ATX is painfully obsolete... but it is not possible that MB makers develop new standard.

AMD, Intel, cooling companies (but primary producers, not brand names like TT or Corsair) and power supply producers must sit together and create new standard. Actually, two new standards: one highly integrated, to be used for laptops and small PCs - for that purpose, even ATX derivatives can be used successfully. Other for desktop PCs that will separate CPU and GPU, and enable easier cooling and power supply to both.

However, with desktop PC being dying breed, I do not see that happening any time soon. Also, nVidia, AMD and Intel can't just increase power consumption indefinitely... PCIe 5 and newer drives also increase consumption too much... That is simply not sustainable... Maybe back to basics and actually using engineering prowess, instead of just cramping MOAR of everything into smaller space will be needed... God forbid, what we are gonna to do ???

Aleksandar_038ATX is painfully obsolete... but it is not possible that MB makers develop new standard.

AMD, Intel, cooling companies (but primary producers, not brand names like TT or Corsair) and power supply producers must sit together and create new standard. Actually, two new standards: one highly integrated, to be used for laptops and small PCs - for that purpose, even ATX derivatives can be used successfully. Other for desktop PCs that will separate CPU and GPU, and enable easier cooling and power supply to both.

However, with desktop PC being dying breed, I do not see that happening any time soon. Also, nVidia, AMD and Intel can't just increase power consumption indefinitely... PCIe 5 and newer drives also increase consumption too much... That is simply not sustainable... Maybe back to basics and actually using engineering prowess, instead of just cramping MOAR of everything into smaller space will be needed... God forbid, what we are gonna to do ???

It seems that NVIDIA is currently the only company that cares about building efficient chips, and even they overclock those to the bleeding edge. I blame Intel and AMD for setting that trend by making up for their poor CPU and GPU products respectively by clocking them so high, thus forcing the competition to do the same and creating an arms race of stupidity.

AssimilatorIt seems that NVIDIA is currently the only company that cares about building efficient chips, and even they overclock those to the bleeding edge. I blame Intel and AMD for setting that trend by making up for their poor CPU and GPU products respectively by clocking them so high, thus forcing the competition to do the same and creating an arms race of stupidity.

That's the most ridiculous statement I have heard today, total nonesense, if you're resolving Nvidia of blame and burning all else you need to remove those green tints asap, they're befuddling you and look a mess.

Wtaf am I kidding, I know your style.

Broken ProcessorI like innovation but unless this is a standard agreed by all motherboard and GPU manufacturers and they are all going to be making parts and not charging a huge premium I'd never buy this platform because I'd be afraid of being locked in to a manufacturer.

Also generally means that price hikes will follow it. Especially if no one else adopts it. All there needs to be is a company that pulls an AMD Freesync to open it up and Asus will later be forced to adopt whatever standard the industry goes through.

May be a good idea for low power consuming GPUs but not best for example for high end Nvidia and AMD cards where you can push nowadays up to 700-800W over even higher. :p
The motherboard need to deliver that amount of power over it which will increase the motherboard cost as they need to design thicker copper power plane inside the PCB to deliver that high power.

When I am Ocing my 7900XTX, I have seen power up to 850W being pulled at the PCIe connector using the WireView from Thermal Grizzly. :roll:
Like we have nowadays sometimes melting GPU power cables and connectors, maybe we will have burning mainboards. :eek:

As an overlocker I will not buy such motherboard.
Just for reference, I need to real push the 7900XTX and let it consume power like hell to get this top 2nd place in Time Spy. :D
www.3dmark.com/search#advanced?test=spy%20P&cpuId=&gpuId=1526&gpuCount=0&gpuType=ALL&deviceType=ALL&storageModel=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=graphicsScore&hofMode=true&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

turbogearMay be a good idea for low power consuming GPUs but not best for example for high end Nvidia and AMD cards where you can push nowadays up to 700-800W over even higher. :p
The motherboard need to deliver that amount of power over it which will increase the motherboard cost as they need to design thicker copper power plane inside the PCB to deliver that high power.

When I am Ocing my 7900XTX, I have seen power up to 850W being pulled at the PCIe connector using the WireView from Thermal Grizzly. :roll:
Like we have nowadays sometimes melting GPU power cables and connectors, maybe we will have burning mainboards. :eek:

As an overlocker I will not buy such motherboard.
Just for reference, I need to real push the 7900XTX and let it consume power like hell to get this top 2nd place in Time Spy. :D
www.3dmark.com/search#advanced?test=spy%20P&cpuId=&gpuId=1526&gpuCount=0&gpuType=ALL&deviceType=ALL&storageModel=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=graphicsScore&hofMode=true&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

Yes, further integration with such high-powered components is no go. I think that we need to go another route - separation of components in separate chambers, modular build that allows to add separate chamber for gpu - if you use high powered gpu, separate set for expansion slots, separate area for cpu... Integration for thin and light, modular approach for desktops and workstations...

TheDeeGeeBest of luck to those wanting to sell their card on the second hand market.

This is why 12VHPWR was introduced, to slim down on cables.

this can be a minor problem if they would just release a compatible riser cable with its own power connectors.

PC GAMING/Editing... here's the future IMO->
We're going to see a separate "box" that comprises basically all the hardware except storage as an ADDON, main processing device. Think of an XBox Series S but without the SSD. SO:
1) You buy a really BASIC computer that serves you for web browsing, office tasks etc.
2) You setup all the SOFTWARE. You don't want to build a new PC from scratch.
3) You buy a new "box" that comprises a SoC/APU and shared memory (just like a game console)
4) Plug it in. It just works.
NOTE: this would work with basically ANY existing computer, and ignoring SSD asset streaming even a USB2 connection would be sufficient as the game content for most games just gets moved over to the shared memory. You attach the MONITOR to the new box... for NEWER computers that act as the core PC you can make this work even better. Have an 80Gbps USB4 connection for fast SSD asset streaming, and for laptops have the video going back through to the laptop screen.

