Wednesday, June 28th 2017

AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition Unboxed, Benchmarked

A lucky customer has already gotten his hands on one of these coveted, sky-powered AMD graphics cards, and is currently in the process of setting up his system. Given the absence of review samples from AMD to any outlet - a short Vega Frontier Edition supply ensured so - there isn't any other real way to get impressions on this graphics card. As such, we'll be borrowing Disqus' user #define posts as a way to cover live pics and performance measurements of this card. Expect this post to be updated as new developments arise.

After some glamour shots of the card were taken (which really are justified by its unique color scheme), #define mentioned the card's build quality. After having installed the driver package (which, as we've covered today, includes both a developer and gaming path inside the drivers, granting increased performance in both workloads depending on the enabled driver profile, he is now about to conduct some testing on SPECViewperf and 3DMark, with both gaming and non gaming profiles.
Specs of the system include an Intel Core i7 4790K (apparently at stock 4GHz), an ASUS Maximus VII Impact motherboard, and 16 GB (2x8) of Corsair Vengeance Pro Black DDR3 modules, running at 2133 MHZ, and a 550 W PSU.

Update 1: #define has made an update with a screenshot of the card's score in 3DMark's FireStrike graphics test. The user reported that the Pro drivers' score "didn't make sense", which we assume means are uncooperative with actual gaming workloads. On the Game Mode driver side, though, #define reports GPU frequencies that are "all over the place". This is probably a result of AMD's announced typical/base clock of 1382 MHz and an up to 1600 MHz peak/boost clock. It is as of yet unknown whether these frequencies scale as much with GPU temperature and power constraints as NVIDIA's pascal architecture does, but the fact that #define is using a small case along with the Frontier Edition's blower-style cooler could mean the graphics card is heavily throttling. That would also go some way towards explaining the actual 3DMark score of AMD's latest (non-gaming geared, I must stress) graphics card: a 17,313 point score isn't especially convincing. Other test runs resulted in comparable scores, with 21,202; 21,421; and 22,986 scores. However, do keep in mind these are the launch drivers we're talking about, on a graphics card that isn't officially meant for gaming (at least, not in the sense we are all used to.) It is also unclear whether there are some configuration hoops that #define failed to go through.

Update 2: # After fiddling around with Wattman settings, #Define managed to do some more benchmarks. Operating frequency should be more stable now, but alas, there still isn't much information regarding frequency stability or throttling amount, if any. He reports he had to set Wattman's Power Limit to 30% however; #define also fiddled with the last three power states in a bid to decrease frequency variability on the card, setting all to the 1602 MHz frequency that AMD rated as the peak/boost frequency. Temperature limits were set to their maximum value.
Latest results post this non-gaming Vega card around the same ballpark as a GTX 1080:
For those in the comments going about the Vega Frontier Edition professional performance, I believe the following results will come in as a shock. #define tested the card in Specviewperf with the PRO drivers enabled, and the results... well, speak for themselves.

#define posted some Specviewperf 12.1 results from NVIDIA's Quadro P5000 and P6000 on Xeon machines, below (in source as well):
And then proceeded to test the Vega Frontier Edition, which gave us the following results:

So, this is a Frontier Edition Vega, which isn't neither a professional nor a consumer video card, straddling the line in a prosumer posture of sorts. And as you know, being a jack of all trades usually means that you can't be a master at any of them. So let's look at the value proposition: here we have a prosumer video card which costs $999, battling a $2000 P5000 graphics card. Some of its losses are deep, but it still ekes out some wins. But let's look at the value proposition: averaging results between the Vega Frontier Edition (1014,56 total points) and the Quadro P5000 (1192.23 points), we see the Vega card delivering around 80% of the P5000's performance... for 50% of its price. So if you go with NVIDIA's Quadro P5000, you're trading around a 100% increase in purchase cost, for a 20% performance increase. You tell me if it's worth it. Comparisons to the P6000 are even more ridiculous (though that's usual considering the increase in pricing.) The P6000 averages 1338.49 points versus Vega's 1014,56. So a 25% performance increase from the Quadro P6000 comes with a price tag increased to... wait for it... $4800, which means that a 25% increase in performance will cost you a 380% increase in dollars.

