Wednesday, March 9th 2022

AMD Asks Motherboard Makers to Remove Overclocking Options for Ryzen 7 5800X3D

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TheLostSwede
 Discuss (115 Comments)
TechPowerUp has verified a rumour posted over on VideoCardz that is quite puzzling, as AMD has asked motherboard makers to remove support for overclocking in the UEFI/BIOS for the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. When we asked for a reason as to why this was the case, we were told that AMD was keeping that information to themselves for the time being. The details provided by AMD are short and to the point "5800X3D 8C16T 100-xxxxxxxxx 105 W AGESA: PI 1206b 1/28 Please hide Vermeer-X CPU OC BIOS SETUP options".

The information suggests that this happened back at the end of January, although it's no surprise that this information took some time to leak, as it's not the kind of information that would normally make its way outside of the motherboard manufacturers. AGESA 1.2.0.6 B is also the most current release for a wide range of motherboards, even though it doesn't seem to be offered as a final release from all of the board makers just yet. It's unclear why AMD has done this, but it suggests that there might be some issues related to the 3D V-Cache and overclocking.
Source: VideoCardz

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115 Comments on AMD Asks Motherboard Makers to Remove Overclocking Options for Ryzen 7 5800X3D

#26
Bloax
As for why Zen3D clocks worse than Zen3 - it's likely down to the fact that 32->96 MB of local L3 is a massive decrease in processor micro-stalling (waiting for data), which results in the cores running much hotter.


If AMD has packaging improvements with AM5 chips, it may not be an issue anymore - but non-delidded Zen3 starts to get really hot once you go past 15W-per-core, and you can't do much about it.
For reference as to what I mean by "packaging improvements", then over at Intel they've been actively improving on this since Comet Lake, and ADL stomachs 32W-per-core without getting too toasty - which is pretty crazy.
Posted on Reply
#27
yeeeeman
what is the point of releasing this product to the general public? what does it bring besides complexity, lower frequency higher price and barely better performance (hopefully it is at least better) than 5800X?
Posted on Reply
#28
EatingDirt
ir_cowIf this is true. The CPU is DOA.
Maybe you don't have any experience with modern CPU's, but overclocking them yelds gains of only 0-5% typically, with much larger percentage increase in power consumption. This is especially true for any Ryzen CPU excluding the first generation Zen1. The 5800X for example, saw an increase of only 0.5% performance in games, and was 2% slower in CPU tests on TPU's own review of it. www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x/22.html

A marginal increase is also true on Intel's new Alder Lake CPU's: 12900k(0.0-0.3%), 12700k(0.1%-5.3%) & 12600k(0.2%-3.6%).
Posted on Reply
#29
bug
ThrashZoneHi,
Read some nonsense about auto is the new oc now

What they mean is heat produced from manual oc'ing isn't worth it to them because they only use an aio or air cooler :laugh:
It's not nonsense, new CPUs are really good at overclocking themselves. Just look at CPU reviews on TPU: when manually overclocking, the results barely improve overall and they even regress in some tests.
Posted on Reply
#30
ThrashZone
bugIt's not nonsense, new CPUs are really good at overclocking themselves. Just look at CPU reviews on TPU: when manually overclocking, the results barely improve overall and they even regress in some tests.
Hi,
Doesn't sound like much fun to me
I'm personally not in the market for a new system so it really doesn't matter.
Posted on Reply
#31
jackoneill1984
PunkenjoyTheses day, if you want significant gain, you have to either get low ends parts just to get decent performance or do Memory optimization. I tried that and i hate it. I don't have that much time free and when i do, i want to game, not look at a mem test screen. I think people into that are masochist but that is my opinion.
I have often called myself a masochist in regards to my obsession with memory tuning. I do get a thrill from pushing the IMC and RAM to their limits. However, I do find myself preferring to game these days.
Posted on Reply
#32
FeelinFroggy
With the various frequency boosting technologies used by Intel and AMD has made overclocking obsolete. Maybe you can squeeze out a few more mhz to boost all cores at the cost of a ton of heat. But you will see a loss of single core performance because the single core boost is eliminated when you overclock. These CPUs just overclock themselves now with little to no performance left over.
Posted on Reply
#33
Makaveli
BloaxThose power limits aren't for people doing silly things, blowing through EDC is/was the only way to get positive performance scaling beyond 1900 FCLK and 4700 Mhz.


Running 1900+ FCLK stable with minimum fabric errors is an exercise in bruteforcing a working set of SOC/IOD/CCD voltages, which is boring - but doable.
And 4700+ Mhz in fairly light loads is hardly anything special - my 5800x could run 4850 Mhz at 1.25v in the light loads I barely recall. :- )

Apparently Fun is banned on AM4, sad!
Hopefully AM5 will be better, otherwise Intel is the only place to have fun making your hardware go choo-choo, and minimum framerate go up.
I run FCLK at stock or 1800 at most so this most likely won't be an issue for me.
FeelinFroggyWith the various frequency boosting technologies used by Intel and AMD has made overclocking obsolete. Maybe you can squeeze out a few more mhz to boost all cores at the cost of a ton of heat. But you will see a loss of single core performance because the single core boost is eliminated when you overclock. These CPUs just overclock themselves now with little to no performance left over.
On current platforms I agree I do miss overclocking like It was on socket 1366.

