So far the only changes I’ve noticed in windows 11 are extra steps to do things that used to be simple, constant bullying to use Onedrive and just unnecessary various bloat.

Darmok N JaladThat's the thing, MS probably does see how unpopular some things are if they harvest telemetry. I think we see it when certain apps/products get canned. They like to counter this with something new, but people don't trust it.

I'm not so sure. There are things that you have to use, for example the Start menu or the file explorer. MS only sees that you're using them, they don't see your experience.

Chrispy_Yeah, I feel like the start menu only really works flawlessly if you're using a Microsoft account and Edge is your default browser.

Look, there's a lot of things to not like about Windows today. Legitimate things. But I have literally never used edge nor an MS account and start is working fine for me. This sounds like some early BS they must've fixed a while ago.

izy

Statistically W10 will perform better. However its lacking a lot of modern framebuffer tech that WILL make your game feel smoother. Kaiden from SpecialK can retrofit a lot of this into 10, but with 11, its just built in. To me, that makes it the better gaming OS, honestly. Stats be damned.

R-T-BLook, there's a lot of things to not like about Windows today. Legitimate things. But I have literally never used edge nor an MS account and start is working fine for me. This sounds like some early BS they must've fixed a while ago.

Of course yours works, you're running IoT, rather than the mainstream version of Windows 11.

You made the decision not to run the regular version of Windows 11, presumably because IoT strips out all of the Copilot AI bullshit and allows you to disable/uninstall/isolate 36 additional pieces of tracking/telemetry/advertising/bloat.

Chrispy_Of course yours works, you're running IoT, rather than the mainstream version of Windows 11.

No, I'm evaluating it on my personal workstation but most of my org is still using bog standard enterprise which is binary identical to retail pro.

It'd cost a pretty penny to fully migrate and I'm still not certain its worth it.

ShihabThis I have to disagree with.
Any major software has teething problems, especially one as huge as Windows, but 10 had them far longer than 7 thanks to MS outsourcing QA to the end users. It did become stable enough towards the end, at which point, amusingly, it began turning into another 7 (approaching eol after people have finally started getting used to it with everyone hating the next version).

Microsoft dev - Good news boss people are finally liking 10, its stabilised after all these years, and we are golden, we just keep adding features every few years and everyone is happy.
Boss - Ok now is the time it expire 10 and start again, make a new UI.
Microsoft dev - Boss did you just hear what I said.
Boss - Listen, its too boring right when we just polishing up the golden goose, we need it rough and different for giggles.
Microsoft dev - Umm boss, we finally got the majority of peeps moved over.
Boss - Do I care? Listen boy, release 11, and whilst you at it, our friends at Dell need to sell some more stuff so add these instructions to the compiler and make TPM an installation requirement.
Microsoft dev - Ok gotcha.
Boss - We still maintaining this thing anyway, its not like Nvidia and co are going to abandon the Windows which has the bulk of users on it, so we keep our friend's happy whilst selling lots of LTSC and ESU licences, its all good.

"Windows 10 Usage Records Uptick, Windows 11 Drops"
*dons tinfoil hat*
Is it a coincidence that all Intel prebuilt computers released with W11, are 13th and 14th Gen? Hmmm
Might explain the drop off. :D

DaemonForceLol the same survey that says everyone is on the 3060 while you have to SCROLL just to find a crumb of RX 580 appear. That's hilarious.

Lmao you're trying to accuse me of something I didn't intend to do while you totally ignored my reasoning. That's hilarious.

Microsoft should support Windows 10 for at least another 10 years. Seriously.

Without Windows 10, millions of perfectly usable PCs will become toxic waste for the environment overnight.

The world's big companies need to finally realize that there is no B Planet for us.

PsyclownSo far the only changes I’ve noticed in windows 11 are extra steps to do things that used to be simple, constant bullying to use Onedrive and just unnecessary various bloat.

I take it you never drag and drop items into the taskbar?
Never summon jumplists when flicking app icons?
Any integrations that ever made Explorer convenient?
No language/code switching with IME or anything?
These things don't behave normally and often break after updates.
I don't like having to click the task bar repeatedly, (waiting for it to crash) and reopen all my workflow just to carry on with what I was doing every minute I need to navigate to another window.