Update 3:

Next up, #define did some quick testing on the Vega Frontier Edition's actual gaming chops, with the gaming fork of the drivers enabled, on The Witcher 3. Refer to the system specs posted above. he ran the game in 1080p, Über mode with Hairworks off. At those settings, the Vega Frontier Edition was posting around 115 frames per second when in open field, and around 100 FPS in city environments. Setting the last three power states to 1602 MHz seems to have stabilized clock speeds.

Update 4:

#define has now run 3D Mark's Time Spy benchmark, which uses a DX12 render path. Even though frequency stability has improved on the Vega Frontier Edition due to the change of the three last power states, the frequency still varies somewhat, though we can't the how much due to the way data is presented in Wattman. That said, the Frontier Edition Vega manages to achieve 7,126 points in the graphics section of the Time Spy benchmark. This is somewhat on the ballpark of stock GTX 1080's, though it still scores a tad lower than most.
Sources: #define @ Disqus, Spec.org, Spec.org
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200 Comments on AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition Unboxed, Benchmarked

#176
EarthDog
The longer the thread, the less clue seems to populate it...
Posted on Reply
#177
xkm1948
EarthDogThe longer the thread, the less clue seems to populate it...
I have given up discussion in this thread already. Mosylt people already have their own version of Vega image established in their head. We are not here looking for different arguments for the sake of facts. Most of us are here looking for echo chambers to justify our own beliefs.
Posted on Reply
#178
Prima.Vera
This starts to look more and more like the 3DFx Voodoo5 5500 story. Now AMD on the same position.
Is funny that people are still not learning from past mistakes...
Posted on Reply
#179
phanbuey
looks close to stock 1080 performance in dx12 - that timespy score is good.
Posted on Reply
#180
iO
The driver might run in some kind of fallback mode as it doesnt look like any of the architectual advancements work at all and it performs 30-40% faster than a Fury which conspicuously lines up with the higher clocks...
Posted on Reply
#182
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
Unsubbed. I'll wait for RX release. Until then it's just more arguments based on speculation.
Posted on Reply
#183
mat9v
How is 7120p in the ballpark of stock 1080.
Look for 4790k (his CPU) and 1080 in TimeSpy results. His score corresponds most closely to 4790K@4Ghz and 1080@1850-2000Mhz
Posted on Reply
#184
efikkan
Aaah, the AMD product cycle strikes again:
"It's going to be the best thing ever" -> denial -> "it's actually better, you just don't see it because of missing optimizations."
So we are moving into phase two…
qubitMaybe in another couple of generations AMD will catch up, but I'm not holding my breath.
They are not catching up, they are falling behind, so until Nvidia slows down they wouldn't.
Vega was supposed to compete with Pascal, but Pascal is nearing the end of it's life cycle before it even arrives (so AMD is >~0.6 cycles behind). Next year Nvidia will launch consumer Volta, while AMD's counterpart Navi is slipping into 2019…
Posted on Reply
#185
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
efikkanAaah, the AMD product cycle strikes again:
"It's going to be the best thing ever" -> denial -> "it's actually better, you just don't see it because of missing optimizations."
So we are moving into phase two…


They are not catching up, they are falling behind, so until Nvidia slows down they wouldn't.
Vega was supposed to compete with Pascal, but Pascal is nearing the end of it's life cycle before it even arrives (so AMD is >~0.6 cycles behind). Next year Nvidia will launch consumer Volta, while AMD's counterpart Navi is slipping into 2019…
Yeah that sounds about right, I was just trying to be optimistic. :ohwell:

I don't get why some people end up trying to defend a big, for-profit company that's letting everyone down with substandard products and dodgy hype (eg Vega FE v Titan Xp) by flaming us with incoherent rants instead of flaming AMD. It's just weird. :kookoo:

Some seem to think it's up to us to buy their products regardless to help fund their R&D for better products. That's pretty flawed thinking, because if AMD made lots of money by selling worse products, then they don't have any motivation to spend their profits on R&D for making better products. Worse, the competition will see this and might wonder why they're spending so much money, time and effort into better products when they don't need to in order to make a decent profit. This could potentially start a trend for race to the bottom. So no, don't buy AMD's products to "help fund R&D", because it won't work and you'll have wasted your money on inferior products.
Posted on Reply
#186
xkm1948
qubitYeah that sounds about right, I was just trying to be optimistic. :ohwell:

