Vayra86Yeah the 'off the grid' guys eh. Gotcha

Yeah... oy. It's almost enough to make your brain rot when you read about the lengths that those people will go to retain what they claim is "True Privacy".

trparkyYeah... oy. It's almost enough to make your brain rot when you read about the lengths that those people will go to retain what they claim is "True Privacy".

Hehe as if they've never watched a single James Bond in their lives. True Privacy was always an illusion. Who knows what the gov agencies are up to. I'm not a tin foil person on that though don't get me wrong, but true privacy comes very close to ignorance is bliss :D

Similar things occur with security when people start placing video doorbells at their front door 'to feel safer'. And then they're checking their phone all day to see if someone's not at the door by chance. So safe, so comfy... so close to symptoms of mental illness... :P

trparkyWithout support for commercial software, it's a bit of a challenge to go to Linux. I have an iPhone and keep things in my iCloud Photo Library. Then there's how I keep important data in OneDrive so I'd have to have support for that. The Mac at least presents a solution where I'd have the best of both worlds; UNIX under the hood with the support for commercial software.

stimpy88The short-term dystopian future will be hacking the OS to give you a local account (we are here). The long-term dystopian future, which is not that far away, will be using old versions of Windows or alternative OS's so if your Internet is slow or goes down, or you care about privacy, you can still work and game.


Linux is awful for home use. You need a PHD in computer science to fix it or make it do pretty much anything, let alone there being no good software for it. You can't beat Office, Photoshop, Premier the list goes on and on. And we won't mention the terrible drivers etc...

Umm you don't need a CS degree to use Linux... I have been full time Linux since 2018 and I don't have a CS degree! And I've been on n off Linux user since 2003!


I also use it now to make my music in bitwig studio and it works great!!

Bitwig was made by ex ableton devs

Link in sig to the complex music I make in Linux alone!

Vayra8690 day evaluation and then you need an activation. Are those easy to come by, then? Can we get a topic going on this perhaps?

26100 is RTM, the rest of the tricks of the book work on it, and that's all the rules let me say.

GoldenX26100 is RTM, the rest of the tricks of the book work on it, and that's all the rules let me say.

Yeah some five minutes of search already led me to the jackpot. I'm gonna be sidegrading soon lol

kondaminIf they want to keep government/corporate users that’s not going to happen.

Now that I’m thinking about it I should make a series of complaints against the practice to my representatives and consumer protection agencies as it’s basically locking me in to Microsoft cloud services

This is right attitude. If everyone would maintain it, there would be no situation, where all software users have taken hostages, for absurd cloud service dominance.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. This is not my goal. However, the reason, why the things have came that far, where it is all now, is because the main and primary target audience for MS Windows, is the domestic US citizen. The primary guinea pigs. And the vast majority US people do not give a sh*t about their security, nor rights, and do not even have a basic power user knowledge. Heck, most won't be able to install the apps themselves, or open them (W10/11 did make it even harder). Hence this is the source of all EULA BS, that MS pulls everywhere all over the world, except EU, because every governement and user on this planet is US/MS compliant by default.
So the ignorance and negligence of user base make the disservice to these very users. People feel comfortable, if the spyware is domestic, or for "safety reasons".

Vayra86Online and XP/7 feels similarly nuts, perhaps you should read up on security a little bit. I'll take MS's keylogger over the one from a random nobody somewhere in Timbuktu, to be honest. I think you're just making your own life complicated that way for a false sense of security. Its totally counterproductive to be on ANY OS that is no longer kept up to date unless you keep it disconnected. You're basically advocating users trade in known security issues for unknown security issues. In what world is it better to not know attack vectors?

Man. You're an adult person. If you still is convinced that MS's keyloggers are that 'safer'.... MS Windows Defender and Firewall is a broken colander. It's as dangerous, as third party bottom line AV software. The worst part is Defender is perfectly fine with passing the dangerous and broken MS updates, and potentially hazardous UWS apps from Store, as much as other MS in-house ad and spyware.
Nothing personal, but MS and their services, Defender included, are even more intrusive and dangerous than third party antivirus software, like e.g. Kaspersky. Which I had absolutely no issues with. Very lightweight, strong firewall, easy to turn off if needed, the enormous proven/tested program/app database, to exclude the false positives, the open reports, and known virus database.
Defender on the other hand is a can of worms... literally. It's completely hampers and stops the execution of of any software, while it scans or updates. When it does which is unknown, because it lives it's own life, ignoring any rules and settings. The amount of false positives is staggering. It bans basically everything, and especially the software MS is not keen on. While the danger of Defender to "let in" is yeat very high, but no one would know, untill it's too late.

