Max(IT)how can someone want to spend a lot of money on an AM4 board in 2021 ?
there are quite a lot of very good <$200 B550 motherboard on the market.

If someone needs access to more than 1 Pcie 4.0 drive you have to go X570.

But I agree its late in the cycle now to go AM4.

MysteoaThe amount of people just commenting "fan is bad" without understanding the need of it is astonishing. The fan was only necessary for when you were running PCIEX4 SSD in a long transfer scenario. In all other cases is probably off.

Tell that to my ASUS X570 TUF. Nothing connected to the chipset (beyond USB devices. Not even audio. I suppose the CPU is connected. I don't have any PCIe 4.0 devices beyond the CPU itself and chipset, though).

Yet that chipset fan is easily the noisiest single component in my PC, and it's always on, always >2000 RPM. Sure, it's drowned out by the refrigerator...

That being said, given what ASUS has said about updated AGESA being responsible, hopefully that updated AGESA can be brought to my X570 TUF to gain a bit of silence.

Legacy-ZAFinally, got the memo? Anyone old enough will tell you, a chipset fan, is one of the worst things to have on a motherboard.

I agree but I can't hear mine on the Taichi at all, I know it works but I can't hear it.. But I am deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

jeremyshawTell that to my ASUS X570 TUF. Nothing connected to the chipset (beyond USB devices. Not even audio. I suppose the CPU is connected. I don't have any PCIe 4.0 devices beyond the CPU itself and chipset, though).

Yet that chipset fan is easily the noisiest single component in my PC, and it's always on, always >2000 RPM. Sure, it's drowned out by the refrigerator...

That being said, given what ASUS has said about updated AGESA being responsible, hopefully that updated AGESA can be brought to my X570 TUF to gain a bit of silence.

I can't say the same, my chipset fan is at 1800 RPM and I cant hear it all. That being said, I would appreciate it if my Chipset would run lower than 59C

I was waiting until they came out with something like this before moving to X570. I realize things have changed drastically over the years, but back in the day when chipset fans were the norm, holy f**kballs, were they a pain in the butt. They were almost always the first fans to crap out, and right quick as well. Granted, I don't know how the fans on the first round of X570 boards were, they may have been perfectly fine. But I just didn't want to be that lucky one that one the crap lottery. I figured they wouldn't be long in coming out with a fanless setup, and in the meantime my X470 has been absolutely fine, so I was holding off even though I really did kind of want to move to it.

HQi88I can't say the same, my chipset fan is at 1800 RPM and I cant hear it all. That being said, I would appreciate it if my Chipset would run lower than 59C

Depending on your setup (and if it even matters - your PC may be drowned out by other noise sources or insulation), I'd advise checking again. I was blaming my GPU and case fans, until I removed all of them recently (cleanout, as I downgrade back to my old GTX970). I then found the main noisemaker in my PC was my X570 chipset fan. Never would have imagined that, since I didn't remember the chipset fan being so noisy when I first got my X570 TUF back in 2019. Maybe it got noisier after being choked by my GPU, who knows?

I should note, it's not annoyingly noisy, just noisy enough to be be always heard and noticed.

jeremyshawTell that to my ASUS X570 TUF. Nothing connected to the chipset (beyond USB devices. Not even audio. I suppose the CPU is connected. I don't have any PCIe 4.0 devices beyond the CPU itself and chipset, though).

Yet that chipset fan is easily the noisiest single component in my PC, and it's always on, always >2000 RPM. Sure, it's drowned out by the refrigerator...

That being said, given what ASUS has said about updated AGESA being responsible, hopefully that updated AGESA can be brought to my X570 TUF to gain a bit of silence.

I spent a few hours trawling reddit for this issue, the TUF x570 is a flop - its got the worst fan noise of all the x570 boards, and is not indicative of x570 as a whole

MusselsI spent a few hours trawling reddit for this issue, the TUF x570 is a flop - its got the worst fan noise of all the x570 boards, and is not indicative of x570 as a whole

Any comparative sources gleaned from your trawling? Either way, the TUF X570 isn't some niche board sold in the backalleys of a black market.

jeremyshawAny comparative sources gleaned from your trawling? Either way, the TUF X570 isn't some niche board sold in the backalleys of a black market.

just lots of users complaining of the same thing - i searched for x570 fan noise and the TUF came up over and over and over - other boards mentioned when researched like the giga boards, had BIOS fixes that slowed the fans - but the TUF never got that fix

weak heatsink or something? my x570-F is silent

MakaveliIf someone needs access to more than 1 Pcie 4.0 drive you have to go X570.

But I agree its late in the cycle now to go AM4.

