remember the days when eVGA was the little guy and BFG was the big guy? :)

- Christine

Well, guess I'll be switching from evga now, even if it is just 10 days.

VERY good, they often have the cheapest cards

I'm 110% sure EVGA will respond to this lol:roll: 120 days for the epic win=for us too EVGA>bfg and the copycat tactics.

I'm still more impressed with EVGA, I've had bad experiences with BFG, their QC isn't that great and I don't like their support.

Ah..the wonder of competition.

BFG sells its 8800 GTX OC for < $370 at Newegg.com right now. At one point they had the worst pricing.

hmmmm....now do i get anotherv 9600or trade up to the 9800GX2?

Solaris17hmmmm....now do i get anotherv 9600or trade up to the 9800GX2?

Solaris you need a freakin 9800 man! I'd love to see how far you could push it!

haha this is quite funny and sweet. bout time companies start going at each other. hopefully this starts a chain reaction with companies starting to add step up programs, double life time warranty, and etc.

I don't want a double lifetime warranty! I want a new card cheap! :D

DanishDevilI don't want a double lifetime warranty! I want a new card cheap! :D

yeah that too :D come on ati... make another but better video card for nvidia to counter :D

I still don't understand why the upgrade program exists at all.

In my mind a trade up program is kind of like Rent-A-Center. You can get some good stuff there but the total cost of things is so outlandish that IMO it takes advantage of people in a not very nice way. At the same time it supports some folks who can't find a way to save up some money and buy the stuff outright so it supports the whole gotta-have-it-now mentality. I think it's right up there with a payday advance.

Palit_GuyI still don't understand why the upgrade program exists at all.

In my mind a trade up program is kind of like Rent-A-Center. You can get some good stuff there but the total cost of things is so outlandish that IMO it takes advantage of people in a not very nice way. At the same time it supports some folks who can't find a way to save up some money and buy the stuff outright so it supports the whole gotta-have-it-now mentality. I think it's right up there with a payday advance.

Its an investment protection. New video cards are released all the time. 3 months is a long time to wait if your trying to play current games. It allows you a garuntee saying that the card you just bought will not be bested in the next 100 days, and if it is, then you get the the best. Its a fantastic deal-breaker for me. Glad to see BFG doin it (don't get me wrong, you guys do some great things at palit, that latest point thing you got is great).

forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=53258&page=3

I ran through the numbers on what the actual cost would be using the information available on eVGA's website in the above post. I've made similar posts in other forums as well and I always ask the question, "Could anyone share with us the actual costs they experienced from using a trade up program?" but I have yet to have anyone do that.

I've never used a trade up program myself so I don't have a real world story myself. Both eVGA and BFG are competitors so everyone should take what I say with a grain of salt lest I be accused of trying to flame them (which I'm not).

But when I add up all the costs involved in the above example of going from an 8600GT to an 8800GT the consumer winds up paying $68 more then if they just sold the card on ebay or to a friend or something.

I chose those two cards because they are as close as I could get on price which is where the consumer loses the least amount of money in the deal. As the card being upgraded to gets more expensive, the associated cost of the replacement card goes up even more.

So I'm not trying to take a poke at anyone, but I would like to understand exactly what the cost to the consumer is for trading up their card. Ultimately THAT is what determines whether or not a trade up program, IMO, is any good.

I can easily say that if anyone can show me the math on now to make something like this work WITHOUT hosing a consumer Palit will roll that program out within 60 days. But that's just it- we have to have a program that doesn't screw either the consumer or Palit.

farlex85Its an investment protection. New video cards are released all the time. 3 months is a long time to wait if your trying to play current games. It allows you a garuntee saying that the card you just bought will not be bested in the next 100 days, and if it is, then you get the the best. Its a fantastic deal-breaker for me. Glad to see BFG doin it (don't get me wrong, you guys do some great things at palit, that latest point thing you got is great).

True, but you are also paying again to upgrade. Not to mention that a card which comes out within 100 days isn't going to be whole leagues different to the one you already have. Also, if you knew the better card was coming in 3 months, why not just save for it? As the guy above you pointed out, it's preying on the "have it now" mentality.

It's an interesting idea but personally I would never use it. I can only see it appealing to real enthusiasts who always have to have the latest and greatest.