BSim500There's a lot of FUD with "OMG you'll get hacked in seconds for running a 1-day out of date OS, but my updated W11 is immune to everything!". If you run W11 like that recent Youtube XP demonstration, ie, Windows Firewall intentionally disabled, all ports open, connected to the Internet "raw" like an old 56k analogue modem (not sitting behind a Router NAT & no router firewall), then that will be hacked in a day too. So too will half the worlds modern up to date IoT appliances connected to the Internet "raw". Likewise, "I run W11" doesn't automatically mean "up to date and secure" either, as almost half the people I know running it have disabled Windows updates at some point due to the Bullsh*t factor of Microsoft constantly shovelling more and more advertising / spyware or breaking something / locking down something else in each new build, as well as disabled Windows Defender due to the wall of false positives and exceptionally dishonest practise of falsely flagging non-hostile software as "viruses" simply because Microsoft doesn't "like" them (eg, Cheat Engine, ExplorerPatcher, StartAllBack and open-source KMS Windows / Office activators that even Microsoft themselves have been caught telling customers to use). "They're 'virus-less viruses' - mainly because we don't want you configuring your own PC anymore..."

There's also the psychological factor - someone still running an older 'insecure' OS is often likely to be more vigilant and disable Server service / SMB, switch Windows Firewall to a whitelist, etc. It's the casual W11 users who often get sucked into a complacent "I'm running W11 and just updated so I have perfect security" whilst continuing to run Windows Firewall in default blacklist-only mode that happily lets anything and everything make outgoing connections, sit there with Remote Desktop Configuration, Remote Desktop Services, Remote Desktop Services UserMode Port Redirector, Remote Registry, Secondary Login, etc, services all still enabled by default on their 'secure' OS... ;)

Windows is "fast food" of OS. The most users are lazy, ignorant and egoistic. AI and MS politics fit this pattern very well. People do not want to do many things for themselves, and rely on various services and devices. Thinking for themselves included. So they better rely on the "professionals" to do something for them.

lexluthermiesterVery fair point. To counter, one might argue, with a reasonable level of merit, that one of the reasons people have switched is due to the unreasonable hoops and nonsense imposed on PC's by microsoft's moronic requirements. It's almost as if microsoft has been taken over by a bunch of visionless tree-swinging poo-flingers who themselves can't see the forest for the trees.


Again, fair point.

The MS and other companies, were taken over by selfish, sociopathic morons decades ago. This is just the back end of the wave, that is just only now reaching the shore.

Raiden85I've been using a MS account on 11 for a long time but it nearly screwed me over last month when I upgraded my desktop from X570 to X670E. Upgrade went fine and Windows booted to the password screen but here is where it almost screwed me over.

Because this was a large change I couldn't sign in with a pin or fingerprint which is understandable but here is the really stupid part, I couldn't even sign in using my password as there was no option to!. Windows wanted to verify my account online only, normally this wouldn't be a problem but being all new hardware it didnt have the driver for the ethernet and of course I can't login to fix that.

Just glad Windows had a driver for the WiFi because if it didn't I would have been locked out until I found a way to get the internet working. What stupid decision was this at MS that I need to verify my account online. I had a proper password to login so this ridiculous issue should never have occurred.

Great, that you've got things sorted out. And this is considering the HW manufacturers advertising their HW W11 'certified'. This is 'fools" tick box.
The other side of such described issue, is that it may be a case of BitLocker to lock all the user data completely, due to login error. And not only that. I've been transfering all my data from two drives to another, and the windows has locked all my data from one drive by previliges, while completely wiping the other, entire logical partition worth of data, after copying being 'successfuly complete'.

stimpy88Calm down. It's an awful OS for anyone who does not have a PHD in computer science. That's basically it. End of.

