Wednesday, June 28th 2017

AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition Unboxed, Benchmarked

A lucky customer has already gotten his hands on one of these coveted, sky-powered AMD graphics cards, and is currently in the process of setting up his system. Given the absence of review samples from AMD to any outlet - a short Vega Frontier Edition supply ensured so - there isn't any other real way to get impressions on this graphics card. As such, we'll be borrowing Disqus' user #define posts as a way to cover live pics and performance measurements of this card. Expect this post to be updated as new developments arise.

After some glamour shots of the card were taken (which really are justified by its unique color scheme), #define mentioned the card's build quality. After having installed the driver package (which, as we've covered today, includes both a developer and gaming path inside the drivers, granting increased performance in both workloads depending on the enabled driver profile, he is now about to conduct some testing on SPECViewperf and 3DMark, with both gaming and non gaming profiles.
Specs of the system include an Intel Core i7 4790K (apparently at stock 4GHz), an ASUS Maximus VII Impact motherboard, and 16 GB (2x8) of Corsair Vengeance Pro Black DDR3 modules, running at 2133 MHZ, and a 550 W PSU.

Update 1: #define has made an update with a screenshot of the card's score in 3DMark's FireStrike graphics test. The user reported that the Pro drivers' score "didn't make sense", which we assume means are uncooperative with actual gaming workloads. On the Game Mode driver side, though, #define reports GPU frequencies that are "all over the place". This is probably a result of AMD's announced typical/base clock of 1382 MHz and an up to 1600 MHz peak/boost clock. It is as of yet unknown whether these frequencies scale as much with GPU temperature and power constraints as NVIDIA's pascal architecture does, but the fact that #define is using a small case along with the Frontier Edition's blower-style cooler could mean the graphics card is heavily throttling. That would also go some way towards explaining the actual 3DMark score of AMD's latest (non-gaming geared, I must stress) graphics card: a 17,313 point score isn't especially convincing. Other test runs resulted in comparable scores, with 21,202; 21,421; and 22,986 scores. However, do keep in mind these are the launch drivers we're talking about, on a graphics card that isn't officially meant for gaming (at least, not in the sense we are all used to.) It is also unclear whether there are some configuration hoops that #define failed to go through.

Update 2: # After fiddling around with Wattman settings, #Define managed to do some more benchmarks. Operating frequency should be more stable now, but alas, there still isn't much information regarding frequency stability or throttling amount, if any. He reports he had to set Wattman's Power Limit to 30% however; #define also fiddled with the last three power states in a bid to decrease frequency variability on the card, setting all to the 1602 MHz frequency that AMD rated as the peak/boost frequency. Temperature limits were set to their maximum value.
Latest results post this non-gaming Vega card around the same ballpark as a GTX 1080:
For those in the comments going about the Vega Frontier Edition professional performance, I believe the following results will come in as a shock. #define tested the card in Specviewperf with the PRO drivers enabled, and the results... well, speak for themselves.

#define posted some Specviewperf 12.1 results from NVIDIA's Quadro P5000 and P6000 on Xeon machines, below (in source as well):
And then proceeded to test the Vega Frontier Edition, which gave us the following results:

So, this is a Frontier Edition Vega, which isn't neither a professional nor a consumer video card, straddling the line in a prosumer posture of sorts. And as you know, being a jack of all trades usually means that you can't be a master at any of them. So let's look at the value proposition: here we have a prosumer video card which costs $999, battling a $2000 P5000 graphics card. Some of its losses are deep, but it still ekes out some wins. But let's look at the value proposition: averaging results between the Vega Frontier Edition (1014,56 total points) and the Quadro P5000 (1192.23 points), we see the Vega card delivering around 80% of the P5000's performance... for 50% of its price. So if you go with NVIDIA's Quadro P5000, you're trading around a 100% increase in purchase cost, for a 20% performance increase. You tell me if it's worth it. Comparisons to the P6000 are even more ridiculous (though that's usual considering the increase in pricing.) The P6000 averages 1338.49 points versus Vega's 1014,56. So a 25% performance increase from the Quadro P6000 comes with a price tag increased to... wait for it... $4800, which means that a 25% increase in performance will cost you a 380% increase in dollars.

Update 3:

Next up, #define did some quick testing on the Vega Frontier Edition's actual gaming chops, with the gaming fork of the drivers enabled, on The Witcher 3. Refer to the system specs posted above. he ran the game in 1080p, Über mode with Hairworks off. At those settings, the Vega Frontier Edition was posting around 115 frames per second when in open field, and around 100 FPS in city environments. Setting the last three power states to 1602 MHz seems to have stabilized clock speeds.