Want to upgrade? Sell the box which would be easy to test since it's self-contained and ideally just runs it's own standalone diagnostic. Buy a new one. Plug it in.

Many PROS and CONS but it would work well for many people. I know people who just want to game and do video editing and would like to just spend $500 and plug in the thing (whatever, they don't know) and have it just work. The SIZE would be far smaller than a normal PC as there's no wasted space. Basically similar to a graphics card in a box shape. The COST if this caught on would be cheaper. Less shipping costs. Less wasted material. Less cooling.

Microsoft could actually just release the next XBOX as a device like this if they wanted to. Same exact hardware just a different box and connectivity, although they have obligations in the hardware space that make this complicated. VALVE would be someone I'd actually love to see do this but using Linux. I even have a name. We could call it the "Steam Machine!"

I'm all in for the VGAs with extra power slot pinout - its nothing especially new to do. Servers have custom risers with that kind of design for decades - you supply power to the board/riser not the card itself and it works splendidly. No need to entangle the GPU with web of power cables.

I don't like all connectors at the back. It has to be ironclad standardized thing or its DOA. Furthermore its less costly to manufacture with everything on one side (like right now) than complicate the design even further with power connectors on the other side of PCB. You'll need excellent cable management so plugs won't cook/unplug themselves. Usually at the back of the case there is no airflow, which in age of 700W Intel CPUs, and 600W GPUs... in one word: hot.

AssimilatorOn top of those we'd want a cooler manufacturer that actually designs coolers, not just rebadges them

I'm thinking about Synergy Cooling. :)
Synergy Cooling

claesI said it already in this thread, but there actually is an attempt at standardization. Don’t know why TPU editors keep ignoring this.

www.tomshardware.com/news/diy-ape-motherboards-break-cover

videocardz.com/newz/msi-preparing-amd-b650-diy-ape-motherboards-with-connectors-on-the-back

videocardz.com/newz/asus-diy-ape-revolution-project-is-an-attempt-to-improve-pc-cable-management

If you look deep into CES coverage, including some of the coverage here, you could find close to a dozen cases supporting this diy-ape/ytx standard. TPU editors ought to know this and refer to their own coverage. I get that you guys don’t seem to have board meetings but come on…

This is not an endorsement of whatever this is, ATX needs a complete overhaul and board partners should lead the way, but not just so they can hide cables.

Why does it need a overhaul and why is it better to not have cables?

Looking at those articles they about putting connectors on the back not adding GPU power fully via PCIe.

ypsylonI'm all in for the VGAs with extra power slot pinout - its nothing especially new to do. Servers have custom risers with that kind of design for decades - you supply power to the board/riser not the card itself and it works splendidly. No need to entangle the GPU with web of power cables.

I don't like all connectors at the back. It has to be ironclad standardized thing or its DOA. Furthermore its less costly to manufacture with everything on one side (like right now) than complicate the design even further with power connectors on the other side of PCB. You'll need excellent cable management so plugs won't cook/unplug themselves. Usually at the back of the case there is no airflow, which in age of 700W Intel CPUs, and 600W GPUs... in one word: hot.

I have 2 cables going into my GPU, hardly a web. ;)

For all those saying ATX is dead/obsolete etc. please state why. Change shouldnt be done because we got bored. I will always see the problem as the devices are being released as a too high power device, the future is less energy usage not energy sucking machines.

Do people really hate cables that much?

chrcolukWhy does it need a overhaul

Because it is dated and inefficient for not only cooling but pci expansion. You can fancy lower power usage but that’s not the reality for high-end components and, if you do want low power, there’s plenty of standard components and even smaller pre-builts available for that.

chrcolukand why is it better to not have cables?

I explicitly said I do not endorse whatever this is, you even quoted that part? It was a don’t at me for being the messenger disclaimer

Can you please explain how it is inefficient compared to going internally via the board.

There is already a system available for high power guzzling components, it has recently been delivered via a new standard. Also I think this will be a temporary fad like we seen in the past where occasionally the manufacturers get stuck and resort to crazy power consumption, then they will figure something out and it will drop again.

This time there is risk of intervention from regulators though e.g. hoover's got regulated in the UK to lower power consumption as their peak power got too high.

chrcolukCan you please explain how it is inefficient compared to going internally via the board.

I don’t know what you mean by “going internally via the board,” but I outlined my thoughts in the last post. I don’t think it makes sense for GPU cooling and don’t think it makes sense that so many pci slots are inaccessible. I also don’t think the vast majority of users need more than one slot though, so who I am to judge. ITX makes sense for most people, and sandwich cases are basically what I incision as the best alternative, only with pci slots on the back rather than using ribbon cables.

chrcolukThere is already a system available for high power guzzling components, it has recently been delivered via a new standard.

What’s all this, don’t think I know what you’re referring to, sounds interesting

chrcolukAlso I think this will be a temporary fad like we seen in the past where occasionally the manufacturers get stuck and resort to crazy power consumption, then they will figure something out and it will drop again.

Maybe, but I don’t think giant GPU coolers are going anywhere, and kind of hope they don’t (they’re so quiet!).

chrcolukThis time there is risk of intervention from regulators though e.g. hoover's got regulated in the UK to lower power consumption as their peak power got too high.

I cannot imagine this being the case as long as everyone is so dependent on giant data centers.