Now can this be truncated now that it has been made clear?

www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-radeon-rx-8800-xt-is-actually-the-rx-9070-xt.330128/unread

eidairaman1Now can this be truncated now that it has been made clear?

www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-radeon-rx-8800-xt-is-actually-the-rx-9070-xt.330128/unread

Just a clarification about RDNA 3.5 being Radeon 8000, as AMD appearantly reserved that naming for Strix Halo.

So no High End this time?

Nice, finally AMD copied Nvidias branding, what a game changer.

AleksandarKultra-enthusiast high-end space

Dude just stop, just because the ex Radeon Boss called it “ultra enthusiast” you don’t have to do that. “enthusiast” is nonsense anyway, it’s just “High End” nothing changed. ;)

All that being said, can’t wait for the numbers especially RT performance and then later FSR 4 (first AI FSR).

they can call it whatever they want, what matters is perf/price

MicroUnCSo no High End this time?

lol :D

Does your cave have no connection to the world?

The only thing I want to know is if when they'll bring Strix or Strix Halo into a Desktop APU.

MicroUnCSo no High End this time?

That was known already for perhaps a year if not more.

MicroUnCSo no High End this time?

Nope, AMD wont help you get a cheaper Ngreedia GPU.

Neo_MorpheusNope, AMD wont help you get a cheaper Ngreedia GPU.

I wish AMD had the performance crown at least once to show everyone that Nvidia still wouldn't lower their prices by 1 single cent.

ymdhisThe only thing I want to know is if when they'll bring Strix or Strix Halo into a Desktop APU.

Unlikely, they want you to buy a card instead, but if, it would be expensive anyway. It'll be expensive in laptops. This is Strix Halo, Strix Point will probably come to desktops.

Neo_MorpheusNope, AMD wont help you get a cheaper Ngreedia GPU.

The last time that an AMD graphics card truly shook the market was probably when Polaris came out at $199, some 8 years ago. Nvidia's dominance has been pretty much uncontested since then. Hell, it's like AMD itself gave up trying to cater to their core audience, seeking loftier ambitions that they have ultimately and repeatedly failed to match or achieve.

This old press deck resonates more with the AMD customer base than anything else they have released since

www.slideshare.net/slideshow/radeon-rx-480-press-deck/63678478

I'm hopeful that with this new generation they learned their lesson and return to what made Polaris great. No pretentious BS, no lofty promises - just an unassuming GPU for the average consumer.

Dr. DroThe last time that an AMD graphics card truly shook the market was probably when Polaris came out at $199, some 8 years ago. Nvidia's dominance has been pretty much uncontested since then.

No no, RX 6000 times was hard for Nvidia, they had to push the bounderies (3090 Ti, 3090), and release the biggest chip as an cut down xx80, which they usually never did (GTX 780 was last time before that). This was all because AMD was very competitive with RTX 30 series. Since RTX 40 series they are weakly contested at high end again, 4090 has 0 competition. 4080 has middling competition and AMD's marketing was weak, which always helps Nvidia just dominate the market. It's not like Nvidia has better graphics cards everywhere, just high end.

Nvidia always was strong with marketing (so *was* intel, isn't anymore), AMD, not really. Ryzen yes, Athlon, okay-ish, Radeon, no. Marketing is key and very important. Mind share is very important and part of marketing.

AcENo no, RX 6000 times was hard for Nvidia, they had to push the bounderies (3090 Ti, 3090), and release the biggest chip as an cut down xx80, which they usually never did (GTX 780 was last time before that). This was all because AMD was very competitive with RTX 30 series. Since RTX 40 series they are weakly contested at high end again, 4090 has 0 competition. 4080 has middling competition.

No, it really was not hard... back then both companies were pretty much selling any cards that they could manufacture due to Covid and the crypto boom, but you forgot that NV was using the Samsung foundry and had its entire supply to itself, while AMD was pretty much prioritizing the server market as they always do. Most of AMD's silicon supply tends to go to the extremely high margin EPYC business, back then it got to the point that they cancelled the Zen 3 Threadripper processor so they could sell these processors as EPYC instead. It does need pointing out that Radeon is a distant last in node allocation, which reflects on the fact that older node Radeons are the only ones you will find in healthy supply, not because there is super high demand for newer cards but because AMD simply does not manufacture that many.

