AusWolfPersonally, I'm not on Windows 11 because it's a massive spyware. The things mentioned in the article have nothing to do with it.

Is it? Not seeing anything here...

I'm quite happy with my 11 so far, I can even align the start menu to the left hand side of the screen, so all is well... :D Not too demanding am I

SL2XP and W10 wasn't never as good as W7 from day one.

W10 dropped the control over WU, it got completely dumbed down, because they know what's best for you. You know, Windows updating and restarting became a problem all of a sudden, for a LOT of people.

It was a HUGE drawback, and seemingly a fact people seems to have forgotten in this thread, and no, you don't have to explain why MS did it, or workarounds.

I also remember the Service Pack 1 and onwards Windows 7 woes though. That wasn't pretty either and even if you had it installed, you were still downloading security updates all the time nonetheless. I do prefer the current way they deploy Half yearly builds, and as long as you were on max postpone (semi annual / 365 days behind schedule) it was bug free too.

ChaitanyaWin 10 was also a massive downgrade over Win7, people didnt upgrade to Win 10 and were rather forced to upgrade thanks to Zen 1 and Kaby Lake CPUs culling support for Win 7. Also MS decided not to support Dx 12 in OS's prior to Win 10 forcing anyone who had DX12 ready GPU(RTX 20 series completely dropped Win 7 support) to upgrade to Win10. Compared to Win 7 Windows 10 was an experiment in shoving spyware down users throat and when people accepted that Spyware, MS went full steam with Win 11 spyware. Given how most things from MS have moved away from offline to online(Win 11 is quite flaky when not connected to Internet) fully expecting Win 12 to same old Win 11 but with more "AI" and spying.

Still Running Win 7 on my 1800X back up rig. Win 10 as well as 11 are forced OS upgrades for the average person.

The reality is that Win 7 is still overall a better OS for what it does and I can know the difference between the rigs. There is still part of me wanting to go back to Win 7 on my main rig.

DavenThe Steam hardware survey is completed nerfed by Chinese data. All those spikes accompany a large uptick in Chinese language users. The 6750 GRE is also a popular GPU in China. I'm not sure exactly how the numbers are screwed up by Chinese users but I suspect firewalls changes, bots and/or internet cafe computer logins.

If Steam would add some damn filters and region specific data, we would all have a better sense of what's going on. Instead they lump all the data into one large spreadsheet.

I would like more filters to get more of the info that I want specifically but in Steam's defense they aren't charging a fee for the survey and it's not intended to be scientifically accurate. It's just a freebie that they offer which no other digital store even bothers to do.

DarkholmWindows 11 is "okayish" when installed as Enterprise LTSC version without all of that spyware MS store, Copilot and other crap. I have it on my test rig and it is OK. Initial installation was only 14 GB fat.
But main Windows OS is still Win10 and it will be as long as it's supported (and maybe above and beyond that via also LTSC version :D )

Don't forget to use non-spyware internet browsers, too. The thing that spies on you the most is Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, Yandex Browser, Opera.
Learn how to use private browsers. Find one.

Not every Steam user submits their hardware/OS data to Steam every month so results just vary each month.

ARFDon't forget to use non-spyware internet browsers, too. The thing that spies on you the most is Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, Yandex Browser, Opera.
Learn how to use private browsers. Find one.

Mmmmm... using Firefox since 2004 (0.9 version, jumped from Mozilla suite) and I am finding it very good for my needs. If something in "private needs" occurs, there is TorBrowser+VPN combo :D
Chrome, Edge and other Chromium-based crap piles are not installed on my PC :)

LauncestonianSpyware or not, what about your government & ISPs?

Windows 11 boasts a ton of telemetry, bing (ads) integration, things you actually don't want are in there. take also into account that you almost forced to use a "online account" which connects your windows 11 with your online identity.

In regards of your ISP: just change the DNS to 1.1.1.1 (Cloudflare) - if your really paranoid use Proton VPN followed with Secure Core ON.

Just live with the idea that any communication your throwing online can be read by third parties. Even whatsapp, who claims to have E2E but does have backdoors for the police on their ends lol.

