Benetanegia* Nvidia's going to (try to) release the entire lineup in 2-3 months (AMD in ~5-6 depending on when you start counting), that's a lot of chips in a short period and ANY yield problem... They always release with a higher number of cards than AMD.

Ah, AMD doesn't need to "rush" they got a 4 month head start with their Top Shelf part (and took the risk) by being the first 28Nm part. Nvidia better not have production yield issues, AMD already assisted TSMC through all that. Nvidia road the coat-tails all the way, while I ask why aren't Nvidia releasing there Top Shelf offering until very last? Seems odd can't remember the last time they pulled a... best for last? It doesn't instill confidence, if their architecture is/was so easily moved into volume production? :wtf:

BenetanegiaAnd they go AMD in part because they can "bully" them, just as M$ did, because by that time, those chips (Nvidia) had been made obsolete by other GPUs in the PC market.

Ah, there’s the difference AMD graphics especially in the 6670-6770 range are still plenty current to modern performance measures, cost effective, and efficient. *cough440GT-cough*

HTCWouldn't it make more sense to put a 7750 in these instead of a 6670? The price is similar but the performance is way better.

The problem is 28Nm cost increase levied by TSCM, it not near as cost effective due to that. I'd see AMD spinning a slightly enhanced 6670-6770 40Nm (matured process). Plenty of oomph for a console... economical and efficient. Or is there time to have Global Foundries run a 28Nm?

BenetanegiaAMD does not fight over prices as much as Intel, Nvidia, etc.
... aside from the better perf/watt of AMD's VLIW design, in part they are moving to AMD because it's easier for them to work with...

I always enjoy working with folk's like that, we both understand they offer a good product and fair price and can deliver on time as ordered. Nothing worse than a vendor who you give a blanket order with releases (that how that's done in the real world), but then stock piles the parts because they/vendor see's it better for their process and delivery. If we say, need a running change (as would be agreed by any contact) and they say, but we built up all this stock for you... Not my problem!

Benetanegiawhen all 3 consoles are rumored to use mid-range level cards as oposed to high-end chips at the time of release. How much do you think AMD will be making selling HD6600s in 2017?

It's called free flowing Gravy, especially if done at G-F manufacturing in say 2013, the foundry would enjoy the steady work flow. This might have more to do with helping to load G-F than just the steady 5-8 million of free cash infusion a quarter for the next few years. It might be the start to giving TSMC the boot.

I think this speak volumes. :toast:

To speculate NVIDIA might have cheapened out on the design they gave the PS3 as their profit margin for a better card could have been close to non-existent. I also believe NVIDIA didn't fight for a design for the next gen consoles because of this as I'd imagine they are currently a lot more focused on making their profits with Tegra.

Benetanegiaand it will certainly not make a scratch in Nvidia's financials which is what my original point was about.

one big news hit that goes wrong , like 680's going up in smoke or a nvidia cray system needing a refit due to dodgy gpus and nvidias lofty(in your eyes) capital could vanish,

companys are fickle, not that long ago 3dFX were the daddies or Matrox were also up there and where are they now:shadedshu

you know what i too know before ya say it that this isnt going to happen and im glad nvidia will do their thing too, im expecting an APU for desktops at some point and they will still earn i know just ya so damn anti amd soundin

randomTo speculate NVIDIA might have cheapened out on the design they gave the PS3 as their profit margin for a better card could have been close to non-existent. I also believe NVIDIA didn't fight for a design for the next gen consoles because of this as I'd imagine they are currently a lot more focused on making their profits with Tegra.

they can cheapen only in process, the end customer sony M$ etc set the spec in consultation ,but they arent the same as you or i can buy, they have differences and extra features to an off the shelf gpu their hybrids based on pc gpu's

randomThe fact that you are not the CEO of AMD nor NVIDIA

But writes with the arrogance of Jen-Hsun Huang :D

theoneandonlymrkone big news hit that goes wrong , like 680's going up in smoke or a nvidia cray system needing a refit due to dodgy gpus and nvidias lofty(in your eyes) capital could vanish,

Oh, of course it could, and that would mean a failure in their core bussiness, but it would have nothing to do with console contracts. Console sales are pretty much irrelevant to AMD and Nvidia, specially Nvidia who makes much more on Tesla, Quadro and Tegra than AMD will ever do on consoles and that's the point I've been making.

You all can label me fanboy all you want, because I know how the internet works, it only means I said something AMD fanboys don't like to hear (and TPU is full of them), but what I'm saying is the simple truth so I'm really sorry if it hurts your feelings to hear the truth. Gosh, I've even been called fanboy for pointing out that Nvidia has been making 2x as many profits as AMD in the past years, now that's supreme fanboism in denial mode.

EDIT: And BTW not anywhere did I say that Nvidia's financials are lofty or good in any metric other than saying that they have been much better than AMD's. And that's simply a fact.