No no don’t get me wrong.
it is not late to go AM4 now: 5900X and 5950X still are beasts, 5800X prices are making more sense and 5600X is a very good gaming cpu.
I just wouldn’t spend too much on the motherboard because it won’t support any other future CPU (most probably).

you are right about the 2 PCIE 4.0 slots, but I think that 1x4.0 and 1 or 2x3.0 is enough even for the most intensive task today.

Max(IT)No no don’t get me wrong.
it is not late to go AM4 now: 5900X and 5950X still are beasts, 5800X prices are making more sense and 5600X is a very good gaming cpu.
I just wouldn’t spend too much on the motherboard because it won’t support any other future CPU (most probably).

you are right about the 2 PCIE 4.0 slots, but I think that 1x4.0 and 1 or 2x3.0 is enough even for the most intensive task today.

Arguably having only one PCIe 4.0 slot by itself (like B550) is completely pointless, because what are you going to do with just one drive? Nothing to read to/write from can keep up, so it'll run at PCIe 3.0 speeds anyway bottlenecked by the source or destination bandwidth.

Copying files to itself is going to be much slower, too - so even that is unlikely to benefit from PCIe 4.0 and saving/loading to RAM is unlikely to benefit as the only way you'll need more than the 3.5GB/s of PCIe 3.0 is with a raw sequential file copy. Other operations are limited by IOPS or CPU (de)compression speeds or whatever.

Perhaps when SSDs can hit over 3.5GB/s on small files and non-sequential throughput there'll be merit to a single PCIe 4.0 storage interface but at the moment its sole real purpose is going to be DirectStorage/RTX IO - which won't see the light of day for a while, possibly not until after B550 is replaced with the next-gen DDR5 variant....

Chrispy_Arguably having only one PCIe 4.0 slot by itself (like B550) is completely pointless, because what are you going to do with just one drive? Nothing to read to/write from can keep up, so it'll run at PCIe 3.0 speeds anyway bottlenecked by the source or destination bandwidth.

Copying files to itself is going to be much slower, too - so even that is unlikely to benefit from PCIe 4.0 and saving/loading to RAM is unlikely to benefit as the only way you'll need more than the 3.5GB/s of PCIe 3.0 is with a raw sequential file copy. Other operations are limited by IOPS or CPU (de)compression speeds or whatever.

Perhaps when SSDs can hit over 3.5GB/s on small files and non-sequential throughput there'll be merit to a single PCIe 4.0 storage interface but at the moment its sole real purpose is going to be DirectStorage/RTX IO - which won't see the light of day for a while, possibly not until after B550 is replaced with the next-gen DDR5 variant....

I think that as of today almost everyone can live with PCIE 3.0 speed ”bottleneck“ :p

Chrispy_Arguably having only one PCIe 4.0 slot by itself (like B550) is completely pointless, because what are you going to do with just one drive? Nothing to read to/write from can keep up, so it'll run at PCIe 3.0 speeds anyway bottlenecked by the source or destination bandwidth.

Copying files to itself is going to be much slower, too - so even that is unlikely to benefit from PCIe 4.0 and saving/loading to RAM is unlikely to benefit as the only way you'll need more than the 3.5GB/s of PCIe 3.0 is with a raw sequential file copy. Other operations are limited by IOPS or CPU (de)compression speeds or whatever.

Perhaps when SSDs can hit over 3.5GB/s on small files and non-sequential throughput there'll be merit to a single PCIe 4.0 storage interface but at the moment its sole real purpose is going to be DirectStorage/RTX IO - which won't see the light of day for a while, possibly not until after B550 is replaced with the next-gen DDR5 variant....

Just one fast drive is the ideal thing for everyone... EVERY task you do is faster.

Oh no its slower if you copy files to your secondary drive.... yeah but.... who does that and needs 7GB/s?
People want games and programs to load faster, video editing to complete faster, games and windows to update and patch faster.... and one single fast drive can do all that, for all types of users


You just throw lower priority stuff on your other drive(s) like people have been doing since SSD's came out, or are you saying that back when SSDs were new, they were useless because you could only have one?

MusselsJust one fast drive is the ideal thing for everyone... EVERY task you do is faster.

Oh no its slower if you copy files to your secondary drive.... yeah but.... who does that and needs 7GB/s?
People want games and programs to load faster, video editing to complete faster, games and windows to update and patch faster.... and one single fast drive can do all that, for all types of users


You just throw lower priority stuff on your other drive(s) like people have been doing since SSD's came out, or are you saying that back when SSDs were new, they were useless because you could only have one?