They say you still have to pay taxes right?? well here in denmark where taxes are so high you still would be paying a fortune so its not really worth it

Yes I already went over this with you before, I won't prolong the argument again. It does indeed cost a little extra to do the step-up, no more than it would cost for one to sell their card and buy the new one though.

I think that's where we're disagreeing. I'm saying the trade up program DOES wind up costing the consumer more than just selling their old card and replacing it with a newer one.

The problem I see with this is that it doesn't FEEL like you're paying more but when you do the math you can see the difference in a reasonably substantial way.

If it was just $10-$30 I would be doing this in a heartbeat.

So I'm not trying prolong the argument either since I don't see it as an argument. I really could be wrong and if that's the case I want stop it. I don't like being wrong. I would also want to start this program at Palit.

In order to do that, I have to sit down with an accountant and go over the pricing concerns which means I have to have real examples of how the thing works. When I did the math the first time it didn't work out in the consumer's favor so I quit.

I would be very appreciative if you (or anyone else) can show me where I'm incorrect. I really would like to have a trade up program.

just a thought, but I've always wondered what the manufacturer does with the cards it takes back? I mean, I'm sure most are probably cleaned and re-boxed, or sold "open box", or used for RMAs - but what of the cards that have been "tough-loved"? We all know not everyone handles their hardware the same way . . . but, I've never understood how these kinds of programs are cost effective for the manufacturer, and always been under the impression that they bump retail prices a bit to make up for it.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, though, or explain this a little better.

As of right now, though, I gotta agree with Palit_Guy

Well, the thing is its hard to come up w/ exact numbers, b/c every situation is different. For instance, selling your video card can have wildly different results. An inexperienced seller like myself would probably net maybe $20-30 less from a sale than an experienced sale (hypothetically speaking).

So lets make a hypothetical, lets say I were to buy the 9800gtx today for $350 w/ $7.60 shipping on newegg. So thats $357.60. Now, lets say mid-July the 9900gtx hits, and that new core is a real killer (enough to put the performance 1.5x or so that of my current). Now, lets just say that at that time the price of the 9800gtx drops to $259 (as is the current case w/ the gts 512) and the 9900gtx markets for $400.

Ok, so I have to sell my 9800gtx for less than $250 most likely, as nobody's gonna pay a price for used what they could get new. Lets say I get $240 out of it. So now, to buy the 9900gtx, I have to spend $160 + shipping essientially. However, if I had the step-up, I would pay the $50 difference between my initial card's cost and the new card + shipping, probably around $60.

Now, of course this is all hypothetical, and likely, I wouldn't be able to get $240 out of a card that normally goes for $250 new. So the step-up saved me $100+. Its hard to make accurate judgments about hypotheticals, b/c is often different. But thats my example.

And by the way, thanks for being so open to things like this. It really is good to see a rep knowing where to look and how to please the customer. :)

imperialreignjust a thought, but I've always wondered what the manufacturer does with the cards it takes back? I mean, I'm sure most are probably cleaned and re-boxed, or sold "open box", or used for RMAs - but what of the cards that have been "tough-loved"? We all know not everyone handles their hardware the same way . . . but, I've never understood how these kinds of programs are cost effective for the manufacturer, and always been under the impression that they bump retail prices a bit to make up for it.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, though, or explain this a little better.

As of right now, though, I gotta agree with Palit_Guy

You are absolutely right in what happens to the cards. In the tough love cases, you can typically just replace the heatsink or some stickers and they look fine. My research has shown that the number of cards traded in is very small overall so how to dispense with the cards isn't that big of a deal.

As far as whether it's cost effective, look at it from a marketing point of view because that's really what this activity is all about. The actual number of people that take advantage of a trade up program seems to counted using no more than 4 digits. I can't say specifically what our sales numbers are (no need to get fired) but I can say you need five digits to describe our monthly sales and that number will be going to 6 digits very soon.

So even if it's 5,000 people per year trading up their card it's just a really small number in the grand scheme of things.

So when you have a program that so few people participate in but spend so much time talking about- that's marketing. So if the company loses money on the program over all, they can offset some or all of that loss by taking a pull from the marketing budget.

This also gives me pause for thought because if I have to give up some of my budget to support a trade up program, that is money I can't spend on giving cards away in forums and fun contests. So at some point we have to consider what gets us more exposure and balance that against our conscience and what is fun to do.