I think it's great it exists, but it's not for me, and it's not for 95% of home computer users either. Its market share proves me right.

To be honest, people always complained about linux is too complicated, and needs to do everything manually. But it's hard to believe, how the tables have turned. After "experiencing" W10, it's hard to imagine the amount of labour, pain and extremely overcomplicated stuff, just in order to make the Windows ready for work. I do not know, what kool aid people drink while praising W10/11 over W7. But when W7 was installed, it was ready to go out of the box, with exception of some drivers required to be manually installed, and it was so snappy and fast. Now, it's ungodly amount of efforts, just to make the OS being "clean" fresh install, not the advertising/spyware utility.

On the other hand, I had to use the GParted, and Linux Mint. And what a surprise, it works flawlessly, even as a live USB from a micro-SD flash drive. Though, I didn't go that far as installing the games, but everything else was blistering fast.

Also, people put linux into culprit role, but this is the software corporations like Adobe, Autodesk, etc, including the "anti-piracy/anticheat" software, that are both lazy to work their path towards the linux community, and also, most likely take the bags of "incentives' from MS in order to stay within the "established" userbase and ecosystem. These are real culprit and villain here, because:

1 linux community is free, and open source oriented, and they won't pay bribes, in order to pursuade the companies publish their software for linux, let alone, give the code into wide open repositories.
2 Companies are not going to distribute their products for free. This is perhaps the most significant point, that prevents the Linux adoption for professional use. Unless it's RHL, but even then, there's no real intentions to fill that gap even among the paid corporate linux environment.

So untill those giants would show their will to spread their products to OSes other than Windows, there's no way to improve Linux adoption. And this is beyond the power, or sheer will of users, and thus is not their guilt, nor the guilt of Linux community. The companies should make the first move.

Random_UserSo untill those giants would show their will to spread their products to OSes other than Windows, there's no way to improve Linux adoption.

That's basically what MacOS is. MacOS is UNIX under the hood while being completely easy to use even for the average know-nothing computer user.

trparkyThat's basically what MacOS is. MacOS is UNIX under the hood while being completely easy to use even for the average know-nothing computer user.

This is still a walled garden. There's no freedom of choice, even from the software standpoint. So this is not the absolutely same. Not to mention that people are stuck with the proprietary HW, with all the sour consequences of poor repairability, and artificial HW limits. This is the same as MS locking users behind TPM wall, limiting the users with the nl option to buy newer more expencive hardware.
And considering the deal between OpenAI and Apple, this is going to be the same garbage as Copilot and Recall.

Now take most linux distros, which can be installed on a toaster or a fridge, and be able to do whatever user wants.

Prima.VeraI use home a local account since I don't need that bs with username and password prompt every time I start my PC or resume from sleep mode.

In the "Winaero Tweaker" app, at "Boot and Logon" >> "Enable User Auto Logon Checkbox", there is an option to appear the box "Users must enter a username and password to use this computer". Then, just open NETPLWIZ, select the admin user, uncheck this box and enter the admin user password, restart the PC and Windows will login directly without requiring the user password, even though it has been established. And when the person shares files over the network, a small window will appear on other devices asking for the user name and password, which prevents people without the user name and password from accessing the shared files. For this window to appear, the "Enable password protected sharing" must be enabled in the "Network and Sharing Center\Advanced sharing settings".

When the user goes to view its passwords in the browser, the browser asks him to enter its password. Having the user admin password established increases security for the user.

The user MUST NOT click randomly on the Winaero Tweaker app without knowing what it is doing because the options in Winaero Tweaker take effect immediately: as soon as you click, it makes the changes immediately. So, the user MUST ONLY click on what it knows it is doing.

Random_UserThis is still a walled garden. There's no freedom of choice, even from the software standpoint.
...
Now take most linux distros, which can be installed on a toaster or a fridge, and be able to do whatever user wants.

You forget that most users aren't like us here on this forum, most users couldn't give a rat's ass about choice so long as the device works and does what they need it to do. Users like us are a niche segment of the market.

Even myself, I'm finding that with age, my want to tweak stuff is waning. With that being said, my next computer might very well be a Mac if Microsoft continues with their bullshit.

stimpy88Linux is awful for home use. You need a PHD in computer science to fix it or make it do pretty much anything, let alone there being no good software for it. You can't beat Office, Photoshop, Premier the list goes on and on. And we won't mention the terrible drivers etc...

