nguyenNo one buy an overpriced slow GPU

I would buy an AMD Kingpin gpu if it dunks on a 5090.

Easy Rhinopeople are still into overclocking? i want massive efficiency, not a bloated electric bill.

True but Asus is literally eating Kingpin's lunch $3200 for a 4090 for potential 3.2 ghz oc.
Meanwhile I have my 4090 hybrid liquid auto oc to 3ghz/ 450 watts of power but only use it in rt titles with significant 10% performance delta gains. Although I agree about the efficiency part. The 4090 scales to maximum efficiency paired with 7800X3D. For example my go to daily game is still Vermintide 2 at 4k 120 hz maximum settings with dlaa I use about 300 to 350 watts of total system power. I love the ability to choose to play at maximum efficiency x 1000 hours of gameplay vs maximum performance with reasonable power use for dozens of hours of gameplay in rt titles. Maybe manual oc is dead but auto oc in my experience gives you with little effort the best performance at the lowest power.

DemonicRyzen666More like the enthusiast market is dead.

Yeah that's why the 4090s sold so bad on the Steam survey.

GodrillaI would buy an AMD Kingpin gpu if it dunks on a 5090.

Well probably RDNA6 can dunk on 5090, but you won't find a Kingpin version of that :cool:

Easy Rhinopeople are still into overclocking? i want massive efficiency, not a bloated electric bill.

That's only a worry if you're trying to OC all the time with your daily.
For those that try it that way well.... That's their problem and consequense to deal with but, most OC'ers know to never OC your daily anyway.
Some will OC it mildly for gaming purposes and that isn't a problem in itself - I'm talking about going nuts with it related to OC'ing like Vince (Kingpin) and I do when we go for it.

You do that with a dedicated setup to that end if you're competing against others at the bot for WR's.

GodrillaI would buy an AMD Kingpin gpu if it dunks on a 5090.

AMD isn't going to try to compete with the 5090 any more than they tried to compete with 1080 Ti, 2080 Ti, 3090, 3090 Ti, 4090. It makes AMD fans uncomfortable when I say the following but financially it's the truth. The smartest thing AMD has done in the past 20 years is to cease trying to compete with Nvidia's flagships and concentrate the bulk of their their R&D money on the CPU division. The results are self-evident. They went from damn near bankrupt to very successful after that. They would be foolish to go back to trying to compete fully with Nvidia and Intel at the same time. Anyway, very, very, very few gamers buy a flagship Nvidia GPU. It's irrelevant financially to AMD.

64KAMD isn't going to try to compete with the 5090 any more than they tried to compete with 1080 Ti, 2080 Ti, 3090, 3090 Ti, 4090. It makes AMD fans uncomfortable when I say the following but financially it's the truth. The smartest thing AMD has done in the past 20 years is to cease trying to compete with Nvidia's flagships and concentrate the bulk of their their R&D money on the CPU division. The results are self-evident. They went from damn near bankrupt to very successful after that. They would be foolish to go back to trying to compete fully with Nvidia and Intel at the same time. Anyway, very, very, very few gamers buy a flagship Nvidia GPU. It's irrelevant financially to AMD.

I think them competing ok against the 3090/3090ti with the 6900XT/6950XT gave AMD faithful hope that they'd continue that momentum when in reality that is an outlier generation over the last decade.

Steam isn't a perfect platform to get numbers from but there are still more people registered on it with 4090s than high end RDNA3 combined. It's also the only nvidia card to consistently be sold out or near sold out during it's first 6-8 months on shelves so there is a demand for high end Nvidia cards at least.

Although part of that probably had to do with how terrible the 1200 usd 4080 was at least from a PP standpoint.

GodrillaI would buy an AMD Kingpin gpu if it dunks on a 5090.