I don't get why some people end up trying to defend a big, for-profit company that's letting everyone down with substandard products and dodgy hype (eg Vega FE v Titan Xp) by flaming us with incoherent rants instead of flaming AMD. It's just weird. :kookoo:

Some seem to think it's up to us to buy their products regardless to help fund their R&D for better products. That's pretty flawed thinking, because if AMD made lots of money by selling worse products, then they don't have any motivation to spend their profits on R&D for making better products. Worse, the competition will see this and might wonder why they're spending so much money, time and effort into better products when they don't need to in order to make a decent profit. This could potentially start a trend for race to the bottom. So no, don't buy AMD's products to "help fund R&D", because it won't work and you'll have wasted your money on inferior products.
The denial from emotionally invested people is strong. I fully understand. Once someone is emotionally invested in something they feel the obligation to defend it no matter what that thing actually is. The discussion is already useless here. People have resorted to personal attacks, which is one of the lowest form of arguing, starting from the first several pages.

We are all fully grown ass adults. So basically the chance of one persuading another to abandon his/her stance on the matter is quite slim.

AMD is charging $999 for their card, someone bought it and tested it, he posted the results. End of story. Annnd unsubscribed as well. Nothing useful is coming out of this thread now(for me).
Posted on Reply
#187
Th3pwn3r
Good
xkm1948The denial from emotionally invested people is strong. I fully understand. Once someone is emotionally invested in something they feel the obligation to defend it no matter what that thing actually is. The discussion is already useless here. People have resorted to personal attacks, which is one of the lowest form of arguing, starting from the first several pages.

We are all fully grown ass adults. So basically the chance of one persuading another to abandon his/her stance on the matter is quite slim.

AMD is charging $999 for their card, someone bought it and tested it, he posted the results. End of story. Annnd unsubscribed as well. Nothing useful is coming out of this thread now(for me).
Good riddance, you are biased like most others anyways. No need for your input anyhow.
Posted on Reply
#188
erocker
*
Prima.VeraThis starts to look more and more like the 3DFx Voodoo5 5500 story. Now AMD on the same position.
Is funny that people are still not learning from past mistakes...
I don't see Nvidia buying AMD and making them disappear like what happened after that card came out.
Posted on Reply
#189
S@LEM!
you had only one job..

**** you Raja Koduri!
Posted on Reply
#190
KainXS
Thread went down the toilet
Posted on Reply
#191
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
:laugh:, Yup all the hatred and Bias
KainXSThread went down the toilet
Posted on Reply
#192
DeathtoGnomes
EarthDogThe longer the thread, the less clue seems to populate it...
yep called it...
Posted on Reply
#193
fullinfusion
Vanguard Beta Tester
R-T-BI'm sorry, but I'm pretty skeptical that that's what's going on here, or even was in your case. Low voltages / under delivered power don't cause low benchmarks, they cause instabilities, crashes, or even hardware damage. Most likely outcome of overloading a PSU is actually a hard shutdown, as it won't "not get enough juice." PSU's are a pull technology, they will attempt to deliver the requested wattage, or if built well, shutdown when unable. Whether they do it with acceptable ripple or without an electrical fire is another matter.
Here check this out , it kinda validates my problem to a point..o_O

Posted on Reply
#194
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
fullinfusionHere check this out , it kinda validates my problem to a point..o_O

Seen others swap them to resolve issues, especially when defective from brand new
Posted on Reply
#195
Arjai
I don't have clue about any of this. AND, I just read thru 8 pages of this thread.

Somehow, I learned nothing about these cards. But, I did learn some things about the cards in this thread.

Not real happy about either.

:(
Posted on Reply
#196
Th3pwn3r
eidairaman1Seen others swap them to resolve issues, especially when defective from brand new
I really don't think that's the 'problem' here.

Expectations are the problem. Some just don't understand what this card is supposed to do for one...
Posted on Reply
#197
TheGuruStud
It is using barely modified Fiji drivers from January lol (package is new but same 'ol drivers). The novideo fans are squirming.
Posted on Reply
#199
EarthDog
fullinfusionHere check this out , it kinda validates my problem to a point..o_O

So, a difference of 1%(by score - less than 1% in FPS) in one test? That could have been just from rebooting. I'd like to see a lot more testing, but, from what i know, its simply off or on. it gets enough voltage and it works or doesn't and craps out.
Posted on Reply
#200
OSdevr
Why did this thread get resurrected?
Posted on Reply
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