Hi,
For all that to be true os/ programs/ games/ video projects/... would all have to be on the same pci-e 4 ssd
That is not how most people use ssd's it also makes system images very large as well.

It's commonly suggested to keep the os and maybe programs on one ssd and games on separate ssd and personal files on yet another so if something happens to the os drive "updates wise, very common crapout".... your personal files/ Games/ projects are unaffected and can be reattached after a repair or reinstall/....

ThrashZoneHi,
For all that to be true os/ programs/ games/ video projects/... would all have to be on the same pci-e 4 ssd
That is not how most people use ssd's it also makes system images very large as well.

It's commonly suggested to keep the os and maybe programs on one ssd and games on separate ssd and personal files on yet another so if something happens to the os drive "updates wise, very common crapout".... your personal files/ Games/ projects are unaffected and can be reattached after a repair or reinstall/....

Personally I'm using one fast NVMe SSD (Samsung 970 EVO) for Windows and some "priority applications", and a SATA SSD 2 Tb (Crucial MX500) for everything else.
To be honest I don't think that a dual PCIE 4.0 disk would improve my user experience at all, even if sometimes I'm editing/moving quite large 4K videos.

ThrashZoneHi,
For all that to be true os/ programs/ games/ video projects/... would all have to be on the same pci-e 4 ssd
That is not how most people use ssd's it also makes system images very large as well.

It's commonly suggested to keep the os and maybe programs on one ssd and games on separate ssd and personal files on yet another so if something happens to the os drive "updates wise, very common crapout".... your personal files/ Games/ projects are unaffected and can be reattached after a repair or reinstall/....

almost every system runs a single drive, very few run multiple

power users with multiple drives are a niche

Musselsalmost every system runs a single drive, very few run multiple

power users with multiple drives are a niche

3 PCs in my house, for me and my two sons, none of them runs a single drive :D
i must be a power user :pimp:

Max(IT)3 PCs in my house, for me and my two sons, none of them runs a single drive :D
i must be a power user :pimp:

the fact you have 3 PC's kinda answers that one

Why no mobo manufacturer puts REAL heatsinks on chipsets/VRMs instead of the crappy single block of aluminium with maybe a couple of fins machined on it? Just for aesthetic reasons?

MusselsJust one fast drive is the ideal thing for everyone... EVERY task you do is faster.

Oh no its slower if you copy files to your secondary drive.... yeah but.... who does that and needs 7GB/s?
People want games and programs to load faster, video editing to complete faster, games and windows to update and patch faster.... and one single fast drive can do all that, for all types of users


You just throw lower priority stuff on your other drive(s) like people have been doing since SSD's came out, or are you saying that back when SSDs were new, they were useless because you could only have one?

Whilst that's true, current-gen PCIe 4.0 drives and CPUs aren't actually fast enough to achieve PCIe 4.0 speeds when using them for tasks and as an OS drive.

The point I'm making is that the controllers, CPU, OS scheduler, other storage overheads mean that you never see gen 4 speeds when using it as a single drive. Almost everything is compressed these days and has a CPU/RAM/OS overhead. I'm not even including encryption or realtime AV/Malware scanning which is often enabled for consumers. Even if you're working with large files and reading/writing them to the drive on a regular basis, there's far more at play than the storage bandwidth - you can have perfmon open with your SSD, run some read/write heavy workloads and you'll rarely get speeds beyond PCIe 3.0 x2, if ever. In a PCIe 3.0 system, with a fast gen3 drive, the storage bandwidth is no longer the biggest bottleneck - that burden rests mostly on CPU/OS scheduler for anything outside of non-windows proprietary datacenter/compute nodes.

The only way to see PCIe 4.0 speeds on a PCIe 4.0 drive is to transfer data to/from another PCIe 4.0 drive, or perform a raw,large,sequential data read/write - that's pretty much limited to a small subset of video editing operations - for the consumer workloads at least. I'm not advocating that we should be stuck on PCIe 3.0 for ever - progress is good and necessary - but for the momement, the storage bandwidth is ahead of the rest of the system's performance, so it the rest of the system that needs to catch up first before there's any real benefit to getting everyone and everything on gen4.

Chrispy_Whilst that's true, current-gen PCIe 4.0 drives and CPUs aren't actually fast enough to achieve PCIe 4.0 speeds when using them for tasks and as an OS drive.

