I'm in need of a gpu upgrade that I've been putting off for 2 years, so for folks like me it's a tough spot still. 7900 XTX at $1k and don't worry about RT, or wait for a 4090ti with a TBD date that'll probably be $2k+. And with 4080/4090s (and 7900 XTX ftm) still tough to find there isn't a big driver for Nvidia to rush the 4090ti. Whichever direction I end up going it won't be from a scalper regardless, I can be quick enough to snag one direct and have for other PCs over the past couple years. I just wish there was a better green option than the meh we have now.

3 time faster in RTX? Oh boy, instead of 2fps you now have 6fps, for double the worth price.
Awesome!

WCCFTech:

[URL='https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-official-benchmarks-leak-out-as-fast-as-the-rtx-3090-ti-but-40-of-the-msrp/']NVIDIA RTX 4070 Ti Official Benchmarks Leak Out – As Fast As The RTX 3090 Ti But 40% Of The MSRP[/URL]

“The official MSRP of the card is $799, which is $1200 less than the $1999 MSRP of the RTX 3090 Ti.”

Do the review and news sites really have no shame?

We all know RTX 3090 Ti came out at the height of cryptomadness. After the miners completely stopped buying the cards, the MSRP fell, first to $1500, then to $1150, and cards were even sold below that, at $1000 in USA, at 50% of original MSRP… The price went up of course when the RTX 4080 came out, with the terrible price / performance ratio.

The conclusion:

“While the RTX 4090 sold like hot cakes considering the value proposition it was giving on a TFLOPs/$ basis, the RTX 4080 did not do well at all considering the bad price point. The RTX 4070 Ti is much much closer to the value proposition that the RTX 4090 made and should sell much better as well.”

Only because you compare it to scalped price levels! And I seriously doubt RTX 4070 Ti will be “as fast as 3090 Ti” - by TechPowerUp numbers 4080 16GB is only 2% faster than 3090 Ti in 1440p, 4% in 4K - undetectable without benchmarking. What are the odds 4070 Ti being as fast at $500 less?

So, remember when W1zzard wrote in RTX 4080 review that we have to compare it to scalped price levels of Ampere, not “fake” $699 MSRP of 3080? A line that he then removed from conclusion? Will the shenanigans return with RTX 4070 Ti review, this time someone will be able to use “real 3090 Ti MSRP”? And then tell us he wasn’t pressured by Nvidia to tell such blatant lies at all?

4070 Ti is 25% slower than 4080 merely because it has more than 25% of its bandwidth and ROP cut off with only the CUDA core to make up for it and this places it derectly in the vicinity of 3080 Ti.
the curious case here is 4090 that is barely 25% faster in games and people are paying an exorbitant amounts of money for it currently no less than 2199. In this case 4070 Ti is actually a very good deal.

N/A4070 Ti is 25% slower than 4080 merely because it has more than 25% of its bandwidth and ROP cut off with only the CUDA core to make up for it and this places it derectly in the vicinity of 3080 Ti.
the curious case here is 4090 that is barely 25% faster in games and people are paying an exorbitant amounts of money for it currently no less than 2199. In this case 4070 Ti is actually a very good deal.

Apples to oranges. The 4090 is a card meant for 4K, the 4070 Ti is geared for 1440P.

Bwaze

WCCFTech:

[URL='https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-official-benchmarks-leak-out-as-fast-as-the-rtx-3090-ti-but-40-of-the-msrp/']NVIDIA RTX 4070 Ti Official Benchmarks Leak Out – As Fast As The RTX 3090 Ti But 40% Of The MSRP[/URL]

“The official MSRP of the card is $799, which is $1200 less than the $1999 MSRP of the RTX 3090 Ti.”

Do the review and news sites really have no shame?

We all know RTX 3090 Ti came out at the height of cryptomadness. After the miners completely stopped buying the cards, the MSRP fell, first to $1500, then to $1150, and cards were even sold below that, at $1000 in USA, at 50% of original MSRP… The price went up of course when the RTX 4080 came out, with the terrible price / performance ratio.