The 6900 XT performed well, but it had many caveats against its competition (such as the notoriously inferior media encoder), and even performance-wise it has the same problem of the RTX 4080, its narrow bus and overreliance on the last level cache tends to hurt its performance very badly at high resolutions due to low real memory bandwidth. RT then is out of the question, it performs about the same as the RTX 2080 Ti from a generation prior, which was one of the areas where RTX 3090 made insane strides over the previous generation thanks to it having terabyte-class memory bandwidth. It is still probably the best architecture to come out of AMD in a very long time, but the software, market conditions and gaming trends did not stack favorably towards it.

Let's not forget that this was still a thousand dollar MSRP graphics card. AMD buyers are in massively in the lower midrange segment up to $300, they are the kind of people who resent spending money on superfluous things and fueling the so-called greed.

Neo_MorpheusNope, AMD wont help you get a cheaper Ngreedia GPU.

AMD cant help, that's why.

Sadly for consumers, Blackwell will be another nail in the coffin for high end GPU competition, nvidia will be on top alone.

AMD knows this, they don't even bother trying.

Dr. DroNo, it really was not hard

Not about selling numbers, about how hard they had to push themselves. ;) Yes it was. In RTX 40 series, 1) xx80 isn't big chip anymore, it's kinda small, 2) 4090 is cut down and still easily fastest, completely different story. 3090 was nearly full chip, 3090 Ti was full chip, but mainly faster through stock overclock, which was extra 100-200W (= higher average clocks) depending on workload, basically a 3090 on steroids, just to beat AMD. Not only did Nvidia not bring nearly full chip in xx90 this time, no, they also didn't refresh it with a stronger one, like last time. The 4090 is more comparable to what Titan was in GTX 700 times, than to RTX 20/30 times, clearly cut down, huge vram, expensive. With the difference, this time AMD did not push Nvidia to bring a 780 Ti (or 4090 Ti, which would've been this version). ;) Instead Nvidia sold the full chips as workstation chips for triple price somewhere else.

SimkinAMD knows this, they don't even bother trying.

They are probably gonna return to high end with UDNA though, they are gonna unify server + consumer GPU branches, therefore making it easier for them to compete again, basically, more like what Nvidia does for a long time. The branched way didn't work out for AMD GPU, it makes a lot of things (including software) too complicated to cater for, and too much work / $ for two very different arches. Nvidias is more stream lined, and really, they always were. Big architectural changes with Nvidia are kinda rare. This is one reason why Nvidia driver issues were rare. You barely change anything = the software is easier to maintain. Nvidia mainly bet on improvements instead of overhauls, AMD did a lot of overhauls, they should keep it to a minimum, it's just easier and better for themselves (and really everyone). This will be what AMD will try to do with UDNA.

edited: more info.

Neo_MorpheusNope, AMD wont help you get a cheaper Ngreedia GPU.

Too bad AMD cant help us get better high end GPUs. But I guess they dont want my money anymore.

Vya DomusI wish AMD had the performance crown at least once to show everyone that Nvidia still wouldn't lower their prices by 1 single cent.

They've done it before. The AMD HD 5000s slaughtered Thermi, and AMD pushed near a 50% marketshare for the first time.

Then....they rested on their laurels and rebrandeon'ed their cards, because SURELY Nvidia wouldnt be able to do anything. Que surprised pikachu face when Nvidia fixed Fermi's issues and the GTX 500s came out swinging. There was also Hawaii, which got nvidia to panic launch the GTX 780/ti cards, and lower their expected prices. The 6900/6950xt forced nvidia to push Ampere to its limit.

What AMD really needs is consistency. Polaris was far too limited and AMD severely underestimated the mid to high range space, leading to the GTX 1070 outselling the ENTIRE polaris lineup. oops. Fury/X were dysmal failures, and rDNA having no high end meant, once again, the market swung green.

Dr. DroNo, it really was not hard... back then both companies were pretty much selling any cards that they could manufacture due to Covid and the crypto boom, but you forgot that NV was using the Samsung foundry and had its entire supply to itself, while AMD was pretty much prioritizing the server market as they always do. Most of AMD's silicon supply tends to go to the extremely high margin EPYC business, back then it got to the point that they cancelled the Zen 3 Threadripper processor so they could sell these processors as EPYC instead. It does need pointing out that Radeon is a distant last in node allocation, which reflects on the fact that older node Radeons are the only ones you will find in healthy supply, not because there is super high demand for newer cards but because AMD simply does not manufacture that many.

