ValantarThat's true - but all the more of an argument for the standard configuration to strike more of a balance, especially as performance-hungry enthusiasts are far more likely to know how to tune things than anyone else. And across hundreds of thousands if not millions of CPUs sold to everyone else every year, the difference in overall energy usage would be meaningful, while the performance difference wouldn't be noticeable for most of these users.

hs4This shows each manufacturer's share of the passmark sample as of October 1. Mobile CPUs are currently the mainstay of the client sector, and open data was already showing signs of depression.

I posted this elsewhere last week and the kind folks politely explained how wrong I was, using 2021 data.

LFaWolfI don't think this is an accurate reflection of market share. First, Alder Lake was launched last year and has been around for 10 months now. The new AMD gen just launched. So what are the AMD 20% CPU samples made up of? Second, perhaps AMD users that run whatever Passmark benchmark this is based on, already did that in 2021, and the majority of the benchmarks run were done by Alder Lake users in 2022?

hs4My tally is based on the launch date of each SKUs. All the Intel's and AMD's CPUs in "2022 gen." category are announced at the same date, CES 2022 in January:
Intel: Alder lake-H/HX/P/U **does not include desktop model
AMD: Rembrandt (Ryzen 6000 series) and Barcelo (Ryzen 5xx5U) **Barcelo's internal code is same to Cezanne (Ryzen 5xx0U/H), both shares "CZN"

hs4My tally is based on the launch date of each SKUs. All the Intel's and AMD's CPUs in "2022 gen." category are announced at the same date, CES 2022 in January:
Intel: Alder lake-H/HX/P/U **does not include desktop model
AMD: Rembrandt (Ryzen 6000 series) and Barcelo (Ryzen 5xx5U) **Barcelo's internal code is same to Cezanne (Ryzen 5xx0U/H), both shares "CZN"

RandallFlaggSo, your chart isn't wrong exactly, but not sure what it's supposed to prove that can't be shown from market share stats.

Intel has been gaining desktop market share since Q3 2020. This is one of the things I suspect a lot people don't know, but the information is out there.

Intel's Mobile share started losing share in Q2 2021, after AMD dipped a bit in 2020. That dip was probably due to insufficient supply, Intel was in its element churning out mass quantities of CPUs in 2020. Intel's server segment has been losing market share since Q3 2018.

RandallFlaggSo, your chart isn't wrong exactly, but not sure what it's supposed to prove that can't be shown from market share stats.

Intel has been gaining desktop market share since Q3 2020. This is one of the things I suspect a lot people don't know, but the information is out there.

Intel's Mobile share started losing share in Q2 2021, after AMD dipped a bit in 2020. That dip was probably due to insufficient supply, Intel was in its element churning out mass quantities of CPUs in 2020. Intel's server segment has been losing market share since Q3 2018.

the54thvoidThe PC component industry is out of touch with its user base. That's the problem. Specifically though, I see it as a GPU manufacturing problem. PSU, RAM, Storage options; these items, arguably, have far longer lifespans. But with GPU's (I feel) we're being pushed to upgrade, and companies are inventing/creating new gimmicks to justify their new, expensive products. Yeah, I mean Nvidia.

They'll need to readjust expectations. And we as consumers ought to vote with our wallets. Hypocrisy from a 2080ti owner, I know, but that was my one extravagant splurge.

AsRockOut of touch for sure, like who in the hell wants to upgrade from a AM4 to a AM5 platform when the motherboards are like $250+ DDR5 requirement. In fact by the looks of it sales are really good for AM4 still today.

The cost is crazy to upgrade even more so when i could just pick up a 5800X3D and call it a day.

They never expected this and at the very least should of had DDR4 compatibility and actually made the IHS right in the 1st place, as i know i don't want to deal with the bad cooling with only one real option to keep it cool is to void the warranty.

I gett he feeling people are settling in on whats good enough. Even if i was to replace my other PC i still build another AM4 platform, AM5 is just not worth it.

AsRockOut of touch for sure, like who in the hell wants to upgrade from a AM4 to a AM5 platform when the motherboards are like $250+ DDR5 requirement. In fact by the looks of it sales are really good for AM4 still today.

lexluthermiesterIt should be noted that revenue for this year is down for nearly everyone in this industry.. AMD is hardly alone.

RandallFlaggI'm also seeing that none of the B650 boards will have PCIe 5 x16 based on AMDs high level diagrams of B650 connectivity. It appears this is at AMDs behest since there's no technical reason I can think of why it couldn't exist as that connectivity comes from the CPU, not the chipset.

RandallFlaggTo make matters a bit worse, the bandwidth to the chipset on all of the AMD Zen 4 chipsets is half of what it is to a Z690 or Z790. You could literally saturate that chipset<->CPU bus with a single PCIe 4 x4 m.2 SSD. So all of those connections its capable of driving are nice, as long as you only use a couple of those devices at once. Meanwhile most of the PCIe 5 lanes are not used.