IF

evernessinceIt's easy to point fingers at Nvidia because they have engaged in and continue to engage in anti-consumer practices. We know this for a fact because multiple times now it has bubbled to the surface publicly. They are currently under investigation for anti-trust but they've gotten in trouble for lying about card specs, lying to their investors, strong arming AIBs (whether that be the GPP or the current situation where only Nvidia is allowed ASUS, Gigabyte, and MSI's premium SKUs), cheating on benchmarks, implementing malicious game tech (tessellation far beyond what was visible in Crysis 2 merely to nuke AMD performance), ect. The list goes on. Heck they never did own up to the fact that the 3000 series cards, in particular the 3090, was feeding back noise into the 12v sense pin which caused some PSUs like the Seasonic prime to trip OCD. That was an Nvidia design fault, not Seasonic. Nvidia can do no wrong.

Really? REALLY? That garbage about Crysis 2 AGAIN? It's been THIRTEEN YEARS since that game came out and you're still holding that grudge? A grudge that isn't even NVIDIA's fault, but rather Crytek's for incompetently porting a DX9 game into DX11 and tacking features on? RTX 3090 feeding power back to the power supply? What? If Seasonic released a batch of bad PSUs that's on them! It has nothing to do with NVIDIA, nor does that imply that the RTX 3090 has a design fault.

Come ONNNN, this is so utterly frustrating that it borders on the malicious, I don't know what kind of substance is involved in this mindset but I want some of it!

evernessinceA majority of EVGA's revenue was graphics cards They were the largest AIB for Nvidia after all. It's different for ASUS, MSI, and Gigabyte who were diversified.

EVGA was Nvidia's most ardent partner and Nvidia tossed them aside like trash just like they did BFG and XFX. Like Linus Torvalds said:

A company so terrible to work with that even your partners who signed on to exclusively make products for you decide it isn't worth it anymore.

But sure, despite all the evidence let's just pretend it's everyone else's fault. /s

What were they expecting, special treatment? Discounts because nice little EVGA needs larger margins to stabilize its own shortcomings? It's no wonder this trainwreck of a company crashed and burned. Other companies stepped up to the vacuum EVGA left on the market with the slickest designs to date. Turns out that they aren't special nor essential for any of the parts involved, consumers included.

Linus Torvalds' issue with Nvidia is simply an ideological one. Nvidia is not a big believer in free and open source software, and that is a valid stance. This would generate an entire argument on its own, FOSS x proprietary, but the fact remains that proprietary software is morally valid, otherwise Microsoft would never have gotten away with Windows and Apple would have long since crashed and burned

evernessinceTypically AMD has lower prices and more VRAM, two very important things for most folks. They do have a good driver interface and a few features Nvidia doesn't have like built in OC and better power management options. Obviously Nvidia has more exclusive features of course but AMD's 10% marketshare isn't proportionate to how competitive their products are. AMD had 19.4% marketshare with Bulldozer CPUs so why is a vastly more competitive RDNA architecture only netting a mere 10% after 3 generations? Software lock-in and mindshare.

Unfortunately for AMD, the market can see through the fact that a pretty control panel doesn't distract from the fact that the underlying driver has an untold amount of issues that vary from tolerable to severe. Turns out people aren't interested in giving up a great experience to go play troubleshooter every time you start playing a new game, turns out that they aren't interested in hunting Windows updates that may conflict with the driver or installing a different version for each game they play, turns out people do place value in an ecosystem, turns out gamers don't actually give one fig about open source, they may even claim that they do but when push comes to shove, they will support proprietary software... which brings the conversation full circle:

Radeons don't offer the top tier performance nor a consistent experience, and thus are unworthy of being positioned as premium segment products.

I won't even continue addressing the rest, if you genuinely believe things like the Crysis 2 hoax or the "GameWorks" thing almost 15 years on, you're hopeless and those aren't even the most recent grudges you're going to be holding. Literally the frustrated ATI boomer thing I routinely bring up.

I'm just surprised it took this long for another GPU brand to snap him up.

In other news, EVGA is dead or dying, right? Precious few motherboard or power supply reviews since they left the GPU industry.

Limited availability in a select few regions and falling behind in product releases is a sure way to go out of business.