Update 4:

#define has now run 3D Mark's Time Spy benchmark, which uses a DX12 render path. Even though frequency stability has improved on the Vega Frontier Edition due to the change of the three last power states, the frequency still varies somewhat, though we can't the how much due to the way data is presented in Wattman. That said, the Frontier Edition Vega manages to achieve 7,126 points in the graphics section of the Time Spy benchmark. This is somewhat on the ballpark of stock GTX 1080's, though it still scores a tad lower than most.
Sources: #define @ Disqus, Spec.org, Spec.org
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200 Comments on AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition Unboxed, Benchmarked

#51
PerfectWave
At least we know that the air gpu is clocked at 1600 mhz. maybe it is the cpu that bottleneck the gpu.
Posted on Reply
#52
Nokiron
PerfectWaveAt least we know that the gpu is clocked at 1600 mhz. maybe it is the cpu that bottleneck the gpu.
Not in 3Dmark, and not a 4790K.

What we do know is that the card probably throttles immensly because of thermals (Powerlimit as well?).
Posted on Reply
#53
NGreediaOrAMSlow
NokironAre you really serious? If that card pulls the maximum supposed "300W", he still has 250(!!)W for the CPU and rest of the components.

A system with a 4790K would pull 100W at most.
And I guess you forgot the power supply rating. Which is a two digit number representing the guarantee load. If branded PSU, then should be at least 80. Which means guarantee up to 80% of it's full capacity.

Non branded (generic) PSU are lower than that.

550*.80=440

He has a guarantee load up to 440 Watts. While the power may reach 550, pushing it may have side effects.

Also a K processor. Do you think overclocking it will still consume the same?
Posted on Reply
#54
OSdevr
AenraHe's right guys :)

If the PSU wasn't enough, he/we'd know because the PC would have shut down/potentially damaged itself. It didn't shut down, ergo it sufficed.

(this isn't to say i agree with everything anyone's ever said about today's market and having a 500W PSU [don't], am just commenting on this specific scenario)
I've had personal experience tell me otherwise:

I had a i5-3570K (77w TDP, not overclocked) machine with a 600w Thermaltake PSU that worked well until I added a GTX 660 TI (150w). Everything was fine if a game wasn't graphically demanding but as soon as I played one that was the video would look really... odd and my sound would become scratchy and quickly cut out. I tried reinstalling drivers and such but no luck until I tried a larger power supply. To my great surprise that fixed everything.

EDIT: My system froze shortly after the 'symptoms' started and needed to be rebooted.
Posted on Reply
#55
Nokiron
NGreediaOrAMSlowAnd I guess you forgot the power supply rating. Which is a two digit number representing the guarantee load. If branded PSU, then should be at least 80. Which means guarantee up to 80% of it's full capacity (550W).

Non branded (generic) PSU are lower than that.
No I didnt. Because you are wrong.

The efficiency is calculated from the wall, not internally. A 550W-rated powersupply with 80% efficiency pulls 660W from the wall but still delivers 550W to the components.
OSdevrI've had personal experience tell me otherwise:

I had a i5-3570K (77w TDP, not overclocked) machine with a 600w Thermaltake PSU that worked well until I added a GTX 660 TI (150w). Everything was fine if a game wasn't graphically demanding but as soon as I played one that was the video would look really... odd and my sound would become scratchy and quickly cut out. I tried reinstalling drivers and such but no luck until I tried a larger power supply. To my great surprise that fixed everything.
That's a problem with the individual unit. Not the model.

Stop with the non-issue, seriously. It's not the power supply.
Posted on Reply
#56
Captain_Tom
renz49617k on fire strike? that is 1070 territory?
They showed it off gaming next to a Titan XP, and PCgamer said they were performing almost identically.

That would put it at least 60% stronger than the 1070 even just to be near the 1080 Ti.


Something fishy is going on here...
Posted on Reply
#57
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
P4-630So what is it now!??
LOL!!