Some of you talk before they think. AMD isn't that easy-to-bully company from a couple of years back. Just look at what Rory did with the company [results are yet to be seen in 2013/2014]. He makes sure that AMD becomes competitive regarding market share and profitability.
Regarding the consoles, I'm glad that they're all AMD, they deserve it.
And stop talkin' trash about drivers since at least 60% of you don't know how to properly configure one.
edit: 1$ profit per GPU? Weed much?

BenetanegiaOh, of course it could, and that would mean a failure in their core bussiness, but it would have nothing to do with console contracts. Console sales are pretty much irrelevant to AMD and Nvidia, specially Nvidia who makes much more on Tesla, Quadro and Tegra than AMD will ever do on consoles and that's the point I've been making.

You all can label me fanboy all you want, because I know how the internet works, it only means I said something AMD fanboys don't like to hear (and TPU is full of them), but what I'm saying is the simple truth so I'm really sorry if it hurts your feelings to hear the truth. Gosh, I've even been called fanboy for pointing out that Nvidia has been making 2x as many profits as AMD in the past years, now that's supreme fanboism in denial mode.

EDIT: And BTW not anywhere did I say that Nvidia's financials are lofty or good in any metric other than saying that they have been much better than AMD's. And that's simply a fact.

your the guy in an amd themed news thread shouting nvidia are bigger then AMD so....(with little actual point thereafter )

and im eager to see nvidias business retort to this as much as i am eager to see kepler etc i am all amd at the min due to performance features and price convergeing in the right place not because i luv them, im fully aware they are all out for max dollar i go with my nose not any particular name, i soley had nvidia cards for years prior to 3870 xfired


and i Buy new from both at least every other year, how can ya not;)

theoneandonlymrkyour the guy in an amd themed news thread shouting nvidia are bigger then AMD so....(with little actual point thereafter )

So? Read again it was not me saying this was doom and gloom for Nvidia. I only made a statement of reality (that this won't affect Nvidia, nor will make AMD loads of money) and I was told I was wrong and everythng scalated since there. If I'm saying that Nvidia are bigger than AMd is because that's a fact that is being constantly argumented (because it hurts, not because it's false). Period. I don'0t say it because of any other interest but accuracy.

and im eager to see nvidias business retort to this as much as i am eager to see kepler etc i am all amd at the min due to performance features and price convergeing in the right place not because i luv them, im fully aware they are all out for max dollar i go with my nose not any particular name, i soley had nvidia cards for years prior to 3870 xfired

Same here I had many Ati cards and in recent years I only bought 8800GT and GTX460, because I decided to buy every 3 years now (unless more than 2 games really need more which is not the case) and those were by far the best choices at the time I bought them. i.e Gigabyte GTX460 SOC for 160 euros, when HD6850 reference costed 190. Easy choice.

BenetanegiaGigabyte GTX460 SOC for 160 euros, when HD6850 reference costed 190. Easy choice.

that again is an opinion fella, id in that instance have gone for a 6950 but thats me:D

i may have missread some of what we have debated but debated it none the less ( i do like to talk;)) i ment no offence i dont like the overly negative stance some take either and my main point initially was that AMD doing all 3 would be good for us pc gamers:D and it might lead to a harmonious gameing world in which nvidia have to tow the standards line, cuda is a hinderance to a more compatible future imho, id rather both companys purely battled on a performance front with standards dashed about like confetti , that way my games wouldnt need so many effin patches

i hope this time i made myself clear without offence:)

Be crazy if it turned out to be a AMD apu powering the ps4,Xbox3 and the new Wii :eek:

theoneandonlymrkthat again is an opinion fella, id in that instance have gone for a 6950 but thats me:D

It's been a long time since I decided to buy sub 200 euro cards. My intention at first was to buy a replacement every year or going SLI or Crossfire as I required more GPU grunt, but that's not been the case. I rather spend my money on other things.

And I guess opinions can differ but it's not in my book to pay an extra of 30 euros for no performance benefit and inferior cooling.

im starting to think you an nvidia sales rep:p

theoneandonlymrkim starting to think you an nvidia sales rep:p

lol why? If both had been the same price or the 460 wasn't the SOC version it would have been a more difficult decision, but being things like they were... And that was one of the cheapest 460's in Spain, when I bought it. I guess someone made a mistake and effectively the next time I checked, 3-4 months later, the same card costed more than 180 euros so...

Congrats AMD :toast:

Honestly HTC/S3 and PowerVR need to make GPUs for the consoles and computer markets again, Consoles will be one sided but I guess NV isnt bringing anything to the Table anytime soon.

I'm tempted to bet that next gen will run an AMD APU with the GNC arch...perhaps even x86. GPU performance should be just under the HD7750.

The days of expensive consoles are definitely over.

NyteAs an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.

But because I'm an employee, I can't say much else.

Cute.
So, are you saying that because you have pride in the products of your company, or, are you saying it because it feels good to be mysterious?
I'm curious, do you sit in a cubicle or do you have a window with a view of Leslie St or the 407 or staring at another building?

I'm not trying to be malicious, just trying to determine the nature of the comment.

