Hi,
Educators not very educated on devises lifespan
Then add children in there lol :laugh:

Expecting CBs to last that long is madness and not because they're cheap but because, you know, children.
Rugged MIL-STD-810H certified laptops wouldn't last 3 years.

Disgrace. Cheap chromebooks, cheap lifespan.
Minimum 5 year warranty machines should be procured.
And yes, durable hardware and quality costs more.

AGlezBExpecting CBs to last that long is madness and not because they're cheap but because, you know, children.

I disagree. Many cheap designs have built-in obsolescence.
Instead, laptop designers should be thinking of long-term use beyond 5 years.

AGlezBExpecting CBs to last that long is madness and not because they're cheap but because, you know, children.
Rugged MIL-STD-810H certified laptops wouldn't last 3 years.

The report is addressing issues of spare part availability, ease of repair and software support, not how durable a device is against impacts. Arguments for repairability implicitly assume devices will break.
To quote the report:

We identified three key drivers of the Chromebook Churn:
1. Manufacturers typically do not sell new spare parts or otherwise support repair.
2. Computers have a built-in “death date,” after which software support ends.
3. Design choices frustrate repair and reuse.

In the detailed breakdown of these scores, there are sub scores that assign a number out of 20 measuring repairability across five categories:
documentation, disassembly, availability of spare parts, price of spare parts, and laptop-specific criteria.

You can read this -partially- as another chapter in the right-to-repair saga, and partially in the context of (software) planned-obsolescence BS that plagues the android smartphone market.

Hi,
They opted for these devises because apple products were to much but long term were they really
Guess we'll never know they're stuck with andriod eco now :oops:

ThrashZoneHi,
They opted for these devises because apple products were to much but long term were they really
Guess we'll never know they're stuck with andriod eco now :oops:

I understand the sentiment but in this case I don't think it would have mattered if it were a android or Apple device. Kids are very hard on their tech which means you essentially need a ruggedized version if you want it to last any amount of time. Products intended for use in schools need to be designed with a long life-cycle and be highly recyclable given the quantities we are talking about.

This isnt the fault of Google.

working in education let me tell you the #1 reason these chromebooks get disposed of is kids. They DESTROY these things. Punching screens, bending chassis, ripping keys off of keyboards, breaking the hinges over their legs. Of course, the little darlins are just handed another chromebook because they're POOR and we cant take away their education! Our district already threw out 1/3rd as many chromebooks as we have students, in a single year. It was 1/2 as many chromebooks as kids in 2021. This is the result of replacing discipline with empathy, and punishment with feelings. (our current record is 10 chromebooks. In a single school year. For a single student. He is currently on #11.)

As for parts: any halfway intelligent district will keep the broken ones and rip all the useful parts. We have repaired 14,000 chromebooks in the last 3 years, not once did we buy parts. 100% of our stock comes from broken ones, and we still have remaining parts. If you do need to buy them, there are websites out there that sell these parts, sometimes in bulk, and things like the 11" screens are common items found in multiple devices (every single 11" lenovo educational chromebook can use the same screen, as can 11" dell, acer, and asus models.)

The only thing google can be held on is the updates lasting 5 years, which made total sense a decade ago as tech was advancing, but now it should be longer. To be fair, most educational models get 7 years now.

ShihabThe report is addressing issues of spare part availability, ease of repair and software support, not how durable a device is against impacts. Arguments for repairability implicitly assume devices will break.
To quote the report:



You can read this -partially- as another chapter in the right-to-repair saga, and partially in the context of (software) planned-obsolescence BS that plagues the android smartphone market.

The report is also a little sus. That picture they include for devices limited lifespan? It has dell E5400 series laptops in it. Those are A) not chromebooks and B) 7-8 years old now.

evernessinceI understand the sentiment but in this case I don't think it would have mattered if it were a android or Apple device. Kids are very hard on their tech which means you essentially need a ruggedized version if you want it to last any amount of time. Products intended for use in schools need to be designed with a long life-cycle and be highly recyclable given the quantities we are talking about.

Reparability is more important then ruggedization. The screen is the #1 culprit behind replacement chromebooks, keyboards a close 2nd. No amount of being rugged will fix those. Making it take less then 2 minutes to swap them, OTOH, will be a huge boon to IT.

TheinsanegamerNThe report is also a little sus. That picture they include for devices limited lifespan? It has dell E5400 series laptops in it. Those are A) not chromebooks and B) 7-8 years old now.

Which picture?

ShihabWhich picture?

pirg.org/edfund/resources/chromebook-churn-report-highlights-problems-of-short-lived-laptops-in-schools/

I sourced the images directly from the PIRC's article and report. The photos were taken by Peter Mui.
I'm not sure if their team members are technically minded when it comes to telling the difference between laptops, or that their campaigner is simply trying to illustrate that schools are having to deal with stacks of ancient hardware in general...