Couldn't have a chosen a more dubious brand honestly.

Dr. DroIF



Really? REALLY? That garbage about Crysis 2 AGAIN? It's been THIRTEEN YEARS since that game came out and you're still holding that grudge? A grudge that isn't even NVIDIA's fault, but rather Crytek's for incompetently porting a DX9 game into DX11 and tacking features on? RTX 3090 feeding power back to the power supply? What? If Seasonic released a batch of bad PSUs that's on them! It has nothing to do with NVIDIA, nor does that imply that the RTX 3090 has a design fault.

Come ONNNN, this is so utterly frustrating that it borders on the malicious, I don't know what kind of substance is involved in this mindset but I want some of it!



What were they expecting, special treatment? Discounts because nice little EVGA needs larger margins to stabilize its own shortcomings? It's no wonder this trainwreck of a company crashed and burned. Other companies stepped up to the vacuum EVGA left on the market with the slickest designs to date. Turns out that they aren't special nor essential for any of the parts involved, consumers included.

Linus Torvalds' issue with Nvidia is simply an ideological one. Nvidia is not a big believer in free and open source software, and that is a valid stance. This would generate an entire argument on its own, FOSS x proprietary, but the fact remains that proprietary software is morally valid, otherwise Microsoft would never have gotten away with Windows and Apple would have long since crashed and burned



Unfortunately for AMD, the market can see through the fact that a pretty control panel doesn't distract from the fact that the underlying driver has an untold amount of issues that vary from tolerable to severe. Turns out people aren't interested in giving up a great experience to go play troubleshooter every time you start playing a new game, turns out that they aren't interested in hunting Windows updates that may conflict with the driver or installing a different version for each game they play, turns out people do place value in an ecosystem, turns out gamers don't actually give one fig about open source, they may even claim that they do but when push comes to shove, they will support proprietary software... which brings the conversation full circle:

Radeons don't offer the top tier performance nor a consistent experience, and thus are unworthy of being positioned as premium segment products.

I won't even continue addressing the rest, if you genuinely believe things like the Crysis 2 hoax or the "GameWorks" thing almost 15 years on, you're hopeless and those aren't even the most recent grudges you're going to be holding. Literally the frustrated ATI boomer thing I routinely bring up.

I get the frustration with Nvidia though, they frustrate me plenty with how they've stagnated at the midrange and low end and with how stingy they tend to be with the cost vs vram capacity at the 4-600 range.

That being said anyone who thinks AMD or even intel wouldn't behave the same way is delusional if their places were swapped one only need to look at Ryzen 5000 when for the first time they had a better cpu than intel they priced the 5600X at $300 and the 5800X at $450 smh. All these companies just want our money for the minimal effort possible on their part defending any of them makes 0 sense.

I don't really care if the box says intel/amd/Nvidia what I care about is it performs like a 4090 and only one company offers that currently.

InVasManiCouldn't have a chosen a more dubious brand honestly.

Honestly to me it makes the most sense he obviously wants to focus on Nvidia and currently PNY is the only option. Also they don't really have anything above the XLR8 which honestly is just a base model card with RGB. They likely benefit more than any other AIB from having him involved so when I heard the news it made sense.

The other brands already have XOC style cards or premium varients.


.

oxrufiioxoI get the frustration with Nvidia though, they frustrate me plenty with how they've stagnated at the midrange and low end and with how stingy they tend to be with the cost vs vram capacity at the 4-600 range.

That being said anyone who thinks AMD or even intel wouldn't behave the same way is delusional if their places were swapped one only need to look at Ryzen 5000 when for the first time they had a better cpu than intel they priced the 5600X at $300 and the 5800X at $450 smh. All these companies just want our money for the minimal effort possible on their part defending any of them makes 0 sense.

Unfortunate yet direct consequences of having a near-hegemony here. In my view, we should be supportive of ARC Battlemage. That will drive both AMD and NV to be more competitive in the segment that is arguably the most important.