The conclusion:

“While the RTX 4090 sold like hot cakes considering the value proposition it was giving on a TFLOPs/$ basis, the RTX 4080 did not do well at all considering the bad price point. The RTX 4070 Ti is much much closer to the value proposition that the RTX 4090 made and should sell much better as well.”

Only because you compare it to scalped price levels! And I seriously doubt RTX 4070 Ti will be “as fast as 3090 Ti” - by TechPowerUp numbers 4080 16GB is only 2% faster than 3090 Ti in 1440p, 4% in 4K - undetectable without benchmarking. What are the odds 4070 Ti being as fast at $500 less?

So, remember when W1zzard wrote in RTX 4080 review that we have to compare it to scalped price levels of Ampere, not “fake” $699 MSRP of 3080? A line that he then removed from conclusion? Will the shenanigans return with RTX 4070 Ti review, this time someone will be able to use “real 3090 Ti MSRP”? And then tell us he wasn’t pressured by Nvidia to tell such blatant lies at all?

Let's do some maths, then...

• The 3090 Ti is 22% faster than the 3080.
• The 3080's launch price was $699.
• So, compared to the 3080, the 4070 Ti will be 22% faster and 14% more expensive.

They can compare the performance of the new mid-range to the last high-end, but never the price! This is classical 40-series price/performance stagnation, all over again. :banghead:

Why_Me4090 is a card meant for 4K

And for 8k too. From 1-2 years I'm waiting for 4320P ranking here in GPU database:

evernessince1 FPS is less than 10% of 11. The 3070 is not 10% the performance of a 3090, that should go without saying.

It's irrelevant if RTX 3070 scales much worse than RTX 3090 when both fail to obtain a playable framerate at these settings. This is a basic logical flaw in the arguments of both you and ZoneDymo, you fail to understand that you are arguing about unrealistic scenarios which create artificial bottlenecks. Stop making fools of yourselves. No one should buy GPUs based on use cases which are completely irrelevant to them. This is basic common sense.

The truth about RTX 4070 Ti will be revealed in the reviews, and whether its resources are well balanced or not will become obvious. But if you need to push loads so heavy that the card is nowhere close to a decent frame rate anyways to reveal a memory bottleneck, then it's utterly irrelevant anyways.

efikkanIt's irrelevant if RTX 3070 scales much worse than RTX 3090 when both fail to obtain a playable framerate at these settings. This is a basic logical flaw in the arguments of both you and ZoneDymo, you fail to understand that you are arguing about unrealistic scenarios which create artificial bottlenecks. Stop making fools of yourselves. No one should buy GPUs based on use cases which are completely irrelevant to them. This is basic common sense.

The truth about RTX 4070 Ti will be revealed in the reviews, and whether its resources are well balanced or not will become obvious. But if you need to push loads so heavy that the card is nowhere close to a decent frame rate anyways to reveal a memory bottleneck, then it's utterly irrelevant anyways.

You are the one who make the argument that cards bottleneck at memory bandwidth or compute first, the scaling demonstrated proves otherwise. You can't disprove that so you try to move the goal posts and say performance doesn't matter.

You do realize that the 3070 gets 9 FPS at 1440p in the linked benchmark right?

You gonna tell me that's an unrealistic load for what is still the latest xx70 card on the market?

It's a $500 GPU that most people payed over $1,000 for. That kind of performance is unacceptable for a card that's still the newest xx 70 card on the market and especially considering the price.

What you are essentially saying is that even spending that kind of money you are not guaranteed even playable performance in all titles for a single generation anymore.

What a great precedent to defend. You do you though.

evernessinceYou are the one who make the argument that cards bottleneck at memory bandwidth or compute first, the scaling demonstrated proves otherwise. You can't disprove that so you try to move the goal posts and say performance doesn't matter.