This issue applies to all computers in a large organization. Dell, Lenovo, and HP enterprise laptops are "end of support" 5 years after they're discontinued. Firmware updates for security vulnerabilities are nearly a monthly occurrence now and once a model hits that part of their life cycle, they are left vulnerable. For this reason and others, IT departments need to dispose/recycle them at this point even if they're in good condition and meeting recommended system requirements.

MacBooks seem to get a slightly longer period of support (Apple never publishes this until it happens), but when that support period ends, you also loose OS/app support because Apple is providing that instead of a third-party like Microsoft.

I would like to see governments mandate a minimum of 10 years before end of support on all computers.

TheinsanegamerNReparability is more important then ruggedization. The screen is the #1 culprit behind replacement chromebooks, keyboards a close 2nd. No amount of being rugged will fix those. Making it take less then 2 minutes to swap them, OTOH, will be a huge boon to IT.

A screen with additional impact resistance and a keyboard that's water and crumb / crud proof along with being easy to clean would all go a long way to increasing device longevity.

That said I don't think it's worth arguing over which is more important but rather that all the above be addressed because a product would preferably be easy to repair and have a long lifespan before repairs are required.

I'm probably the only one on a tech forum that thinks kids needs to stay away from computers until they are 15 or something.
So much to learn that doesn't involve computers and it's not that kids who learned with computers are any better at IT than the generation before them.
It's worse.

kondaminI'm probably the only one on a tech forum that thinks kids needs to stay away from computers until they are 15 or something.
So much to learn that doesn't involve computers and it's not that kids who learned with computers are any better at IT than the generation before them.
It's worse.

you basically just ensured my IT career never started.

R-T-Byou basically just ensured my IT career never started.

who Knows, you might have spent more time on something beneficial to your career.

kondaminI'm probably the only one on a tech forum that thinks kids needs to stay away from computers until they are 15 or something.
So much to learn that doesn't involve computers and it's not that kids who learned with computers are any better at IT than the generation before them.
It's worse.

This is a way of thinking which brings me back to history lessons years ago. You might want to read about Luddites and their views on technology. Some of them argued that any new technology is inherently evil and should be banned. What you're saying is akin to claiming learning with books is wrong because there's "so much to learn that doesn't involve books", for example basket weaving or plowing a field. Those are very forward looking things every child should learn and will ensure a future-proof career path. Methinks it would be healthier for children to grow up treating computers as normal everyday objects and learning how to use them productively, not be conditioned into fearing them as some magical, mysterious thing they're forbidden to use, but what do I know. Looking at current education systems I see a perfect implementation of the prussian system - "teach them to read and write well enough so they know what is expected of them and can leave notes for the next shift". On that note, Chromebooks are just throwaway indoctrination tools so kids learn from an early age to obey and blindly trust their corporate masters. Them being pieces of so called "manufactured e-waste" should be a lesson to those kids about what's important in the world of blind consumerism.

kondaminI'm probably the only one on a tech forum that thinks kids needs to stay away from computers until they are 15 or something.
So much to learn that doesn't involve computers and it's not that kids who learned with computers are any better at IT than the generation before them.
It's worse.

Restricted/monitored internet use until a certain age I might agree with, but abstinence from computers entirely is not something I'd agree with. Being introduced to computers at an early age was really beneficial for my general computer productivity skills (word processing, spreadsheets, graphs, Google-fu), basic troubleshooting skills, and kindled my interest in PC games.

kondaminwho Knows, you might have spent more time on something beneficial to your career.

I really doubt that. At any rate am happy where I ended up without restrictions.

sLowEndRestricted/monitored internet use until a certain age I might agree with, but abstinence from computers entirely is not something I'd agree with. Being introduced to computers at an early age was really beneficial for my general computer productivity skills (word processing, spreadsheets, graphs, Google-fu), basic troubleshooting skills, and kindled my interest in PC games.

Exactly.

There were built to be e-waste. Why is this surprising to anyone?

Google have the worst quality control around. All their hardware is crap. I would never buy a google branded product beyond a Chromecast.

Beyond that Chrome Books just suck ass.

Minus InfinityGoogle have the worst quality control around. All their hardware is crap. I would never buy a google branded product beyond a Chromecast.

Beyond that Chrome Books just suck ass.

In phones their quality is decent. I think the issue here is chromebooks were built to a subpar standard by the simple fact they are cost-cut down to hell. They are modern day netbook etrash and no-one should be expecting more of them.

R-T-BIn phones their quality is decent. I think the issue here is chromebooks were built to a subpar standard by the simple fact they are cost-cut down to hell. They are modern day netbook etrash and no-one should be expecting more of them.

Decent quality isn't great since they've massively increased prices. Back in the day when they were Nexus branded phones and cheap as chips you forgive it, now when a flagship is well over $1K in Australia nope. So many people I talk to have had issues.

ShihabWhich picture?

This one. The black ones are latitude 5400 series, ad that silver one is an E6440.