Dr. DroUnfortunate yet direct consequences of having a near-hegemony here. In my view, we should be supportive of ARC Battlemage. That will drive both AMD and NV to be more competitive in the segment that is arguably the most important.

I'll support good P/P products I liked the 6700XT at $289 to test fsr on a non nvidia gpu and the 5700XT at $380 although I grabbed one to try and replicate all the driver issues and couldn't lol.

If battlemage isn't trash I'll have no issues doing a entry level system with one at some point.

AleksandarKThis time, the company of choice for KINGPIN is now PNY.

This was not unexpected. PNY seems the natural selection. This will likely be a very good partnership! I say bravo!

Shou MikoNvGreedia

Can we stop with this childish crap?

Anybody with actual industry experience is going to find Dr. Dro's posts here absolutely hilarious.

It's entirely possible for AMD's high-end cards to offer an inferior value prop (DLSS is objectively better than FSR2, AMD's RDNA2/RDNA3 RT performance is sorely lacking compared to NVIDIA/Intel) outside of rasterized tasks and NVIDIA to be incredibly anti-competitive.

DTheSleeplessAnybody with actual industry experience is going to find Dr. Dro's posts here absolutely hilarious. It's entirely possible for AMD's high-end cards to offer an inferior value prop (DLSS is objectively better than FSR2, AMD's RDNA2/RDNA3 RT performance is sorely lacking compared to NVIDIA/Intel) outside of rasterized tasks and NVIDIA to be incredibly anti-competitive.

Enlighten me, please. I'm humble enough to admit when I'm wrong. Where's the bespoke industry experience you seem to possess that I do not?

What would be funny, if it wasn't so sad, is people holding grudges for over a decade over things as inconsequential as a new game running poorly on your favorite hardware brand.

Saw your edit: AMD's performance is competitive only on certain segments, but the highest segment is not one of them. The 7900 XTX missed its mark, it clearly is a much more advanced processor than the RTX 4080's AD103. Yet it barely outpaces it by a thread. At original MSRP, cards like the RX 7900 XT were abhorrent value propositions. At current market prices, not so bad. But you still give up on the things that make a GeForce what it is, and to some, that is a dealbreaker. Wouldn't even include myself in that.

oxrufiioxoI'll support good P/P products I liked the 6700XT at $289 to test fsr on a non nvidia gpu and the 5700XT at $380 although I grabbed one to try and replicate all the driver issues and couldn't lol.

If battlemage isn't trash I'll have no issues doing a entry level system with one at some point.

Absolutely.

DTheSleeplessAnybody with actual industry experience is going to find Dr. Dro's posts here absolutely hilarious.

It's entirely possible for AMD's high-end cards to offer an inferior value prop (DLSS is objectively better than FSR2, AMD's RDNA2/RDNA3 RT performance is sorely lacking compared to NVIDIA/Intel) outside of rasterized tasks and NVIDIA to be incredibly anti-competitive.

Except that Radeons offer VERY competitive performance/price value. Even the Raytracing is solid now.

Dr. DroIn my view, we should be supportive of ARC Battlemage.

I'm very much looking forward to the next gen of Intel's ARC lineup. This first gen had a rough start but has really taken it's stride and proven to be worthy competition. Battlemage should be excellent from the get-go.

Dr. DroUnfortunate yet direct consequences of having a near-hegemony here. In my view, we should be supportive of ARC Battlemage. That will drive both AMD and NV to be more competitive in the segment that is arguably the most important.

If not for the obvious advantages of having a new challenger in general, atleast do it for those sexy FE cards sheeeesh.

Solaris17If not for the obvious advantages of having a new challenger in general, atleast do it for those sexy FE cards sheeeesh.

Yeah, I do really dig the reference intel aesthetic as well they hit that out of the park in my book.

Apart from standing up in a product development meeting once in a while every couple of years, and shouting "put a bigger cooler on it", what does he ACTUALLY do, day to day?

stimpy88Apart from standing up in a product development meeting once in a while every couple of years, and shouting "put a bigger cooler on it", what does he ACTUALLY do, day to day?

