I had it wishlisted but then I read the EULA and now I have the whole of BNE in my ignore list.



I wish I had data on how many people read the EULA, how many actually understand what is says, and how many actually accept it after understanding it.
My guess is most people are on the "didn't read/understand" group, with a handfull on the "I'm OK with it".
I also wish I could run a poll on Youtube content creators about this. It'd be interesting to know if they know how much they're giving away with that EULA.

Is it just something weird with the screenshots or textures are unusually..... rough? For a 2024 game it just doesn't look the part, I don't even consider myself much of a texture snob but it is very noticeable.

The game play and graphics look absolutely terrible.
I found out Bandai Namco fully owns the studio that released this impending flop, some people just dont learn from other recent lessons.

scottslayerThe game play and graphics look absolutely terrible.
I found out Bandai Namco fully owns the studio that released this impending flop, some people just dont learn from other recent lessons.

This game just got Concord'ed

NoneRainThis game just got Concord'ed

Totally different gameplay.

Just another generic, mystical Tomb Raider copy. A review I read said it was quite clunky and had a few glitches. These releases are all doomed to fail when they offer nothing new and have no real 'legacy' to promote them. Pretty sure a new Tomb Raider or Uncharted game would sell like hotcakes, just because of the IP.

I got this free for getting a 7900XTX I might install it later and see what’s what. Looks…..not the best.

NoneRainThis game just got Concord'ed

Just like Concord the developers/publishers (Bandai Namco owns them so same thing) put a lot of money into media side projects.
Unknown 9 currently has a 9 episode podcast, 2 books, and 1 comic issue so far with there being a total planned 5 projects other than those making 9 total.

It looks like forspoken

Its stunning how corporate can misfire so blatantly, and so often, with so many samey things. Some people really can't take a hint it seems

Even re-reading the press release, its like someone got lost in its own fantasy but forgot to take the audience along to tell them what it all means. 'Umbric abilities', a leap year society (wtf?!) faction and some Fold and mysteries and all,... so apparently there is a vibrant living world out there to discover, but all we see is one protagonist in totally random, completely empty environments, not a single NPC... so all the text is just text, and not even interesting text because you don't even know what the half of it means or looks like.

Perhaps that's why its called Unknown? At the end of this, you probably still haven't got a clue what you just did

Vayra86Its stunning how corporate can misfire so blatantly, and so often, with so many samey things. Some people really can't take a hint it seems

Even re-reading the press release, its like someone got lost in its own fantasy but forgot to take the audience along to tell them what it all means. 'Umbric abilities', a leap year society (wtf?!) faction and some Fold and mysteries and all,... so apparently there is a vibrant living world out there to discover, but all we see is one protagonist in totally random, completely empty environments, not a single NPC... so all the text is just text, and not even interesting text because you don't even know what the half of it means or looks like.

Perhaps that's why its called Unknown? At the end of this, you probably still haven't got a clue what you just did

Nail on head. Games with lore need to be simple, or easily understood. Dark Souls has a deep lore, I think, but I never cared for it. I enjoyed the game.

I'd argue books and visual media are where the audience is for such immersion. The game environment, mechanics, and excitement are what attracts most folk.

Having auxiliary sources to supplement the game is just poor planning. Same with extended cutscenes, something Sony is guilty of. Let me play and explore. Don't ask me to study a degree in fantasy realms in order for me to enjoy your game.

AGlezBI had it wishlisted but then I read the EULA and now I have the whole of BNE in my ignore list.



I wish I had data on how many people read the EULA, how many actually understand what is says, and how many actually accept it after understanding it.
My guess is most people are on the "didn't read/understand" group, with a handfull on the "I'm OK with it".
I also wish I could run a poll on Youtube content creators about this. It'd be interesting to know if they know how much they're giving away with that EULA.

Can you highlight what's so unique about this EULA ? I haven't seen much that isn't in any of the others to be honest?

Vayra86Can you highlight what's so unique about this EULA ? I haven't seen much that isn't in any of the others to be honest?

Sure. Just note some sections are not individually problematic and become problematic only in combination with others. That is mostly what makes EULAs hard to parse.
Also, I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

EDIT: I didn't say it was "unique".