Palit_GuyYou are absolutely right in what happens to the cards. In the tough love cases, you can typically just replace the heatsink or some stickers and they look fine. My research has shown that the number of cards traded in is very small overall so how to dispense with the cards isn't that big of a deal.

As far as whether it's cost effective, look at it from a marketing point of view because that's really what this activity is all about. The actual number of people that take advantage of a trade up program seems to counted using no more than 4 digits. I can't say specifically what our sales numbers are (no need to get fired) but I can say you need five digits to describe our monthly sales and that number will be going to 6 digits very soon.

So even if it's 5,000 people per year trading up their card it's just a really small number in the grand scheme of things.

So when you have a program that so few people participate in but spend so much time talking about- that's marketing. So if the company loses money on the program over all, they can offset some or all of that loss by taking a pull from the marketing budget.

This also gives me pause for thought because if I have to give up some of my budget to support a trade up program, that is money I can't spend on giving cards away in forums and fun contests. So at some point we have to consider what gets us more exposure and balance that against our conscience and what is fun to do.

TBH, I prefer the ideas of free give aways and what not a little more, because, as you pointed out, only a small percentage of consumers actually participate in the program - although I think it does work on a marketing scale . . . people see that program and feel that their options are more open, and that the company must care if they're willing to take hardware back and only ask the consumer to pay the difference.

But, then again, your kinda "locked" into that manufacturer's hardware if you do want to further upgrade in the near future - you can't trade one company's stuff in and go and grab another brand, even if they have better specs.

IMHO, I see trade-up programs as being more beneficial for those that only buy into low-end and mid-range products; but for those that like to stick to the 1337-range of cards, I don't see that as being cost effective, and there are also fewer releases in this category as well - meaing one might be pushing their luck hoping the next big thing will be out before your grace period is up.

And its true, it won't benefit everyone, and many won't use it. Its like a warranty, its protection. Not everyone will use their warranty for a particular product, but I don't think many would buy a product without it. Its a form of insurance in this fast moving tech world.

@farlex


Thanks for taking this the right way and not just getting frustrated with me! I've been playing with this in excel again just to make sure of the numbers so it took me a bit. I also looked up all the prices at evga's site, newegg and ebay to make sure I'm using real world numbers.

Just so we're clear, I'm trying to talk me into this, not you out of it.

To make things easier I have rounded up from all $XX.99 prices to a whole number.

Current Newegg price for evga 9800GTX model 872 is $320
evga msrp is $360

Current Newegg price for an evga 9800GX2 is $500
evga msrp is $600

original launch price for evga 9800GTX 872 $350

Ok. So you spend $350 on the GTX (at launch) and now you want to trade up to the GX2. The trade up program looks like $350 + ($600 GX2 msrp - $350 orig purchase price) = $600 total spent.

The ebay method looks like this. You buy the card for $350 (at launch). You sell the card on ebay for $250 (they are currently going for $299 and up) and buy a new evga for $500 giving you a total spent of $350 +$500 -$250 = $600.

If you waited a month to buy your GTX the original purchase price would be $320. That would put your trade up cost at the same $600 but the ebay method would go down to $570. But that's only if you stick with evga. If you were to buy a BFG instead you couldn't use the evga trade up program but the ebay method would put your total spent at $550.

So what we're seeing is a range of about $0 to $50 difference between the two methods. If you do better on ebay the difference gets bigger and if you do worse on ebay the difference gets smaller.

The only other consideration is shipping. In the trade up method you have to pay shipping to you from buying that card to begin with, sending it in and from trading up to the new card but the ebay method you only pay for shipping the cards you buy for two shipping fees.

In my case, the BFG card has free shipping while the evga card costs $7.

So this whole discussion has reminded me what a monumental pain in the ass trying to run a trade up program would be. Just trying to keep track of when people purchased their card is enough to make me throw up.

I'm wondering if there is some way we could offer some kind of Palit loyalty program that would just offer a flat discount of some sort for buying another Palit card when you upgrade.

Something simple like register at our consumer site (under development) and register your card. When you buy a new one we could issue some kind of coupon code or something that would get you a $10 discount on a new card.

@farlex, how would that compare in your mind to a trade up program?