Sabotaged_EnigmaLmao you're trying to accuse me of something I didn't intend to do while you totally ignored my reasoning. That's hilarious.

NhonhoWithout Windows 10, millions of perfectly usable PCs will become toxic waste for the environment overnight.

I have no delusions about this one. There are plenty of reasons to stay on 10 long after it goes EOL and none of them apply to the majority that bought office computers.
There are a bunch of gov/vol contracts that will obsolete those systems in favor of new stuff. The computers get junked by the pallet load and staged for landfill.
People won't check out recyclers or anything even when suggested. Even for me it's out of sight out of mind but when presented with a free box, there's a chance I give it a home.
I took a free Win7 box (A VISTA PC) with an Athlon 64, 2GB DDR2, gave it 20TB of storage and a 10GbE SFP with a DAC connection to my workstation.
Imaged Windows Server 2016 (1st gen Windows 10 Server) Core to a USB chip and stuffed it into my desk where it works 24/7 storing and delivering my own content.



Does a pretty good job and idles like this when my Internet shares and internal SQL/.NET web stuff is off.

I could always do the same by loading it with 2016 Nanoserver or 2019 Core or even 2022 Core, maybe even Azure but it's a fool's errand. I don't need to match OS level or hardware.
Windows Server 2016 may be EOL but the features at all three distribution levels are good enough to interface with Windows 8/10/11 desktops and will remain that way.
People don't have to go to the lengths that I do just to get an antique working in the modern age. There are reasons to keep it on Win7 just as there are reasons not to do so.
Beyond a certain date, linux will not carry, which is really weird to think about but I learned that one pretty quickly. I don't agree with how this stuff is handled because most of it rots.
There's no failing of government to make a 2nd hand PC available to the public, it is a failing of person that won't consider the possibility of "maybe it's time for a 2nd PC" and that sucks.
It's also never a problem until you need one.

So the boxes that go to landfill, were most likely already destined for it. They didn't have to be eWaste but they were manufactured with THE minimum spec and people don't want them.
They become toxic waste up and down the entire chain.

ChaitanyaNot surprising people are avoiding Win 11.

Why is that?

Sabotaged_EnigmaScrew this Steam survey. It's not accurate at all.

This. It rarely is accurate. The only thing the Steam survey is good for is learning what STEAM users are doing. There are alot of non-Steam gamers.

NhonhoMicrosoft should support Windows 10 for at least another 10 years. Seriously.

Hell No.

What microsoft should do is go back to Windows 7 and pick up from there. Windows 10 was and still is lipstick on a very ugly pig.

Sabotaged_EnigmaLmao you're trying to accuse me of something I didn't intend to do while you totally ignored my reasoning. That's hilarious.

Welcome to the front page of TPU, sadly.

Caring1"Windows 10 Usage Records Uptick, Windows 11 Drops"
*dons tinfoil hat*
Is it a coincidence that all Intel prebuilt computers released with W11, are 13th and 14th Gen? Hmmm
Might explain the drop off. :D

Hate to say this, but yeah, that's some tin-foil hat stuff. The main reason for the lack of adoption is all of the draconian, goose-stepping crap microsoft is bringing to the table with Windows 11. Once all of that crap is removed, Windows 11 is an absolutely WONDERFUL operating system, but most people don't know how to(properly) remove all of the crap. Those of us that do, love it! Sadly, we are in the minority..

Sabotaged_EnigmaScrew this Steam survey. It's not accurate at all.
I've been tracing those records for three years and found that those models (among GPUs) which take less than 0.15% don't show up at all, and there are almost seasonal huge changes in manufacturer percentages (this month one grows and next month it falls back to normal). I don't think that's explainable or believable. What? All their users unplug or plug together at the same time monthly?

The Steam Hardware Survey is voluntary and the results are limited to the people who bother completing the form.

It's mostly only pertinent to Valve. It's not a good way to assess software or hardware popularity for the PC industry in general because there are other non-Steam platforms (Epic Games, Battle.net, EA, etc.) and *gasp* non-gaming usage cases.