3. LIMITED USE LICENSE.

a) Subject to the terms of this Agreement and your compliance with these terms, we grant you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license to use the Game for noncommercial use, for the term of this Agreement in your country of residence, on Hardware that you own or exclusively control and solely as permitted by the applicable platform usage rules or terms of use (if any). Any updates, supplements or replacements to the original Game are governed by this Agreement unless separate license terms accompany such update.

b) The preceding states the entirety of your rights with respect to the Game, and we reserve all rights in and to the Game not expressly granted to you in this Agreement. The rights granted in this Agreement are specifically conditioned upon the following and your full compliance with all other terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement. You will not do, or authorize or permit any third party to do, any of the following: (i) distribute, copy, license, rent, or sell the Game (except as expressly permitted by this license or the applicable platform usage rules); (ii) reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or attempt to discover the source code for the Game; (iii) modify, alter, or create any derivative works of the Game; (iv) remove, alter, or obscure any copyright, trademark, or other proprietary rights notice on or in the Game; or (v) otherwise use the Game in violation of this Agreement.

3a says you cannot run the game on your friends PC or if you're outside of your country of residense, say on vacation or travelling for work. I'm not clear if you could play the game in a company-owned PC assigned to you because the device would be technically owned by the company and under the control and supervision of the company's IT and security departments, if any.

3b says you cannot create derivative work. That's a very wide net that covers everything from Youtube videos to fanfics. You might be protected by fair use regulations or similar laws and regulations from your country of residence but not every country has those. If you're from the wrong country and publish a Youtube video of you playing the game they can have your ass in a platter if they want to (more on this later).

8. IN-GAME CURRENCY AND VIRTUAL ITEMS.

a) Bandai Namco may offer you the ability to: (i) purchase a limited license to use in-game currency (“Purchased Game Currency”); (ii) earn a limited license to use in-game currency by performing specified tasks in the Game (together with the Purchased Game Currency, “Game Currency”); and/or (iii) earn a limited license, and/or purchase a limited license with Game Currency, to virtual goods and services made available by Bandai Namco in the Game (“Virtual Items”). If Bandai Namco offers the ability to purchase or earn such licenses, Bandai Namco hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable, limited right and license to use such Game Currency or Virtual Items, as applicable, for your personal, non-commercial use exclusively in the Game, subject to the terms of this Agreement and your compliance therewith. All Purchased Game Currency and Virtual Items will be made available immediately upon purchase by you with money, anything of monetary value, or any monetary equivalent.

b) Game Currency may only be redeemed for Virtual Items for use in the Game and neither Game Currency nor Virtual Items are redeemable for money, any thing of monetary value, or for any monetary equivalent from Bandai Namco or any other person or entity, except as otherwise required by applicable law. Game Currency and Virtual Items do not have an equivalent value in real currency and do not act as a substitute for real currency. You acknowledge and agree that Bandai Namco may engage in actions that may impact the in-game attributes or perceived value of Game Currency and/or Virtual Items at any time, with or without notice, except as prohibited by applicable law. Bandai Namco, in its sole discretion, may impose limits on the amount of Game Currency that may be purchased, earned, or redeemed.

c) All purchases of Purchased Game Currency are final and are not refundable, transferable, or exchangeable under any circumstances, except as otherwise required by applicable law. Except for the purchase price of Purchased Game Currency and certain Virtual Items, Bandai Namco does not charge any fees for the access, use, or non-use of Game Currency or Virtual Items.

d) You may not transfer, sell, gift, exchange, trade, lease, sublicense, or rent Game Currency or Virtual Items except in the Game and as expressly permitted by Bandai Namco. You are only allowed to purchase Purchased Game Currency or Virtual Items from Bandai Namco or our authorized partners through the Game and not in any other way. Except as otherwise agreed herein, Bandai Namco reserves and retains all rights, title, and interest in and to the Game Currency and Virtual Items.

e) The licenses granted hereunder to Game Currency and Virtual Items will terminate upon termination of this Agreement in accordance with the Term Section, except as otherwise provided herein.

TL;DL you cannot ask for a refund and also don't own what you just bought and they can take it away or change it's value at any time.

9. USER CONTENT AND CONDUCT.

a) By posting any communication, information, intellectual property, material, messages, photos, graphics, videos, URLs, and other items or content to the Game (“User Content”), to the extent permitted by applicable local law, you hereby grant Bandai Namco a non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide license for the whole duration of the applicable legal protection of intellectual rights to use the User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof in connection with the Game and related goods and services including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, create derivative works from, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise use, distribute, exploit and communicate to the public by any and all means and media whether now known or hereafter devised without any further notice or compensation of any kind to you.

b) To the extent permitted by applicable law, you hereby acknowledge that any rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Bandai Namco’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Game and related goods and services under applicable law ("Moral Rights") cannot be granted to you, for technical and practical reasons due to the characteristics of the Game in which they will be included. If you reside outside the European Union, you hereby waive any Moral Rights, to the extent permitted by applicable law. The license granted to Bandai Namco survives any termination or revocation of this Agreement.