The point I'm making is that the controllers, CPU, OS scheduler, other storage overheads mean that you never see gen 4 speeds when using it as a single drive. Almost everything is compressed these days and has a CPU/RAM/OS overhead. I'm not even including encryption or realtime AV/Malware scanning which is often enabled for consumers. Even if you're working with large files and reading/writing them to the drive on a regular basis, there's far more at play than the storage bandwidth - you can have perfmon open with your SSD, run some read/write heavy workloads and you'll rarely get speeds beyond PCIe 3.0 x2, if ever. In a PCIe 3.0 system, with a fast gen3 drive, the storage bandwidth is no longer the biggest bottleneck - that burden rests mostly on CPU/OS scheduler for anything outside of non-windows proprietary datacenter/compute nodes.

The only way to see PCIe 4.0 speeds on a PCIe 4.0 drive is to transfer data to/from another PCIe 4.0 drive, or perform a raw,large,sequential data read/write - that's pretty much limited to a small subset of video editing operations - for the consumer workloads at least.

you arent wrong on the concept that most of the time we dont see that raw throughput, and that we get bottlenecks a million other ways... but thats kinda the point of a fast drive, to alleviate things like 4K random writes, as much as it is the max throughput

Musselsalmost every system runs a single drive, very few run multiple

power users with multiple drives are a niche

Single most common storage setup on the planet is a laptop with an undersized SSD and a USB3 external drive for data.
Sad, but true.

Musselsyou arent wrong on the concept that most of the time we dont see that raw throughput, and that we get bottlenecks a million other ways... but thats kinda the point of a fast drive, to alleviate things like 4K random writes, as much as it is the max throughput

See, that is where I 100% agree with you.

My first consumer SSD was a 120GB Indilinx drive and I distinctly remember that the sequential speeds of 250MB/s were impressive but almost irrelevant, it was the 4K random speeds of "just" 26MB/s that were gobsmackingly impressive. That's pathetic by today's standards but it was a 20-fold jump from mechanical and that made ALL the difference.

Gen3/Gen4 is irrelevant at the moment because SSD controllers need to get better (and the OS needs to get better at saturating improved controllers, because it's already the bottleneck often enough to be on the radar now). The fact that consumers often can't tell the difference between an NVMe PCIe 4.0 drive and a SATA SSD is because they both suffer the exact same 4K random performance that is the bottleneck in the overwhelming majority of consumer usage.

Musselsjust lots of users complaining of the same thing - i searched for x570 fan noise and the TUF came up over and over and over - other boards mentioned when researched like the giga boards, had BIOS fixes that slowed the fans - but the TUF never got that fix

weak heatsink or something? my x570-F is silent

Probably just a popular board, which means a lot more people to complain. Was sold as the "premium" option in Best Buy stores for quite a while ( for <$200 with WiFi; I think it's still the main premium option in BB). It's where I got mine in late 2019. Other X570 board available in BB was the mostly overpriced, poor VRM MSI X570 Gaming Edge (Carbon?).

I'll admit, when I bought it, I also bought into the VRM craze. IIRC, X570 TUF was the cheapest board with "excellent for overclocked 3950X" VRMs, which is a completely pointless and useless metric, in retrospect. Though after being burned with my H110 and a simple 7700k at stock, I wasn't going to take more chances on poor VRMs.

Heatsink seems to be large enough for the purpose. Fan doesn't seem undersized. It seems to respond to temps. Dunno. I'm not too far off of rebuilding my system entirely, so I'll see if they left a sticker between the chipset and thermal paste, or something :D I do have two Noctua A12x25 fans aimed right at it, too.

Also hoping for that rumor of AGESA updates helping with temps, to be true.

i am trying to replace the chipset fan with a noctua fan, does anyone know what size fan should i use?

jeremyshawProbably just a popular board, which means a lot more people to complain. Was sold as the "premium" option in Best Buy stores for quite a while ( for <$200 with WiFi; I think it's still the main premium option in BB). It's where I got mine in late 2019. Other X570 board available in BB was the mostly overpriced, poor VRM MSI X570 Gaming Edge (Carbon?).

I'll admit, when I bought it, I also bought into the VRM craze. IIRC, X570 TUF was the cheapest board with "excellent for overclocked 3950X" VRMs, which is a completely pointless and useless metric, in retrospect. Though after being burned with my H110 and a simple 7700k at stock, I wasn't going to take more chances on poor VRMs.

Heatsink seems to be large enough for the purpose. Fan doesn't seem undersized. It seems to respond to temps. Dunno. I'm not too far off of rebuilding my system entirely, so I'll see if they left a sticker between the chipset and thermal paste, or something :D I do have two Noctua A12x25 fans aimed right at it, too.

Also hoping for that rumor of AGESA updates helping with temps, to be true.

no, it's not that

it's almost the only board to show up in these complaints, i've got 2x NVME drives smashing away in my system while mining on a PCI-E 4.0 card and i cant hear the fan with the side panel off - and its a midrange Asus