Similarly Steam's concurrent user report is also a lousy way to assess what's popular in gaming because it doesn't capture other PC platforms (*cough* Fortnite/WoW/LoL/Roblox *cough*) or other non-PC gaming platforms (PS, Xbox, Switch, mobile).

There are several PCs in my house and not all of them have Steam installed. Even amongst the Windows PCs that do have Steam installed, I doubt if I have submitted my results more than a couple of times. I know that my current primary gaming rig has never been submitted to the Steam Hardware Survey.

It's also subject to the unknown skill of Valve's data analysts in processing and categorizing the results correctly. The monthly variances don't instill much confidence that Valve's people are particularly rigorous in how they run this survey.

Amusingly, there's probably a seasonal dip in Windows 11 in the summer because some kids are out of school and aren't playing games on school-issued hardware. But that's just speculation. Downgrading from Windows 11 to Windows 10 is not effortless so we can safely assume it's not that people are downgrading for the summer.

In the end, if you don't work for Valve, you can just enjoy the Steam Hardware Survey for its entertainment value, not for industry insight.

cvaldesThe Steam Hardware Survey is voluntary and the results are limited to the people who bother completing the form.

Exactly! Not everyone want to participate and you have to actually set it up to do so. The real-world numbers are likely different from the survey numbers. By how much? Who knows at all.

lexluthermiesterThe main reason for the lack of adoption is all of the draconian, goose-stepping crap microsoft is bringing to the table with Windows 11. Once all of that crap is removed, Windows 11 is an absolutely WONDERFUL operating system, but most people don't know how to(properly) remove all of the crap. Those of us that do, love it! Sadly, we are in the minority..

How does one properly remove all the crap? I'm assuming O&O ShutUp10++ doesn't do enough mitigation?

Asking for a friend. :pimp:

FierceRedHow does one properly remove all the crap? I'm assuming O&O ShutUp10++ doesn't do enough mitigation?

Asking for a friend. :pimp:

I don't touch that utility. I'm sure it's ok, it's just not a part of my methodology. As of late, I'm using a autounattend.xml file configured to my liking which does most of the heavy lifting, followed by WinAeroTweaker and CCleanerPortable(dispute is bad reputation I only use the apps removal and start-up editing functionality) as well as a few regedit .reg files to polish things up.

lexluthermiesterHate to say this, but yeah, that some tin-foil hat stuff. The main reason for the lack of adoption is all of the draconian, goose-stepping crap microsoft is bringing to the table with Windows 11. Once all of that crap is removed, Windows 11 is an absolutely WONDERFUL operating system, but most people don't know how to(properly) remove all of the crap. Those of us that do, love it! Sadly, we are in the minority..

Honestly, I don't even want to learn that stuff. If you have to heavily modify an OS to make it work, then it's not a good OS and is best avoided.

izy

The problem with this test is he is disabling one of the flagship features of 11 (enhanced memory security), this to me doesnt make it a 10 vs 11 test as he is basically emulating 10 on 11 vs native 10. The first few graphs from his older testing were ok, but then he omitted results on the newer test for 11 in its default configuration.

R-T-BLook, there's a lot of things to not like about Windows today. Legitimate things. But I have literally never used edge nor an MS account and start is working fine for me. This sounds like some early BS they must've fixed a while ago.


Statistically W10 will perform better. However its lacking a lot of modern framebuffer tech that WILL make your game feel smoother. Kaiden from SpecialK can retrofit a lot of this into 10, but with 11, its just built in. To me, that makes it the better gaming OS, honestly. Stats be damned.

Its good flip mode is now supported by Microsoft as a toggle in Win11, although the tech is still natively in 10, thats how specialk is able to use it, just you need specialk to turn it on in Windows 10. (devs could also choose to use it in their games by default but it seems the majority dont bother, hence why specialk was created).

AusWolfHonestly, I don't even want to learn that stuff. If you have to heavily modify an OS to make it work, then it's not a good OS and is best avoided.