The main reason I'm staying on win10 is because I actually know how to get Windows Update to behave itself. It took a few years longer than I'd like to admit...

I break out in cold sweat just thinking about moving to win11.

JismWindows 11 boasts a ton of telemetry, bing (ads) integration, things you actually don't want are in there. take also into account that you almost forced to use a "online account" which connects your windows 11 with your online identity.

In regards of your ISP: just change the DNS to 1.1.1.1 (Cloudflare) - if your really paranoid use Proton VPN followed with Secure Core ON.

Just live with the idea that any communication your throwing online can be read by third parties. Even whatsapp, who claims to have E2E but does have backdoors for the police on their ends lol.

My W11 runs on an offline account, no TPM, no Windows Store, Copilot, or Bing nonsense. I used Edge to download firefox and that's the last I'll see of MS' online bullshit. You don't even need LTSC for this, just make a bootable USB with Rufus.

Vayra86My W11 runs on an offline account, no TPM, no Windows Store, Copilot, or Bing nonsense. I used Edge to download firefox and that's the last I'll see of MS' online bullshit. You don't even need LTSC for this, just make a bootable USB with Rufus.

You use ISP email?

I've been gaming on Steam with Manjaro for months now. I actually just formatted my SSD Windows drive so I could put it in an older laptop and installed Ubuntu on it.

Vayra86My W11 runs on an offline account, no TPM, no Windows Store, Copilot, or Bing nonsense. I used Edge to download firefox and that's the last I'll see of MS' online bullshit. You don't even need LTSC for this, just make a bootable USB with Rufus.

I don't know if it's possible to NOT use Edge in W11. The engine runs in the background for various purposes, and it can't really be disabled permanently. If you do manage to remove it, it will find its way back again.

P4-630You use ISP email?

Caught me lol, that's an ancient hotmail account, which I still exclusively access through a browser.

Darmok N JaladI've been gaming on Steam with Manjaro for months now. I actually just formatted my SSD Windows drive so I could put it in an older laptop and installed Ubuntu on it.

I don't know if it's possible to NOT use Edge in W11. The engine runs in the background for various purposes, and it can't really be disabled permanently. If you do manage to remove it, it will find its way back again.

What's Edge used for then if I don't use it?

What does Windows 11 actually add to 10 that is an improvement to your average person?

It's worse at gaming, sometimes by double-digit percentages.
The UI is worse for non-touch mouse-based users.
The amount of unwanted content in the form of nagging, advertising widgets, ad-laden web results for local start menu/explorer searching. Disabling some of this can completely break Start/Search/Explorer.
The relentless push of control towards Microsoft's SaaS subscription services, removing control from the user,
The injection of AI into everything as an opt-out rather than an opt-in process that actually harms core functionality if you opt-out.
The removal of even more classic control-panel/MSC configuration options without properly migrating all essential functionality to the modernUI/settings replacement drives me to powershell/CMD even more frequently.
The push towards mobile-first web apps for more and more first party applications. Why would anyone prefer that to just using a (cross-platform, cloud-synced, more accessible and more convenient) browser, ffs?

There's no reason why the couple of good improvements in W11 couldn't be just applied to W10:

More details in Task Manager
Window management and virtual desktops

Microsoft haven't bothered, but it doesn't matter, there are better third-party solutions than even W11's to those things, so if you really want an improvement you don't have to go to W11 to get them.

according to an urban legend, gamers use windows 10, set power plan to high performance, find privacy.sexy via reddit to disable hidden high-resources windows defender, then use virustotal for any .exe,get moar free cpu performance with disable inspectre, use nvcleaninstall to get rid of tracking, disable any kind of updates then game till midnight and never complains. take this statement with a grain of salt.

Icon CharlieStill Running Win 7 on my 1800X back up rig. Win 10 as well as 11 are forced OS upgrades for the average person.

The reality is that Win 7 is still overall a better OS for what it does and I can know the difference between the rigs. There is still part of me wanting to go back to Win 7 on my main rig.

If windows 7 wasn't a security concern, I'd agree with you.