I am not surprised to see this, with this generation of consoles they are going to be looking at 1-2 generation old GPU's. What do we see there? The 5/6xxx series which ran pretty cool and consumed acceptable amounts of power, and Fermi which was rushed, ate power, and heated your whole house. Nvidia has also been pretty douchey when it comes to Console manufacturers, the reason the 360 was out so early was literally because Nvidia shut down manufacturing for the original Xbox's GPU, forcing Microsoft to get their in development console out the doors asap.

As for comparing last-gen consoles, it's important to remember the GPU manufacturers have very little say in what goes into the system. They developed what Sony\Microsoft\Nintendo asked them to. The Playstation 3 was a terrible design from top to bottom, and featured terrible support on the developer side. The Sony Development tools ran like absolute crap for the first couple years, and Sony's stance was that if something didn't work, the Developers themselves had to fix it. Microsoft by comparison worked tirelessly to get their tools updated and were as streamlined and developer friendly as possible.

The Playstation 3 has hard restrictions and huge bottlenecks all over the place, the Nvidia GPU was the least of it's problems. That being said, the Xenos was a phenomenal design. Nvidia is clearly focusing on their mobile products (Tegra) while AMD is playing to their strengths. Should be interesting to see what the next generation of consoles are packing under the hood.

InceptorCute.
So, are you saying that because you have pride in the products of your company, or, are you saying it because it feels good to be mysterious?
I'm curious, do you sit in a cubicle or do you have a window with a view of Leslie St or the 407 or staring at another building?

I'm not trying to be malicious, just trying to determine the nature of the comment.

I'm saying that to stop the rumor train and spread of mis-information. I don't have pride nor reason to be mysterious. I won't say who is wrong nor right but that there is too much mis-information in here that will (and is already) misleading alot of people.

And I work in a cubicle.

Does that answer your questions?

CasecutterThe problem is 28Nm cost increase levied by TSCM, it not near as cost effective due to that. I'd see AMD spinning a slightly enhanced 6670-6770 40Nm (matured process). Plenty of oomph for a console... economical and efficient. Or is there time to have Global Foundries run a 28Nm?

Thanks for the reply, dude!

I guess the deal with IBM isn't just with the APUs, then!

KatanaiNoooooooooooooooooo! :shadedshu That crappy AMD chip in the 360 console is the main thing that holds back graphical advances in games. This is bad news my friends, no matter how you look at it. I was hoping that things will get better somehow but now I'm thinking they will get even worse...

NVIDIA Messed up the XBOX, which is why MS went with ATI for the 360, and which is why it was a powerful, efficient running GPU for its time, not to mention the development of the ring bus within the GPU.

Thank goodness AMD has both contracts for the NEW PS4 & XBOX.

NyteI'm saying that to stop the rumor train and spread of mis-information. I don't have pride nor reason to be mysterious. I won't say who is wrong nor right but that there is too much mis-information in here that will (and is already) misleading alot of people.

Unfortunately, while the motives may seem honorable, by not pointing out the fallacies directly for what they are, there's really little to be gained here for you.

I'm all for more corporate transparency, but of course, when the things you know may give you a competitive edge, you gotta keep your lips zipped.

Mis-information, or whatever, is ALWAYS going to be part of the industry, too. Sometimes it's used simply to detract from the truth, as again, the things you know can be an advantage...and that advantage can lead to millions of dollars.


So misinformation can be useful too. You just gotta know when to draw the line.


Just sayin'.


:rockout:

Super XPNVIDIA Messed up the XBOX, which is why MS went with ATI for the 360, and which is why it was a powerful, efficient running GPU for its time, not to mention the development of the ring bus within the GPU.

Thank goodness AMD has both contracts for the NEW PS4 & XBOX.

Bla! Bla! Bla! Xbox 360 graphics sucks! And it's all aTI, please don't try to bring Nividia into this. And I have to sufer the consequences because the ATI hardware in the Xbox console won't play along otherwise... Yeah! This great chip you're all supporting won't play some titles at 1080p just 720p with half-assed settings and I have to go along with that just because I don't have a choice... And you call this progress?!? I calll it money lanudry!!! If you can't build a proper chip, GTFO of the market!!!...

Yup, the chip that AMD designed back in probably late 2004 can't play all games in 1080p. Gasp.

KatanaiBla! Bla! Bla! Xbox 360 graphics sucks! And it's all aTI, please don't try to bring Nividia into this. And I have to sufer the consequences because the ATI hardware in the Xbox console won't play along otherwise... Yeah! This great chip you're all supporting won't play some titles at 1080p just 720p with half-assed settings and I have to go along with that just because I don't have a choice... And you call this progress?!? I calll it money lanudry!!! If you can't build a proper chip, GTFO of the market!!!...

No offense, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The GPU in the Xbox 360 is very good all things considered, and all things includes the fact it was designed 7-8 years ago. At launch it had features high-end PC GPU's didn't even have yet. Considering it only has access to about 512MB of RAM at any given time, it's not surprising at all that highly detailed textures at high resolutions are problematic, but the same is true of the PS3. In the realm of consoles, the 360 is probably one of the most well engineered consoles to date.