You do realize that the 3070 gets 9 FPS at 1440p in the linked benchmark right?

You gonna tell me that's an unrealistic load for what is still the latest xx70 card on the market?

It's a $500 GPU that most people payed over $1,000 for. That kind of performance is unacceptable for a card that's still the newest xx 70 card on the market and especially considering the price.

What you are essentially saying is that even spending that kind of money you are not guaranteed even playable performance in all titles for a single generation anymore.

What a great precedent to defend. You do you though.

Is that argument still about Portal RTX? You do realize that it's a tech demo specifically designed to run well only on the latest Nvidia cards, right?

AusWolfIs that argument still about Portal RTX? You do realize that it's a tech demo specifically designed to run well only on the latest Nvidia cards, right?

It's a fully functional game. Tech demos are not fully functional games. It presumably won't the be first either, that's the whole point of RTX Remix.

P4-630

I'm thinking this card will sit in between the 3080 Ti and 3090 at 1440P when the reviews are done.

These things are not by accident...

89 posts. Wasn't expecting so many posts here.

I have to admit I haven't read the thread, but, with Nvidia controlling 90% of the market, AMD's RDNA3 looking as a failure to at least create some positive news for AMD, Nvidia selling fake frames that most tech sites describe as something positive, because those extra frames can make games look more smooth, is there anything of real interest in the GPU market? Will there be anything interesting in the next 2 years? Even Intel is not in any kind of rush. They don't need to be competitive to AMD or Nvidia to sell everything they build to OEMs.

So, Nvidia will keep selling as many GPUs as it can make, prices will keep going up generation after generation and people will be blaming AMD for that, instead of Nvidia (my God...). Then AMD's FSR 3 will be announced and we will start looking analysis after analysis about which method of generating fake frames is better. Prices will remain high for everything that has an MSRP over $600, cheaper models will just be the same performance/$ as those that we have now and the whole debate will be if lower power consumption and DLSS 3/FSR 3 are enough to be justified as progress.

Welcome to stagnation people.



What? Ah yes, it's AMD's fault. Of course.

If you want a competing environment in both CPUs and GPUs, you need AMD, because there is no one else to help you get that. AMD's Bulldozer architecture was the reason Intel kept selling quad cores for ages and Ryzen the reason they rush to start integrating as many cores as they could in their CPUs. AMD's stagnation with GCN was the reason Nvidia increased it's market share, RDNA the reason Nvidia had to increase their efforts to be able to offer today something like the RTX 4090 no matter the wattage.

But let's not forget something. Intel and Nvidia are two much more powerful companies. They decide prices, they decide performance at a specific price point, they control the market, they control the press. Not AMD. AMD is just fighting against two bigger companies at the same time. And please, we are consumers. Do we want good stuff at the right price? Then STOP DEFENDING THE BIG COMPANIES. It's not about AMD, Intel or Nvidia peeps. It's about what performance/$ we wish to enjoy as consumers, gamers, enthusiasts, professionals.

evernessinceIt's a fully functional game. Tech demos are not fully functional games. It presumably won't the be first either, that's the whole point of RTX Remix.

Portal is a fully functional game. Portal RTX is just an unnecessary graphical upgrade made by Nvidia for Nvidia cards - a tech demo disguised as a game, if you will.

john_If you want a competing environment in both CPUs and GPUs, you need AMD, because there is no one else to help you get that. AMD's Bulldozer architecture was the reason Intel kept selling quad cores for ages and Ryzen the reason they rush to start integrating as many cores as they could in their CPUs. AMD's stagnation with GCN was the reason Nvidia increased it's market share, RDNA the reason Nvidia had to increase their efforts to be able to offer today something like the RTX 4090 no matter the wattage.

But let's not forget something. Intel and Nvidia are two much more powerful companies. They decide prices, they decide performance at a specific price point, they control the market, they control the press. Not AMD. AMD is just fighting against two bigger companies at the same time. And please, we are consumers. Do we want good stuff at the right price? Then STOP DEFENDING THE BIG COMPANIES. It's not about AMD, Intel or Nvidia peeps. It's about what performance/$ we wish to enjoy as consumers, gamers, enthusiasts, professionals.