For the basic tasks of adjusting your hardware settings, launching software, and finding/browsing drives - Windows 7 was a superior solution to 10 and 11. The improvements to Explorer's functionality in particular have come poisoned by the unwanted injection of web-searching, data-harvesting, AI suggestions, and advertising - which will cause poor explorer performance and even timeouts if those unnecessary web-requests and respective web-served bloat aren't working or their servers are overloaded.

I've been daily-driving W11 since it released and it's still inferior to W7 in so many ways despite me neutering as much of the BS as possible. Since I build and deploy machines I'm frequently exposed to Microsoft's idea of what W11 should be - ie, the out-of-the-box experience and it's terrifying in so many ways.

In MS mail there is a button to try the new Outlook. I clicked on it and it gave me a message that my inbox exceeded the Storage limit on my cloud (WTF) I went right back to mail. If they try to force that on me I am going back to 10 or jumping on Linux.

Chrispy_If windows 7 wasn't a security concern, I'd agree with you.

For the basic tasks of adjusting your hardware settings, launching software, and finding/browsing drives - Windows 7 was a superior solution to 10 and 11. The improvements to Explorer's functionality in particular have come poisoned by the unwanted injection of web-searching, data-harvesting, AI suggestions, and advertising - which will cause poor explorer performance and even timeouts if those unnecessary web-requests and respective web-served bloat aren't working or their servers are overloaded.

I've been daily-driving W11 since it released and it's still inferior to W7 in so many ways despite me neutering as much of the BS as possible. Since I build and deploy machines I'm frequently exposed to Microsoft's idea of what W11 should be - ie, the out-of-the-box experience and it's terrifying in so many ways.

Yeah to be honest I'm not seeing what I've missed on 10, running 11 now. Okay, I have rounded corners everywhere so now I can't wound myself on my Windows corners I guess?

That said I wanted a one-time install, didn't feel great doing that on an OS that's on the way out. And yeah... if I didn't have access to an LTSC (IoT most notably, because it kills all those stupid services I don't want nor ever need including the Store) I would certainly have opted for 10.

kapone32I clicked on it and it gave me a message that my inbox exceeded the Storage limit on my cloud (WTF)

Wait! You're telling me that outlook backs up the data it fetched from the cloud... to the cloud? :roll:

DavenThe Steam hardware survey is completed nerfed by Chinese data. All those spikes accompany a large uptick in Chinese language users. The 6750 GRE is also a popular GPU in China. I'm not sure exactly how the numbers are screwed up by Chinese users but I suspect firewalls changes, bots and/or internet cafe computer logins.

If Steam would add some damn filters and region specific data, we would all have a better sense of what's going on. Instead they lump all the data into one large spreadsheet.

While regional data would be useful it's also a privacy minefield, as certain hardware / software configuration could suddenly become very rare to the point they can track individual users.

But I will say that an uptick of windows 10 is mostly a change in the sampled users.

qlumWhile regional data would be useful it's also a privacy minefield, as certain hardware / software configuration could suddenly become very rare to the point they can track individual users.

Rare hardware aren't listed by name though. Valve groups listings with low shares under "Other." That should mitigate these concerns.

64KPeople are happy with Win 10. Why should they be forced to "upgrade" to Win 11

free cookies with Win 11

I'm going to stay on Win10 even past the "expiration" date as i don't give a shit about all that "security" scare with "ohh end of support win10", i'm the security for my computer.

I'm only going to be stopping using win10 when steam itself drops support or the games i play drop support for it which is going to be years and years after 2025, judging by how long it took for steam to end support for win7 from its end of service date.

EVEN if i upgrade hardware, i'm going to stay on win10 as it's much faster and pleasant to use than win11.

Businesses and industrial machinery still uses win 7 and winxp connected to the internet with no airgap or any nonsense, and they don't "explode" because they're "OHH INSECUUUUURE", security can be properly managed regardless of support.