c) Bandai Namco may (for example in response to a claim from a copyright owner) review any User Content that is uploaded, published, stored, or displayed in the Game (“Posted”) provided that in the case of User Content shared as a part of any private message within the Game, Bandai Namco will not screen or review such content unless at least one party to the communication grants its consent (e.g. by reporting the message to Bandai Namco as objectionable). Bandai Namco reserves the right to delete any User Content. Although Bandai Namco does not regularly screen, edit, or monitor any of the User Content before or after they are Posted in the Game, Bandai Namco reserves the right to remove, screen, or edit any User Content Posted through the Game whenever if such User Content violates this Agreement and/or any third party right, applicable law, rule, or regulation. You are solely responsible for any User Content that you Post, use or transmit to any users or third parties.

d) Unless through the intentional fault or gross negligence of Bandai Namco, Bandai Namco is not responsible or liable for the conduct of any users, whether or not such conduct relates to the access or use of the Game. Bandai Namco cannot guarantee that other users will not use information that you share in the Game. If you have information that you would like to keep confidential and do not want others to use, do not Post it in the Game.

9a is related to 3b, meaning if they can or don't want to get you on 3b they can do whatever they want with the content you produce.

9b is making sure you know you don't have any rights to content even and that they do have the rights even in the event of you loosing yours.

9c is tricky becacause the the paragraph is mostly about in-game content but "Bandai Namco reserves the right to delete any User Content." sentence doesn't say it's for in-game content and there is a later sentence that explicitly gives them the right to "remove, screen, or edit any User Content Posted through the Game" which explicitt to the game and that means the prior sentence can be applied to all user content, in-game or not.

TL;DR

There is more but those are the main sticking points for me. Local laws can negate some of those, depending on where you live.
What I hate about it is BNE is giving themselves everything. For instance they can take a creator's video and use it to promote the game witout even having to credit the original creator, much less compensating them.

It's their attitude what I dislike the most. It shows they don't respect the people playing their games or care for them beyond what benefits BNE can themselves get.

Just remember I'm not a lawyer. I might have missinterpreted some or all of the above.

It wouldn't surprise me if that's in most EULAs. It's their property. It's their budget, so they're going to try and protect the monetisation of their product.

Obviously, it's a bit dumb, because a streamer making their game looks good has the potential to create more sales.

the54thvoidIt wouldn't surprise me if that's in most EULAs. It's their property. It's their budget, so they're going to try and protect the monetisation of their product.

Obviously, it's a bit dumb, because a streamer making their game looks good has the potential to create more sales.

EULAs have historically been created to protect a company and it's product. Having the rights to your content is something relatively new and not something I've see outside the gaming industry and some social media platforms. What bothers me most about the whole thing is that the worst EULAs are given to be read and accepted to the people least likely to do so. Can you really expect a teenager buying games on Steam to understand what it means to accept BNE's EULA? I don't think so. In most cases the people accepting the EULAs aren't even legal adults in their respective countries of residence and yet they are exposed to the same legal liabilites as the rest.

I think the main issue is EULAs are not taken into consideration when applying for age ratings. If having a 3rd party EULA automatically bumped the game classfication to adult-only they'd dissapear instantly from the gaming industry. As they exist right now they're taking advantage of literal children and nobody is batting an eye, which goes to show how little most people understand about the subject.

AGlezBEULAs have historically been created to protect a company and it's product. Having the rights to your content is something relatively new and not something I've see outside the gaming industry and some social media platforms. What bothers me most about the whole thing is that the worst EULAs are given to be read and accepted to the people least likely to do so. Can you really expect a teenager buying games on Steam to understand what it means to accept BNE's EULA? I don't think so. In most cases the people accepting the EULAs aren't even legal adults in their respective countries of residence and yet they are exposed to the same legal liabilites as the rest.

I think the main issue is EULAs are not taken into consideration when applying for age ratings. If having a 3rd party EULA automatically bumped the game classfication to adult-only they'd dissapear instantly from the gaming industry. As they exist right now they're taking advantage of literal children and nobody is batting an eye, which goes to show how little most people understand about the subject.

We have to appreciate the fact that EULA's are rarely enforced. Some steps are taken, sometimes, in rare occasions, at best. Its comparable to 'allowing' the mafia to exist in your town as the Sheriff - as long as they don't overstep their bounds and go on a rampage, just keep the peace. That's kinda where EULAs are right now legally. Its shitty, but all it takes is people taking the EULA to court to get it truly tested. We already know that governing law goes above it, so that presents numerous interesting potential cases.