Should I buy a PSU with moar watts to get a better 3D Mark score?? :ohwell:
Or no....
No your missing the point.. think of your mod, how well does it perform at 4.2v vs 3.4v? Understand ;)

My 850 I had was hitting over 1100w at the wall.. pictures are here on the site somewhere.. it didn't enjoy that pull and after awhile it just ran like it wasn't sure what to do..
Posted on Reply
#58
pat-roner
KainXSwell he only has a 550W PSU when AMD recommends 850W for this card.(bet 750 would be fine though)
750w are you bonkers?
Posted on Reply
#59
KainXS
PerfectWaveAt least we know that the air gpu is clocked at 1600 mhz. maybe it is the cpu that bottleneck the gpu.
AMD flat out says the peak clock is 1600MHz and the typical is 1382MHz but they never state the base clock. The reference RX 480 was clocked at 1266MHz but you had had to change the power limit so it would not power throttle and change the temp so it would not thermal throttle. So we don't know what clock its at really.
OSdevrI've had personal experience tell me otherwise:

I had a i5-3570K (77w TDP, not overclocked) machine with a 600w Thermaltake PSU that worked well until I added a GTX 660 TI (150w). Everything was fine if a game wasn't graphically demanding but as soon as I played one that was the video would look really... odd and my sound would become scratchy and quickly cut out. I tried reinstalling drivers and such but no luck until I tried a larger power supply. To my great surprise that fixed everything.

EDIT: My system froze shortly after the 'symptoms' started and needed to be rebooted.
That does not sound right, I used my 3770k overclocked with an RX 480@ 1.3V and an 750Ti. Maybe that PSU you had was bad or a cheap PSU.
Posted on Reply
#60
Unregistered
Wasn't even running 1600mhz like it should. If it was running at something like 1400mhz that would mean a 1600mhz score of about 19.5k at least. Besides, we don't know what support's like, we don't know how well rx vega will do and most importantly, firestrike isn't an actual game. Lots of if's, dunno's and a guy doing the benchmarks that doesn't understand wattman. Great, now we still don't know how good rx vega is.
Posted on Edit | Reply
#61
Captain_Tom
Hugh MungusWasn't even running 1600mhz like it should. If it was running at something like 1400mhz that would mean a 1600mhz score of about 19.5k at least. Besides, we don't know what support's like, we don't know how well rx vega will do and most importantly, firestrike isn't an actual game. Lots of if's, dunno's and a guy doing the benchmarks that doesn't understand wattman. Great, now we still don't know how good rx vega is.
Why aren't they using the Ultra 4K Firestrike bench? 1080p is almost completely irrelevant in GPU's this expensive.
Posted on Reply
#64
okidna
Looking good for AMD If the promises that "RX Vega will actually be faster than Frontier version" is turned out to be true.
NGreediaOrAMSlowAnd I guess you forgot the power supply rating. Which is a two digit number representing the guarantee load. If branded PSU, then should be at least 80. Which means guarantee up to 80% of it's full capacity.

Non branded (generic) PSU are lower than that.

550*.80=440
Oh wow....

That's NOT what efficiency rating mean. To put it simple : Efficiency = (output power / input power)

More explanation : efficiency is a ratio between the output power (DC power generated by PSU) divided by input power (AC power needed by the PSU from electricity socket). The number will never be 1 (or 100%) because there's always certain amount of power lost during the AC to DC conversion. The higher the efficiency rating = less AC power consumed from the socket, and vice versa.

Simple example : you have a 550W, 85% rated efficiency (all load level for easy example) PSU, and your PC uses 350W of DC power. So, you actually use = (350W / 85%) = 411.76W of AC power from the socket. And when your PC actually uses 550W of DC power, you will pull 647W of AC power from the socket.
Posted on Reply
#65
Supercrit
9700 ProIMO that looks damn stupid! :D
I think I'm like a bird or something, I love shiny transparent things like gems etc.
NGreediaOrAMSlowAnd I guess you forgot the power supply rating. Which is a two digit number representing the guarantee load. If branded PSU, then should be at least 80. Which means guarantee up to 80% of it's full capacity.

Non branded (generic) PSU are lower than that.

550*.80=440

He has a guarantee load up to 440 Watts. While the power may reach 550, pushing it may have side effects.

Also a K processor. Do you think overclocking it will still consume the same?
It's the other way around, if the PSU manufacturer is not a dirty liar. 550w PSU should be able to output this amount to the components while pulling 550/0.8=687.5 from the wall.
Posted on Reply
#66
uuuaaaaaa
MilesMetalDo you have a link to the Disqus article?