This is patently false on every point.[no offense to you personally] Further edit: While Linux is not a perfect replacement for Windows, it is not at all difficult to use. Office, Photoshop & Premier are not unbeatable and have a great many very competent(and in a few cases batter) replacements. For example, LibreOffice make MS Office look like over-priced junk and Open Office is still a very good alternate.

trparkyIf Microsoft pulls any more bullshit, my next system will probably be a Mac. I'm getting away from gaming so the lack of the ability to game won't really be a problem.

remixedcator just go with linux! and keep your hardware!

This. RemixedCat successfully moved to Linux from Windows. I'm debating the same move. @trparky Give Linux a try before going Mac. Apple's walled garden is not the paradise it's cracked up to be. Linux has it's problems, but the liberty factor can not be understated.

My personal fav is Linux Mint XFCE, but there are a bunch of other distro's that are great too.

I digress and will end this line of discussion as it's diverging from the topic.

trparkyYou forget that most users aren't like us here on this forum, most users couldn't give a rat's ass about choice so long as the device works and does what they need it to do. Users like us are a niche segment of the market.

Even myself, I'm finding that with age, my want to tweak stuff is waning. With that being said, my next computer might very well be a Mac if Microsoft continues with their bullshit.

Sadly, but truth. The age, lack of time and attention required for other things, give so much less encouragement to tinker. But what is worse, the MS doesn't give a choice or brake either. So it's either waste hours with futile efforts for deshittification the Windows, or put the same amount of time and efforts to learn linux. Both have their cons.

But if it fits your needs, go with Mac. No one can tell someone what to do. Neither choice is an ultimate win for the user, anyway.

lexluthermiesterApple's walled garden is not the paradise it's cracked up to be.

Since I already own an iPhone and most of my content is already in the Apple ecosystem, the next step is to, of course, go full Apple.

Random_UserSo it's either waste hours with futile efforts for deshittification the Windows, or put the same amount of time and efforts to learn linux.

Or go with the Mac where you don't have to deal with either of those situations. Remember, you still have the terminal in MacOS where you can access the UNIX/Posix system that's under the hood.

trparkySince I already own an iPhone and most of my content is already in the Apple ecosystem, the next step is to, of course, go full Apple.

Fair enough then. If you're already there and you enjoy it, then do carry on.

Vayra86Yeah some five minutes of search already led me to the jackpot. I'm gonna be sidegrading soon lol

It's been a blessing on my laptop. Committed memory is just RAM use, no 15GB of pagefile doing nothing, power consumption with the new battery saver mode actually helps, the race to idle is much faster so I finally get 4 to 5 hours of battery on this Alder Lake-P series, and the new colour management is a solid improvement.
It refuses a Microsoft account, only accepts a corporate/education or local one during installation (you can use a Microsoft account once it finishes, but no enforced one bothering you), the new installer looks nice, and overall it's just what consumer Windows 11 should have always been.

Just added the store back (optional), and it's good to go.

Plus it's the only real safe option for old hardware without UEFI/TPM/Secureboot support, IoT LTSC is a Windows 10 drop-in replacement there.

GoldenXIt's been a blessing on my laptop. Committed memory is just RAM use, no 15GB of pagefile doing nothing, power consumption with the new battery saver mode actually helps, the race to idle is much faster so I finally get 4 to 5 hours of battery on this Alder Lake-P series, and the new colour management is a solid improvement.
It refuses a Microsoft account, only accepts a corporate/education or local one during installation (you can use a Microsoft account once it finishes, but no enforced one bothering you), the new installer looks nice, and overall it's just what consumer Windows 11 should have always been.

Just added the store back (optional), and it's good to go.

Plus it's the only real safe option for old hardware without UEFI/TPM/Secureboot support, IoT LTSC is a Windows 10 drop-in replacement there.

Been toying with it. Not quite perfect, but close. Takes A LOT less time to get set up to my particular configuration standard.

lexluthermiesterFair enough then. If you're already there and you enjoy it, then do carry on.

Yeah. But I'm not there yet. Microsoft hasn't pissed me off enough for me to move over quite yet. I'm sure they will at some point in the future.