The 6900 XT performed well, but it had many caveats against its competition (such as the notoriously inferior media encoder), and even performance-wise it has the same problem of the RTX 4080, its narrow bus and overreliance on the last level cache tends to hurt its performance very badly at high resolutions due to low real memory bandwidth. RT then is out of the question, it performs about the same as the RTX 2080 Ti from a generation prior, which was one of the areas where RTX 3090 made insane strides over the previous generation thanks to it having terabyte-class memory bandwidth. It is still probably the best architecture to come out of AMD in a very long time, but the software, market conditions and gaming trends did not stack favorably towards it.

Let's not forget that this was still a thousand dollar MSRP graphics card. AMD buyers are in massively in the lower midrange segment up to $300, they are the kind of people who resent spending money on superfluous things and fueling the so-called greed.

People always do forget this. AMD themselves confirmed back in 2021 that GPUs were de prioritized for EPYC, which was a far higher margin part. TSMC was a huge bottleneck.

People also forget, or refuse to admit, that nvi9dia's prices are not price gouging. Their gross margins simply dont lie, the margin on ada was the same if not worse then ampere. People forget how cheap the Samsung node was, and how much cheaper things were before The Red Lung. Margins only improved with the AI boom, for geforce sales, things are not looking great for Nvidia.

But no, everyone thinks it's 2009 and you can still get a full wafer on cutting edge nodes for $2k while paying workers $1 a day to assemble them while GPU manufacturers desperately try to stay afloat during a great financial crisis, therefore $500 halo chips should still be the norm.

TheinsanegamerNToo bad AMD cant help us get better high end GPUs. But I guess they dont want my money anymore.

AMD can't help when the tech press will recommend Nvidia, no matter what AMD does, not when reviewers list not having DLSS or Nvidia fake frames as a con. Enjoy the monopoly and buy from team green then.

TheinsanegamerNThe AMD HD 5000s slaughtered Thermi

The HD 5000 series was 15 years ago, Nvidia didn't have a locked in ecosystem yet with reviewers cheering for overpriced gpu's.

TheinsanegamerNPeople always do forget this. AMD themselves confirmed back in 2021 that GPUs were de prioritized for EPYC, which was a far higher margin part. TSMC was a huge bottleneck.

People also forget, or refuse to admit, that nvi9dia's prices are not price gouging. Their gross margins simply dont lie, the margin on ada was the same if not worse then ampere. People forget how cheap the Samsung node was, and how much cheaper things were before The Red Lung. Margins only improved with the AI boom, for geforce sales, things are not looking great for Nvidia.

But no, everyone thinks it's 2009 and you can still get a full wafer on cutting edge nodes for $2k while paying workers $1 a day to assemble them while GPU manufacturers desperately try to stay afloat during a great financial crisis, therefore $500 halo chips should still be the norm.

It seems like people also forgot the 4080 12GB fiasco, which was attempt at testing just how much people would pay for what should've been a 4070, they got away with price gouging ever since covid and the mining boom, and now people insist the pricing is fine because most have gotten used to it. The margins Nvidia has on geforce are massive, although its nothing compared to datacenter/AI, the leather jacket man doesn't have to care about geforce unless you're an xx80 or xx90 buyer.
And no I don't expect $500 halo tier GPU's again, but there is no reason why a halo tier card should be over $1000 other than its because Nvidia can.

Oh great, back to stupid naming schemes.

Hecate91AMD can't help when the tech press will recommend Nvidia, no matter what AMD does, not when reviewers list not having DLSS or Nvidia fake frames as a con. Enjoy the monopoly and buy from team green then.

You know this isnt true. When AMD doesnt play stupid games they get praised. But AMD chasing high prices because they want to be a "preeemium" brand without the product to back it up defeats that.

The 7900xtx, 7800xt, 6800xt, ece were all praised and recommended as great price/perf GPUs. Notice those are not cheap either.

Not having DLSS IS a con when it is the dominant tech. AMD could push FSR in the same way and get some marketshare, bu that requires effort, and AMD seems allergic to it.

Hecate91The HD 5000 series was 15 years ago, Nvidia didn't have a locked in ecosystem yet with reviewers cheering for overpriced gpu's.

More total cap. Someone doesnt remember "the way its meant to be played". I also listed more recent examples, including the RX 6000s, just two years ago. But you ignore those, surely for reasons.

Hecate91It seems like people also forgot the 4080 12GB fiasco, which was attempt at testing just how much people would pay for what should've been a 4070, they got away with price gouging ever since the cough heard around the world, and now people insist the pricing is fine because most have gotten used to it. The margins Nvidia has on geforce are massive, although its nothing compared to datacenter/AI, the leather jacket man doesn't have to care about geforce unless you're an xx80 or xx90 buyer.
And no I don't expect $500 halo tier GPU's again, but there is no reason why a halo tier card should be over $1000 other than its because Nvidia can.