T0@stpirg.org/edfund/resources/chromebook-churn-report-highlights-problems-of-short-lived-laptops-in-schools/

I sourced the images directly from the PIRC's article and report. The photos were taken by Peter Mui.
I'm not sure if their team members are technically minded when it comes to telling the difference between laptops, or that their campaigner is simply trying to illustrate that schools are having to deal with stacks of ancient hardware in general...

Oh we have SO much. SO many laptops and desktops that we bought for the eventual move to windows 10 that MicroSoft have gloriously decided wont run 11 and now much be replaced. But you know, I heard MS was going green so....its all good, right?

evernessinceA screen with additional impact resistance and a keyboard that's water and crumb / crud proof along with being easy to clean would all go a long way to increasing device longevity.

That said I don't think it's worth arguing over which is more important but rather that all the above be addressed because a product would preferably be easy to repair and have a long lifespan before repairs are required.

No amount of "impact resistance" is going to stop kids with a 40 minute period of boredom. Even screens on actual panasonic toughbooks are easy to crack for a bored 14 year old with no sense of responsibility.

I've yet to see a "crud proof" keyboard. Kids will ALWAYS find a way.

JuventasThis issue applies to all computers in a large organization. Dell, Lenovo, and HP enterprise laptops are "end of support" 5 years after they're discontinued. Firmware updates for security vulnerabilities are nearly a monthly occurrence now and once a model hits that part of their life cycle, they are left vulnerable. For this reason and others, IT departments need to dispose/recycle them at this point even if they're in good condition and meeting recommended system requirements.

Based on the number of not just schools, but government organizations and private entities that still use E6440s and E5400s, I'm going to say most people do not care about such end of support and continue to use hardware until it stops working. The 6440 came out 10 years ago. Especially when 99% of those vulnerabilities require physical access (in which case you already lost) or remote admin rights, which are very hard to get and those are patched even on EOL systems.

JuventasMacBooks seem to get a slightly longer period of support (Apple never publishes this until it happens), but when that support period ends, you also loose OS/app support because Apple is providing that instead of a third-party like Microsoft.

I would like to see governments mandate a minimum of 10 years before end of support on all computers.

Better idea: open source systems so they do not require a multi billion dollar company to support them.

TheinsanegamerNBased on the number of not just schools, but government organizations and private entities that still use E6440s and E5400s, I'm going to say most people do not care about such end of support and continue to use hardware until it stops working. The 6440 came out 10 years ago. Especially when 99% of those vulnerabilities require physical access (in which case you already lost) or remote admin rights, which are very hard to get and those are patched even on EOL systems.

Better idea: open source systems so they do not require a multi billion dollar company to support them.

It depends on their compliance policies. I'm familiar with the public sector, but not in the US, so perhaps they're more relaxed about using unsupported hardware.

I like the idea of an open framework for PC firmware. This reminds me of Android distributions that have security updates for phones that the vendor no longer provides.

Minus InfinityDecent quality isn't great since they've massively increased prices. Back in the day when they were Nexus branded phones and cheap as chips you forgive it, now when a flagship is well over $1K in Australia nope. So many people I talk to have had issues.

That's a fair point, the ballooning costs are pretty bad.

TheinsanegamerNI've yet to see a "crud proof" keyboard. Kids will ALWAYS find a way.

The rubberized unpeelable toughbook keyboards I witnessed once probably come close, but those things are literally designed for scuba, and cost accordingly, lol.

I used to work on toughbooks. If you have the money, they have the answer to just about anything, including insane things like an invincible laptop you can use in a volcano inside the magma core (only slightly exagerating here, they do have laptops that'll work places you'll most likely die without protection though). However, you'd best be made of money.

TahagomizerThis is a way of thinking which brings me back to history lessons years ago. You might want to read about Luddites and their views on technology. Some of them argued that any new technology is inherently evil and should be banned. What you're saying is akin to claiming learning with books is wrong because there's "so much to learn that doesn't involve books", for example basket weaving or plowing a field. Those are very forward looking things every child should learn and will ensure a future-proof career path. Methinks it would be healthier for children to grow up treating computers as normal everyday objects and learning how to use them productively, not be conditioned into fearing them as some magical, mysterious thing they're forbidden to use, but what do I know. Looking at current education systems I see a perfect implementation of the prussian system - "teach them to read and write well enough so they know what is expected of them and can leave notes for the next shift". On that note, Chromebooks are just throwaway indoctrination tools so kids learn from an early age to obey and blindly trust their corporate masters. Them being pieces of so called "manufactured e-waste" should be a lesson to those kids about what's important in the world of blind consumerism.

The Luddites feared mechanization and industrialization.
Looking at what it did to society they weren't wrong.
Living standards sank to historic lows, people started shrinking due to how bad it got for the majority of people.

a change that slowly began getting a bit better after WW1 accelerating after WW2 for most of western europe.
it looks like automation is going to ruin living standards for the huge majority again as white collar jobs are being replaced by software lowering demand for productivity provided by blue collar workers.

That aside, no I'm not a Luddites.
I'm in no way against technology and it's progress.

I do think it's seriously affecting kids how and what they are learning.
And it's not for the better