ValantarNo, it's a cost issue. PCIe 5.0 requires more PCB layers and higher quality board materials. AMD fully allows for PCIe 5.0 on B650 if board makers want to implement it - it just doesn't make sense in terms of price.

ValantarThat's true - but hardly relevant in real world use cases. No, you won't have a good time running concurrent sequential benchmarks on several chipset-connected SSDs, but for anything else, that's plenty of bandwidth even if you have, say, a 4k120 capture card + the SSD that capture is being written to both connected through the chipset. Very few real world use cases actually utilize anywhere near a full PCIe 4.0x4 link for any significant amount of time.

pressing onsome financial analysts are claiming that AMD is likely to have made a loss for Q3 2022.

R0H1TThere's almost zero chance for that, they'd have to lose in the console segment/GPU's & Xilinx for a (total) net loss!

RandallFlaggTo add, If you look into the details of the AM5 platform / chipset / motherboard features, really most of the major feature sets that sets AM5 apart from AM4 are only available to the very high end motherboards so far.

As example, the lower end X670 motherboards don't have a PCI 5 x16 slot, they're using PCIe 4 x16 apparently to save on cost. Most of them will simply have a PCIe 4 x16 and one PCIe 5 x4 to CPU.

I'm also seeing that none of the B650 boards will have PCIe 5 x16 based on AMDs high level diagrams of B650 connectivity. It appears this is at AMDs behest since there's no technical reason I can think of why it couldn't exist as that connectivity comes from the CPU, not the chipset.

To make matters a bit worse, the bandwidth to the chipset on all of the AMD Zen 4 chipsets is half of what it is to a Z690 or Z790. You could literally saturate that chipset<->CPU bus with a single PCIe 4 x4 m.2 SSD. So all of those connections its capable of driving are nice, as long as you only use a couple of those devices at once. Meanwhile most of the PCIe 5 lanes are not used.

Basically unless you get a $450+ motherboard, a bunch of what you pay for with Zen 4 \ AM5 is going to waste.

So with that backdrop, it makes total sense that the two best selling AM5 motherboards at Microcenter are a $699 X670E Crosshair Hero and the $999 Crosshair Extreme. I pulled this up for multiple locations across the country and these are always the two most popular :

cvaldesTheoretically it's possible that AMD motherboard vendors are selling lots of AM4 motherboards, but you still need to drop a processor into them. What are these people doing? Dropping in previously owned CPUs?

AMD's Client business missed by $1B in revenue. That means they didn't sell a bunch of Zen 3 (Ryzen 5000 series) parts: both desktop and mobile.

AsRockYou have tons of options going for AM4 and ram prices are really nice too, Hell a old? Zen2 chip will meet most peoples needs and they are fairly cheap too, well you can get the 3900X for $350 with cooler shipped and if your just a gamer your talking a lot less than that.

LFaWolfMaybe there will be major price cut of AM4 and AM5 in the coming months. That would be awesome

RandallFlaggDo they? Have you looked at AMDs official B650 block diagram? If they allow it and it's up to the manufacturer, why would that diagram show it as PCIe 4 x16?

RandallFlaggSo PCIe 5 isn't really useful is the argument, but we need to pay for it anyway right.

RandallFlaggIn any case, I don't really agree with you. There's a super common daily use for high chipset bandwidth. It's called doing a backup.

ARFMore awesome would be if we get the graphics cards back to normal. Because they are anything but normal now. :banghead: :mad:

A 335-mm^2 chip today:



vs a 366-mm^2 chip back in 2015:

ValantarThis is hardly a surprise, nor just caused by greed. BOM costs for GPUs are massively higher, not only due to ~2-3x cost increases for many materials, but these GPUs have much more VRAM, much more expensive VRAM, beefier (and more expensive) VRMs, higher quality PCBs to accommodate higher speed VRAM and PCIe, and of course TSMC 7nm is still a rather expensive process node, while TSMC 28nm was cheap even when new, and especially four years into mass production. TSMC has also been raising prices due to running out of capacity, which pushes things even further.

Chip production isn't as simple as saying "the same die area should cost the same over time" - you need to take other factors into consideration as well, and you really can't ignore the BOM cost increases from more and more advanced componentry. That doesn't mean the last generation of GPUs isn't overpriced - it is, and it was clearly not designed for cost optimization. There is still quite a bit that can be done to bring down prices at the design and development stages (lowering PCB quality requirements through design tweaks; narrowing RAM buses, etc.), but some of that has also already been done.

ValantarB650 and X670 are PEG PCIe 4.0 minimum; B650E and X670E are PEG PCIe 5.0 minimum. All platforms can support m.2 PCIe 5.0 - though this depends on the board implementation, obviously. As the similarly named chipsets are otherwise identical in terms of features, B650E is B650 with PCIe 5.0.

you need to take other factors into consideration as well, and you really can't ignore the BOM cost increases from more and more advanced componentry.