Again, we have the accusations of price gouging. care to explain how this gouging exists when nvidia's margins DECLINED from 2021 to 2023?

TheinsanegamerNNot having DLSS IS a con when it is the dominant tech. AMD could push FSR in the same way and get some marketshare, bu that requires effort, and AMD seems allergic to it.

Again with the DLSS superiority… and the AMD laziness… Never gets old!

Only on low/entry resolutions there is maybe some meaningful gap between DLSS and FSR and it’s debatable how meaningful it really is. And the gap has closed even more with FSR3.1.

The only really allergic people are maybe game developers that are so lazy in implementing whatever AMD is offering.
Often doing even bad job when they do “try” to implement it.

EDIT:
typo

'RTX 4090 and 4080, to me, feels like GeForce 7800 GTX all over again. (2005, when Nvidia sold a video card that was too expensive for most people!)

TheinsanegamerNYou know this isnt true. When AMD doesnt play stupid games they get praised. But AMD chasing high prices because they want to be a "preeemium" brand without the product to back it up defeats that.

The 7900xtx, 7800xt, 6800xt, ece were all praised and recommended as great price/perf GPUs. Notice those are not cheap either.

Not having DLSS IS a con when it is the dominant tech. AMD could push FSR in the same way and get some marketshare, bu that requires effort, and AMD seems allergic to it.

More total cap. Someone doesnt remember "the way its meant to be played". I also listed more recent examples, including the RX 6000s, just two years ago. But you ignore those, surely for reasons.

Again, we have the accusations of price gouging. care to explain how this gouging exists when nvidia's margins DECLINED from 2021 to 2023?

Dont expect them to sell at a loss either

Dr. DroThe last time that an AMD graphics card truly shook the market was probably when Polaris came out at $199, some 8 years ago. Nvidia's dominance has been pretty much uncontested since then. Hell, it's like AMD itself gave up trying to cater to their core audience, seeking loftier ambitions that they have ultimately and repeatedly failed to match or achieve.

This old press deck resonates more with the AMD customer base than anything else they have released since

www.slideshare.net/slideshow/radeon-rx-480-press-deck/63678478

I'm hopeful that with this new generation they learned their lesson and return to what made Polaris great. No pretentious BS, no lofty promises - just an unassuming GPU for the average consumer.

So...this is where I think there is a difference. I'm looking at the Nvidia and AMD markets...and their "core" markets seem to be catered to. AMD is both a CPU and GPU manufacturer. Their highest margin business is generally the server market...followed by the higher end GPU market. They prioritized foundry resources to the one that they thought would be the best...and that was chasing after the Epyc business.

I think that the 8000 series is AMD circling the wagons, and trying to offer realistic consumer solution. Per the Steam results, most people aren't pulling a xx80 solution from Nvidia or a x9xx solution from AMD...they are rocking something closer to the xx60 or x7xx level respectively. That's the point where they can move large volumes of cards, differentiate price points by 20-30 USD while still being affordable, and most importantly be both low enough power draw/heat build-up that even mediocre solutions will be viable.

It's weird that looking at this yields the same answer from so many directions, but it lends credence to the difficulty in understanding what a combined GPU/CPU company has to balance in order to succeed. Regarding the 8000 series itself a solid 8700 or 8800 card competing with the 4070/5070, even if based on only a revision of the current tech, is truly something to look forward to. I still buy my video card as a piece of hardware, and despite how people seem to be blind to anything but Nvidia it'd be great to let them lose in the reasonably priced price bracket. I for one learned that buying the highest performance stuff is silly....because it only justifies its existence by virtue of being atop mount something to compensate for, or as a business expense.

Vya DomusI wish AMD had the performance crown at least once to show everyone that Nvidia still wouldn't lower their prices by 1 single cent.

Last time, when AMD had the best GPU for a few months, they were selling those things at inflated prices, then nvidia released their own faster GPU at something like 30% lower price.

Honestly, i dont need to get the best of the best for thousands of dollars. I would really be happy if my 6900xt was replaced with something that would boost the performance of my current card by double and it does not have to be the best. I'm not sure what AMD is planing with the new gen there are a lot of rumors flying around.
I play 4k 144hz so if i get a graphics that would utilize my screen I'd be happy. The price is a doozy for me. I wish to get that graphics for not much the $600. Maybe $500. It would have made me so damn happy and my wife would not hang me on a tree for it while kids watch.
That is what I want and I'd be happy with. RT? don't need that for playing games.