People will keep buying expensive Nvidia cards with stagnating value until the top end starts to cost $10k, and even the low end becomes unobtainable for casual gamers.

Then, the only thing left to say will be "told 'ya".

AusWolfPeople will keep buying expensive Nvidia cards with stagnating value until the top end starts to cost $10k, and even the low end becomes unobtainable for casual gamers.

Then, the only thing left to say will be "told 'ya".

There's always AMD.

Why_MeThere's always AMD.

If they manage to stay competitive... but even then, there's a whole bunch of "the way it's meant to be played" fans who would never ever consider buying an AMD card. I don't really see the opposite.

(because DLSS is sooo much better at worsening your game's image quality when you could also play at native resolution, of course) :roll:

AusWolfThen, the only thing left to say will be "told 'ya".

Probably most troll accounts (I am not referring to anyone in this thread) will stop posting and new clean accounts will emerge, controlled from the same people who where running those troll accounts, saying that they where supporting competition all those years. Others will just keep blaming AMD for their incompetence to compete. Others will remind us that for a week they had an AMD product in their possession, more than enough proof that they are not biased. "Told ya so". To whom? We don't know each other. We are practically anonymous.

Why_MeThere's always AMD.

As a foot note most of the times.

Posters.
AMD builds Ryzen. More cores than Intel. For years single threaded performance is king.
AMD builds better Ryzen chips. Higher IPC, much better efficiency. Who cares about wattage?
Intel comes out with Alder Lake. Core count is king now. Who cares if most cores are E cores?
In the past Intel motherboards where expensive. Platform pricing was secondary. Today a reason to avoid AM5.

Tech sites.
RX 6500XT comes out in a period where NO ONE could buy a graphics card at MSRP. Tech press rushes to attack the product in any way possible.
GTX 1630 comes out. Many sites avoid even mentioning it. Not to upset Nvidia probably. Not to throw any kind of shadow on that Nvidia logo.
AMD drops prices on RX 6000 series from the most expensive model to the lowest one. No articles. Just foot notes on articles praising the price reduction on RTX 3090 Ti from ridiculously expensive to just expensive. Nvidia doesn't drop prices to mid/low end cards. Tech sites publish articles where they are praising the fact that "Nvidia dropped prices". Again it is about 3090/Ti cards, but the titles are made to give the impression that all Nvidia cards see price reductions.

I could be writting for hours. I'll just stop here.

Stay on topic.
Stop the insults, trolling, and other guideline violations.

How many more warnings are required? Next OT post not talking about the 4070ti gets heavily infracted. Stop acting worse than children.

I think we should just all agree the 4070 Ti will outsell the competition, and that will annoy many.

/thread

FluffmeisterI think we should just all agree the 4070 Ti will outsell the competition

I don't think that there is anyone who thinks otherwise. Nvidia owns 90% of the market, so it's safe to assume that 4070 Ti will probably outsell 7900XT/X, 9 to 1.

john_We have the new 4070 ti model, a model that based on that "70" many where expecting/hoping to see at $500 a few months ago, coming at $800. And that's even optimistic considering there was a chance it was coming at $900, where the 4080 12GB was, if I am not mistaken. How do we get here? How do Nvidia expects to sell a 70 model at that price level? Is tech press a parameter here? My personal opinion is that it is. If readers/viewers read/hear a half full glass conclusion "expensive, but fast, justifies it's price based on market conditions", they will buy it. If they read/hear a half empty glass conclusion "fast, but expensive, don't buy it before a price drop", they might avoid it.

Exactly.

Writing that the price increase is justified by the great performance increase - when almost every generation in the long history of 3D graphics cards featured similar performance increase without the price increase can only be explained as tech press acting as a company PR, not an independent reviewer.