It really not that difficult. Takes me about 2hours to get Win11 installed "properly" and another 2 or 3 hours to config/setup to my strict standards. But the base install? Yeah about 30 minutes without any additional tweaks beyond the autounattend.xml. If you want a quick run down, head over to the Windows 11 Discussion thread and tag me..

chrcolukThe problem with this test is he is disabling one of the flagship features of 11 (enhanced memory security), this to me doesnt make it a 10 vs 11 test as he is basically emulating 10 on 11 vs native 10. The first few graphs from his older testing were ok, but then he omitted results on the newer test for 11 in its default configuration.

While I dislike agreeing with Steve Walton on anything, I agree with him on that one. The enhanced memory security is really only useful IF you run enterprise level activities. It's not something that will benefit the general consumer or small business user and as such, microsoft enabling it on consumer machines is silly.

chrcolukMicrosoft dev - Good news boss people are finally liking 10, its stabilised after all these years, and we are golden, we just keep adding features every few years and everyone is happy.
Boss - Ok now is the time it expire 10 and start again, make a new UI.
Microsoft dev - Boss did you just hear what I said.
Boss - Listen, its too boring right when we just polishing up the golden goose, we need it rough and different for giggles.
Microsoft dev - Umm boss, we finally got the majority of peeps moved over.
Boss - Do I care? Listen boy, release 11, and whilst you at it, our friends at Dell need to sell some more stuff so add these instructions to the compiler and make TPM an installation requirement.
Microsoft dev - Ok gotcha.
Boss - We still maintaining this thing anyway, its not like Nvidia and co are going to abandon the Windows which has the bulk of users on it, so we keep our friend's happy whilst selling lots of LTSC and ESU licences, its all good.

Or maybe:

Honestly the Steam survey is only a indicator because it rarely prompts me even when I have changed hardware so I do not know if it's fully up-2-date.

cvaldesThe Steam Hardware Survey is voluntary and the results are limited to the people who bother completing the form.

The first part is correct, the second isn't very much so.
All the user has to do is tick "I agree" and click "Next" in the popup they get if they were selected to do so. The program automatically collects the data and transmits it to Valve.

lexluthermiesterThe real-world numbers are likely different from the survey numbers. By how much? Who knows at all.

If you ever want to see a statistician squirm, repeat this exact line to them. :roll:

Seriously though, what you're building for here is a paradox. To measure the accuracy of a model requires truth about the population to compute against, to get this truth we need to sample and measure (here: survey), which is basically what you want tested in the first place.

The onus on Valve is to ensure a large enough sample, and a random enough selection process (and a reliable enough sampling, but polling hardware specs is very trivial these days, so we can disregard that). Not being transparent about either does warrant care when using their stats, but to call it "inaccurate" is nothing more than argument from ignorance.

cvaldes' point about the numbers being useful only for Steam is probably the strongest argument here. But still not too damning. At least, as far as PC gaming market goes. I concur that it's utterly useless for the entire PC industry. I would criticize the op for rushing to conclusions regarding trends, but to their defense, the did limit their inference to "preference among gamers."

ShihabIf you ever want to see a statistician squirm, repeat this exact line to them. :roll:

The only way to get anywhere near accurate numbers is to do a poll where everyone participates and has no reason or incentive to be less than honest. Otherwise, it's just a "Hey, here's what's going on with this limited group of people!" kind of thing.

lexluthermiesterThe only way to get anywhere near accurate numbers is to do a poll where everyone participates and has no reason or incentive to be less than honest. Otherwise, it's just a "Hey, here's what's going on with this limited group of people!" kind of thing.

The only way to make every computer user participate is by forced telemetry, which I cannot in good faith agree with.

AusWolfThe only way to make every computer user participate is by forced telemetry, which I cannot in good faith agree with.

That's why Steam would never do that. Can you imagine the uproar over Steam snooping through users PCs without permission and reporting their specs in the survey. Even though it's anonymous there would be a file on Steam of each user and their hardware/software? There is a file kept already of the volunteers to ensure that users aren't double represented in the survey. That's how Steam knows not to add your specs if you have not had any hardware/software changes. People would be accusing them of selling the info. They already get enough negative reactions around the net for being a monopoly which is untrue for anyone that even understands what a monopoly really is by definition.