I have 3 OSs on PC living on separate SSDs W7 , W11 , Clear Linux. From all 3 Clear Linux is the snappiest and W7 is the one that has always worked as expected for the past 8 years since it's last reinstall (this is the 3rd machine it got just migrated to from another one not installed , and I was forces to reinstall it because of SSD corruption 8y ago I strongly believe my 2010 install would be still kicking today 14 years later). So for W11 it does not feel snappy as Clear Linux it has some weird issues like minimizing Fullscreen game without evident reason or to be correct changing application focus and giving it to the Chrome on the same screen without reason (the evident ones are new message on Skype,Teams,Viber when they are on the same screen). I had weird networking issues with the drivers that came with it (not the best thing to see the network die or experience very high latency while playing multiplayer competitive games). So if I still have to spend hours/days/months to stabilize my system by software versions and drivers version and specific configurations why use W11 ??? Clear Linux is not a charm neither in the drivers department and needs the same if not bigger care in the drivers department not to mention they still refuse to have a proper GUI drivers managing tools but at least you are rewarded with very fast and stable environment once you set it up (and until their next update that will break some drivers or the GUI but this is mostly Nvidia related issues). So yeah no wonder people are sticking to the already stable and known W10 which I never used at home. OS should be there to provide your application an environment to exist not to go reconfigure it every couple of weeks or months (can you imagine doing that with your BIOS that often?)

That is my start menu (with a heavy blur applied for privacy) and the main reason I will not leave Win 10 until I absolutely have to. Right now it takes me two clicks or one keypress and one click to launch any one of my most used applications and I already know where they are so I don't even have to think about it. Total time from "I want to launch X application" to that application running is under a second.

I know for a fact the Win 11 start menu works better for some people, but unfortunately the "search for what you want" paradigm feels slow, inefficient and stupid to me. I don't expect any changes in Win 12 either so I'll use Win 10 until I no longer can and then I'll find some paid Win10-style star menu to install on whatever version of Windows I'm forced to use afterwards.

LycanwolfenI am still workin on getting Windows Server 2022 to be a gaming box. Because I love that server 2022 you can uninstall completely Windows Defender it saves over 1 GB of ram

I wouldn't bother. It's wasn't ready for prime time back in 2022 and I'll bet it's the same today.
Stuck to Server 2012 for as long as possible before adopting Win10 because I needed similar levels of control.
That's what it took to extend the life of my Phenom II X4 system.
The way the OS treated memory was different enough that I preferred the old way.
Also that was part of the 2009-2017 time period when I was still maxed at 4GB.
Things sure went 0-200 in a hurry. 2017: 8GB. 2019: 16GB DDR3/32GB DDR4. 2020: 64GB.
What did we learn? The size and speed matters. My next system will probably use 128GB UDIMMs.

Sabotaged_EnigmaScrew this Steam survey. It's not accurate at all.

Lol the same survey that says everyone is on the 3060 while you have to SCROLL just to find a crumb of RX 580 appear. That's hilarious.

DavenThe Steam hardware survey is completed nerfed by Chinese data.

The net cafes all throughout Asia are most likely driving up the figures on this and that appearing out of left field.

Vayra86What's Edge used for then if I don't use it?

WEBM/WEBP previews in Explorer and other oddities seem tied to it somehow. I still haven't fully looked into it but it's another Internet Explorer situation. There's kind of a lot to cover. Take a look at program defaults.

I haven't been able to adopt Win11 for personal or professional use. Everything about it is either such a massive resource hog or the design so insufferable that I'd rather just stay out of it. I jumped back and forth between Server 2016/2019/2022 all throughout the Win10 timeline while trying to commit to some adoption of Win10. Only 2016 stood out as ready for prime time but the design is so old now that in a creator situations it fights some apps, can't integrate containers or psuedo-VMs of any kind and the service gotchas are annoying. I fully trust it for production though. Runs great on the 1c/1t eMachines in Core and Nanoserver versions. If I went back to cloud development I would be remastering a copy of Nanoserver for my FX rack to be full power 24/7 duty. 2022 has way too many teething issues to be fully adopted and not suitable for creation. I'll stick to Win10 for general purpose stuff until something serious pushes it out. With any luck that won't be until 2030 at the earliest. Some newer hardware driver models appear to be supporting Win11 only so that might be the first thing to break rank. I'm expecting it.