Vayra86We have to appreciate the fact that EULA's are rarely enforced. Some steps are taken, sometimes, in rare occasions, at best. Its comparable to 'allowing' the mafia to exist in your town as the Sheriff - as long as they don't overstep their bounds and go on a rampage, just keep the peace. That's kinda where EULAs are right now legally.

That's not something I can appreciate, only tolerate and only because there's is nothing I can or am willing to do about it, except not getting involved with them by not giving my consent to their terms.

AGlezBThat's not something I can appreciate, only tolerate and only because there's is nothing I can or am willing to do about it, except not getting involved with them by not giving my concent to their terms.

Its all about circle of influence indeed :) Well played honestly, I can't fault you for it, its something more people should do. I've done similar with Ubisoft, EA, Blizzard, at this point. Not a single. Cent. Anymore.

Vayra86Ubisoft, EA, Blizzard

Those three have been on my black list for quite a while. BNE is the newest addition.

With the recent Ubisoft troubles I'm hoping they change their policies a bit but so far they're still trying to hold on and while they do my money is going somewhere else.
The sound of their valuation droping is a great background music while I'm playing excellent indie games with no strings attached. :D

Its clear that's a shit game with awful gameplay, where is the magic of video games of yesterday, what's the matter with the industry, stop killing video games idiots !!

AGlezBSure. Just note some sections are not individually problematic and become problematic only in combination with others. That is mostly what makes EULAs hard to parse.
Also, I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

Spoiler

EDIT: I didn't say it was "unique".



3a says you cannot run the game on your friends PC or if you're outside of your country of residense, say on vacation or travelling for work. I'm not clear if you could play the game in a company-owned PC assigned to you because the device would be technically owned by the company and under the control and supervision of the company's IT and security departments, if any.

3b says you cannot create derivative work. That's a very wide net that covers everything from Youtube videos to fanfics. You might be protected by fair use regulations or similar laws and regulations from your country of residence but not every country has those. If you're from the wrong country and publish a Youtube video of you playing the game they can have your ass in a platter if they want to (more on this later).



TL;DL you cannot ask for a refund and also don't own what you just bought and they can take it away or change it's value at any time.



9a is related to 3b, meaning if they can or don't want to get you on 3b they can do whatever they want with the content you produce.

9b is making sure you know you don't have any rights to content even and that they do have the rights even in the event of you loosing yours.

9c is tricky becacause the the paragraph is mostly about in-game content but "Bandai Namco reserves the right to delete any User Content." sentence doesn't say it's for in-game content and there is a later sentence that explicitly gives them the right to "remove, screen, or edit any User Content Posted through the Game" which explicitt to the game and that means the prior sentence can be applied to all user content, in-game or not.

TL;DR

There is more but those are the main sticking points for me. Local laws can negate some of those, depending on where you live.
What I hate about it is BNE is giving themselves everything. For instance they can take a creator's video and use it to promote the game witout even having to credit the original creator, much less compensating them.

It's their attitude what I dislike the most. It shows they don't respect the people playing their games or care for them beyond what benefits BNE can themselves get.

Just remember I'm not a lawyer. I might have missinterpreted some or all of the above.

Most EULA are f##ked-up. You own nothing, you have no rights, you can't do things, etc etc.
You're not wrong, but I think you would have to pass most games and software.

NoneRainYou're not wrong, but I think you would have to pass most games and software.

If I think I have to, then yes, I'll pass them all without batting an eye. I'm not missing out on entertainment because I didn't buy some game: there are more fun games, movies, books, etc. than I could possibly enjoy even if I devoted every single waking hour to it for the entirety of my lifetime. And more are being released every single day. From my point of view, their EULA is causing them to miss out on me and my very open wallet. :)

Also, if you read all your EULAs before accepting them you'll find most are doing what they're supposed to do and little more. Can you imagine what would happen if a AutoCAD's EULA gave AutoDesk the right to do whatever they wanted with any design created with it? The answer is AutoCAD wouldn't have survived as a product and a different company with a different sofware would dominate the market instead. Same with any other software designed to create that has achieved any measure of success, from MS Office to Adobe Photoshop.

Gaming is where you'll find the weirdest EULAs and the reason is very simple: most gamers don't read EULAs. The worst part is a sizeable chunk of the gamer population is under-age and they still have to accept the EULAs, which are legally binding BTW. In the end, the underlaying cause is ignorance. Little over a century ago you could sell youself into slavery by signing a contract without reading it. Today you can give away the rights to all your content and your privacy.

The funniest part, in a dark humor sort of way, is that is mostly the game publishers that come up with this crap. The game studios for the most part just want to make great games that people enjoy, but that requires capital and opens the door for publishers to do what they do.