He's no fraud, I can tell you as much

Dr. Dro

He's no fraud, I can tell you as much

EVGA made a lot of mistakes on video cards, like the missing thermal pads on Pascal VRM leading to burning and dead Ampere due to poor VRM controller (Amazon's New World fiasco). These mistakes reflected badly on Nvidia, no wonder Nvidia treated EVGA harshly.

Dr. Dro

He's no fraud, I can tell you as much

Honestly the videos with Him and Tin were probably my favorite of any of the GN stuff.

I like the dude the Beardedhardware dude also.

nguyenEVGA made a lot of mistakes on video cards, like the missing thermal pads on Pascal VRM leading to burning and dead Ampere due to poor VRM controller (Amazon's New World fiasco). These mistakes reflected badly on Nvidia, no wonder Nvidia treated EVGA harshly.

I honestly think it had more to do with Nvdia forcing them to sell near msrp unlike all the other partners making gangbusters I think that led to a lot of animosity/resentment during ampere. Nvidia also diverted a ton of stock to miners which likely also didn't sit well.

That being said that's the downfall of basically betting your whole business on one gpu maker especially Nvidia who likely thinks they don't really need AIB partners.

Their support always took care of me so even when they made mistakes they always fixed the issue at least here in the states. They never once made me feel like I damaged the product unlike every other company does.

I feel like other companies like to pass the blame... Asus did it with their poor 5000 series amd coolers, Intel with their whole your 13900k/14900k may or may not work at these settings but it's the board partners fualt, Gigabyte with their exploding PSU debacle, NZXT with their fire hazard case, and many many more.

nguyenEVGA made a lot of mistakes on video cards

There's an unfair over-statement. NO ONE is perfect, ever. End of discussion.

nguyenno wonder Nvidia treated EVGA harshly.

No, Nvidia treated EVGA harshly because EVGA wanted to do right by the customer and be honest.

EDIT: Laugh all you want, you ARE wrong.

I personally don't think EVGA was entitled to handouts or discounts to fatten their margins, they were great beyond reproach as a brand and as a hardware manufacturer, but internally things were not that rosy. It`s easy to be swayed when seeing such majestic engineering teams and the dedication that people who are involved with the R&D have, but that's also where the differences between these wonderful folks and the "suits" arise. Something similar happens within AMD, the people that work on Radeon are very passionate, but their hands are bound most of the time by executive decisions.

@Dr. Dro also trying to be a manufacture for Nvidia first you get told like the RT X090 card should be like 2000, then 2 weeks before release you get told price is gonna be 1799, and than on stage Jenson says and it will be available for 1599 or 1499 this can piss anyone off because than you also know where your margins go.

I doubt AMD is any better but still it can piss off anyone pulling this "stunt" on stage because if NvGreedia and Jenson wanted he could sell the RTX 4090 for 999USD but with the 1000% profit they have on AI why sell something for the consumer that companies can also buy to use for the same thing?

Shou Miko@Dr. Dro also trying to be a manufacture for Nvidia first you get told like the RT X090 card should be like 2000, then 2 weeks before release you get told price is gonna be 1799, and than on stage Jenson says and it will be available for 1599 or 1499 this can piss anyone off because than you also know where your margins go.

I doubt AMD is any better but still it can piss off anyone pulling this "stunt" on stage because if NvGreedia and Jenson wanted he could sell the RTX 4090 for 999USD but with the 1000% profit they have on AI why sell something for the consumer that companies can also buy to use for the same thing?

AMD also revised product prices at the last minute on occasion. It is common to do this, and whenever such last-minute adjustments come up, the AIBs are clearly not left slighted (as in, being charged the original price for pre-launch inventory) and to their own devices. That would be completely unacceptable and would generate very large legal disputes.

Ironically, if sold at 999, the RTX 4090 would still have excellent margins. Just like the 7900 XTX has, and AMD is still making a profit selling them for 700.