GoldenXIt is

Doesn't seem that way to me through legitimate ways..........

Skill issue.

trparkyYou forget that most users aren't like us here on this forum, most users couldn't give a rat's ass about choice so long as the device works and does what they need it to do. Users like us are a niche segment of the market.

Even myself, I'm finding that with age, my want to tweak stuff is waning. With that being said, my next computer might very well be a Mac if Microsoft continues with their bullshit.

Yeah, the older I get, the more I want my OS to be boring and predictable. It's why MS has become such a turn-off to me. They keep throwing out new stuff, which in itself wouldn't be much of a problem, but it's how they go about it. Big giant ugly "pre" icons appear on your taskbar, ads and recommendations overrun your experience, and sometimes they just default you to their services (OneDrive) once you sign in with your MSA. Edge is just about the ugliest abomination there is when it's left to all its fluff and "recommended features." On Windows, it feels like you're constantly wrestling with the "Microsoft Way" just to get the OS to behave how you want. I believe design, presentation, and usability matter just as much as compatibility in an OS, perhaps even more so. IMO, one really has to need Windows to tolerate the experience.

GoldenX26100 is RTM, the rest of the tricks of the book work on it, and that's all the rules let me say.

I think it's Windows 12 that will substantially turn the thumbscrews on cloud services at the centre of your home computer, as well as rise of the possibility of a Windows subscription model, due to the "cost" of operating A.I. servers. I'm sure it has a new flashy interface, and will work almost completely using A.I. I doubt it will have anything new that Gamers have to have. But I guess we will see.

But I will say that 24H2 is what Windows 11 should have been on day one. I can finally keep Windows set to HDR all the time for one, as it finally colour manages the whole OS! And as you say, you can still use all the tricks to get the OS working the "correct" way.

I don't know if you guys are interested, and maybe you all know about this already... But I found a wonderful autounattend.xml generator that helps remove the bloat, and takes care of the offline account situation, among many other nice things...

Generate autounattend.xml files for Windows 10/11 (schneegans.de)

stimpy88I think it's Windows 12 that will substantially turn the thumbscrews on cloud services at the centre of your home computer

Windows 12 is currently a myth. Please stop with that.

stimpy88I don't know if you guys are interested, and maybe you all know about this already... But I found a wonderful autounattend.xml generator that helps remove the bloat, and takes care of the offline account situation, among many other nice things...

Generate autounattend.xml files for Windows 10/11 (schneegans.de)

Now that's nice!

lexluthermiesterWindows 12 is currently a myth. Please stop with that.

It's never coming out then? Nobody knew Windows 11 was coming either.

But I will say it is very confusing with the amount of "effort" MS are putting into 24H4, it leaves me wondering what exactly Win12 will be other than maybe a slight UI refresh.

stimpy88It's never coming out then? Nobody knew Windows 11 was coming either.

But I will say it is very confusing with the amount of "effort" MS are putting into 24H4, it leaves me wondering what exactly Win12 will be other than maybe a slight UI refresh.

From my understanding, all the Windows 12 rumors appeared exactly from the fact that 24H2 is a massive update, even compared to other FUs previously. Then, as time went on, it turned out that it really is just an update and not a new OS revision.

Obviously, this isn’t me saying that Win 12 (or whatever MS ends up calling it) is not coming out ever, but so far it doesn’t seem to be in development. Then again, 11 also wasn’t supposed to be a thing until MS decided to repurpose the bones of 10X to create it.

Right, 10 was supposed to be the last version, right up until MS suddenly announced 11, and if I recall correctly, there was only a very short delay between the announcement and 11's launch. It's understandable that people felt blindsided. 12 may not be officially in the works, but at this point I think you'd have to be mildly insane to assume that a new version of Windows won't eventually materialize.

Either way, MS clearly feels quite comfortable messing with their 11 users. Whatever 11's current state may be, users can't trust that MS won't drastically "alter the deal," Vader-style, at some point, or indeed perhaps at many points, in the future. That lack of trust is a red flag in and of itself, even if the product ultimately remains mostly fine (due to a combination of third-party workarounds, and a cycle of consumer/media backlashes against MS's worst plans, e.g. Recall).