think you really need a heatsink on the board's back side for normal use. It will be much cooler than the slot under the graphics card. The back of the board is usually very cool compared to everything on the front.

I believe it would be great if mainboard makers would revisit the concept because, yes, thermals are going to be an increasing problem with faster SSDs. The top PCIe 4.0 drives already get close to the thermal limits even when "only" gaming if they are installed in the top slot under a RTX 3090.
The 25mm width might help a little, but in the long run, I figure we will need a redesign with riser cards or a switch to PCIe cards with active cooling and more than 16 PCIe slot lanes on the boards so that a SSD card won't take away lanes from the GPU.
They stopped doing that because 1) It's not compatible with the majority of cases that people own 2) The back of the board has to rely entirely on passive dissipation. Even with hotter air, actively cooled is far superior. The only exception might be an M.2 slot that's placed right under your GPU exhaust. Then again that's a combination of GPU choice and board design so part of that is on the user.
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#46
nguyen
I still haven't found valid reason to buy PCIe gen4 NVME, now gen5 is coming out?
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#48
tetrapak
Dirt ChipNo 15GB\sec - no buy. I can't stand those turtle like 10-12GB\sec drives.
Tru dat. For a regular home usage, there’s no difference even between sata and PCIe 3.0 , they are speaking about 15GB\sec.
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#49
evernessince
R0H1TI mean how do you expect them to continue making (insane) profits? The regular low(er) end SSD prices have sunk below ground level ~ Silicon Power A55 2 TB SATA SSD Now $103 at Amazon
That's nice but unfortunately the savings per TB don't translate to the higher capacity models. 8TB (Samsung is the only company with 8TB consumer facing models) is still $87.50 / TB and that's considering it's QVO which has lower endurance.

The rate at which SSD price per TB has been decreasing has been extremely slow and that's in light of the fact that endurance continues to decline. Someone is going to have innovate in the field because continuously reducing endurance is not a sustainable path towards cost effective larger capacity SSDs. File sizes continue to increase so you cannot expect customers to buy SSDs of raising capacity but continuously diminishing endurance (mind you this will play over 10+ years).
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#50
TheoneandonlyMrK
thestryker6I'm still curious what people are doing that anything above a good PCIe 3.0 drive makes a real difference. 10gbe is roughly 1.2GB/s after overhead which is less than half PCIe 3.0 a prior poster mentioned 120GB/m video which is closer to 2/3 of PCIe 3.0. Sustained reads/writes are a problem for every current SSD (due to caching) and plagues them no matter the interface as does random read/write performance. We need something that rewrites the book for consumer NAND storage overall not just higher sequential burst numbers.
Once you get close to filling up a drive they're all a bit lackluster in reality and most don't buy double what they want to use!?.
jigar2speedAre you telling us that there is a full chance companies can commit scam and legally get away with it ?

I guess i am skipping PCIe 5.0 SSD in that case.
This s makes it sound like you are not aware that every generation of nvme storage drive has had products that differ wildly within the available speed, pciex4 and 3 had the widest range from top to bottom.
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