Thanks,
Miles.
It's the wccftech comment section on an article.
Posted on Reply
#67
Ruru
S.T.A.R.S.
Well, a new product and drivers are probably far from "ready" yet..
Posted on Reply
#68
xkm1948
In case people forgot, this is the leaked version of VEGA running at 1200MHz core




Pay attention to the graphic score, 17801. I plot a little chart using all the data points available. It looks like a pretty good linear regression line to me.


When I have time tonight I will do a series of frequency vs GPU score plot for my FuryX.

Posted on Reply
#69
EarthDog
If one extrapolates data from extrapolated data to form another extrapolated data point, how can we go wrong????????????????
Posted on Reply
#70
OSdevr
KainXSThat does not sound right, I used my 3770k overclocked with an RX 480@ 1.3V and an 750Ti. Maybe that PSU you had was bad or a cheap PSU.
I just cracked it open to see if anything was amiss. Hardly a thorough examination, but no signs of damage. I suppose if there was it wouldn't be working at all though.

Either way, it looks like a GPU can act strangely without sufficient power and not immediately crash the system.
Posted on Reply
#71
EarthDog
NGreediaOrAMSlowAnd I guess you forgot the power supply rating. Which is a two digit number representing the guarantee load. If branded PSU, then should be at least 80. Which means guarantee up to 80% of it's full capacity.

Non branded (generic) PSU are lower than that.

550*.80=440

He has a guarantee load up to 440 Watts. While the power may reach 550, pushing it may have side effects.

Also a K processor. Do you think overclocking it will still consume the same?
Sir... that is NOT how it works... the efficiency rating is how much power the PSU is pulling FROM THE WALL. It DOES NOT take away from the label rating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, if I was pulling an actual 500W load on a 90% efficient PSU, I would be pulling 550W FROM THE WALL.

Does that help clear things up????
TheinsanegamerNPascall GPUs will power throttle (IE run lower/disabled boost) if not fed enough juice. It's entirely possible that vega has the same ability.
They do (NVIDA GPUs....or Vega...........or are we hoping something sticks??) Have any links to this? It is something I never heard of before...
OSdevrEither way, it looks like a GPU can act strangely without sufficient power and not immediately crash the system.
Or, just keep on thinking that is going to happen... :)


Let's get our heads out of our...err, the sand, can we? :)
Posted on Reply
#72
KainXS
OSdevrI just cracked it open to see if anything was amiss. Hardly a thorough examination, but no signs of damage. I suppose if there was it wouldn't be working at all though.

Either way, it looks like a GPU can act strangely without sufficient power and not immediately crash the system.
Normally when a GPU does not get enough power from the PSU it crashes the system or cuts off from its protection but with that system and 600W PSU, the PSU must have been bad or cheaply made. Even with this Vega card, a 550W PSU is not what I would recommend but if his PSU is a quality one(RM550 or something) it should run and the PSU should not be the limiting factor here. Thermaltake years ago made some really shifty PSU's on their low end, maybe that was your problem.
Posted on Reply
#73
R-T-B
fullinfusionDon't kid yourself, I had a Corsair 850 psu and a pair of 7970's and it ran the benches.. well it completed them but the numbers were low. The psu was old and after installing a new psu the numbers went up ;)
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty skeptical that that's what's going on here, or even was in your case. Low voltages / under delivered power don't cause low benchmarks, they cause instabilities, crashes, or even hardware damage. Most likely outcome of overloading a PSU is actually a hard shutdown, as it won't "not get enough juice." PSU's are a pull technology, they will attempt to deliver the requested wattage, or if built well, shutdown when unable. Whether they do it with acceptable ripple or without an electrical fire is another matter.
Posted on Reply
#74
Unregistered
xkm1948In case people forgot, this is the leaked version of VEGA running at 1200MHz core




Pay attention to the graphic score, 17801. I plot a little chart using all the data points available. It looks like a pretty good linear regression line to me.


When I have time tonight I will do a series of frequency vs GPU score plot for my FuryX.

Still a 1080 score (just look at the graphics) in a dx11 synthetic bench with a dx12 optimized card with workstation optimizations as well! Not exactly representative of rx vega and the drivers will get some improvements, but it's still a decent score and a pretty good card for a gaming prosumer. New benches soon apparently and we should get a few more professional reviews once reviewers get their cards, which they had to buy with their own money.
Posted on Edit | Reply
#75
dwade
So Vega is looking to compete against the upcoming GTX 2060... maybe even GTX 2050 if Nvidia is generous.
Posted on Reply
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