But these days I just set PBO2 on and forget about it.
Posted on Reply
#34
Slizzo
Xex360Do Zen 3 overclock at all, they seem already at their limit.
zlobbyI find their own 'turbos' to be on par with manual OC when the mobo, cooling and the PSU are up to the task. Plus, it's way more stable and power efficient this way.
Yeah, general consensus is to just enable PBO and let the motherboard/CPU decide to do what's best for clocking the CPU.
Posted on Reply
#35
phanbuey
Wasn't most of the 'overclocking' on the 5 series just tuning the pbo curve anyways?

I would take the gobs of cache and an undervolt over an overclock any day.
Posted on Reply
#36
Jism
It must be related to warranty issues or claims, or something with the CPU or 3D Cache tech or at least a interposer that cannot withstand higher voltages or strong currents. Perhaps the heat coming straight from the CCD right into the cache.
yeeeemanwhat is the point of releasing this product to the general public? what does it bring besides complexity, lower frequency higher price and barely better performance (hopefully it is at least better) than 5800X?
For specific workloads it brings a huge improvement. Second the 5800X is a single CCD and thus no latency penalty when you would have a 2 CCD chip. The 5800X itself is fast enough for most modern day workloads anyway. I used to be a fanatic OC'er with even Vapochill installation capable of doing -60 but due to the nature and how CPU's now can boost themself up it's not needed anymore.

Plug and play. That simple.
Posted on Reply
#37
TheLostSwede
News Editor
MakaveliOn current platforms I agree I do miss overclocking like It was on socket 1366.
I miss overclocking like it was on Slot 1 and Socket A...
Posted on Reply
#38
seth1911
450$ and no oc ?

LOL AMD is such a Grabage Company since Ryzen,
bader than intel with the K CPU :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#39
ThrashZone
bugIt's not nonsense, new CPUs are really good at overclocking themselves. Just look at CPU reviews on TPU: when manually overclocking, the results barely improve overall and they even regress in some tests.
Hi,
To clear up a little I was referring to intel system oc'ing not amd.
Posted on Reply
#40
529th
thunderingroarAm i the only one who thinks AMD is being a bit missleading here? In their charts they showed clock for clock comparison (4GHz static OC) of Vcache chip being 15% faster


I forgot they debuted this with the 5900X All that production cost might of been them blowing smoke. I bet it would of killed too much market from the non 3D cache chips so they went with the 5800X Now they are saying: "5800X3D 8C16T 100-xxxxxxxxx 105 W AGESA: PI 1206b 1/28 Please hide Vermeer-X CPU OC BIOS SETUP options" I suspect it has nothing to do with heat or instability judging from this but one never knows! Still excited to see what this chip can do :)
Posted on Reply
#41
Ruru
S.T.A.R.S.
seth1911450$ and no oc ?

LOL AMD is such a Grabage Company since Ryzen,
bader than intel with the K CPU :laugh:
This has to be a bait, but it was Ryzen which made AMD CPUs an option after the flopped FX (and the horribly slow APUs derived from those). Intel CPUs are already at so high factory clocks that overclocking those is as useless as it's on the AMD side.

Manual OC is totally pointless these days.
Posted on Reply
#42
Makaveli
TheLostSwedeI miss overclocking like it was on Slot 1 and Socket A...
lol pencil trick on durons and thunderbirds :)
Posted on Reply
#43
bug
ThrashZoneHi,
To clear up a little I was referring to intel system oc'ing not amd.
Intel's is pretty much the same. Except Intel has a stupidly high max TDP out of the box.
Fwiw, my 12600k was promptly configured with a 125W max TDP and a 90W TDP after 56s of steady load. The performance loss was marginal.
Posted on Reply
#44
Cutechri
I never overclock, nor do I plan on getting this chip, so this is whatever for me. It's probably just the manual OC they're referring to - and manual OC on Zen 2 and above shouldn't be done anyway. Leave the CPU on stock, or just use PBO and Curve Optimizer if you really want a 'boost'.
Posted on Reply
#45
bug
Makavelilol pencil trick on durons and thunderbirds :)
Also on Radeon 9500, if you got the right, L-shaped memory variant.
Posted on Reply
#46
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
birdieThis 3DV cache reminds me of HBM which is also not overclockable.
HBM, at least HBM2, is very overclockable on my Vega 64. It just doesn't tend to result in tangible benefits, at least on my Vega 64, but a >20% overclock on the HBM2 clocks is very feasible.
Posted on Reply
#47
Ruru
S.T.A.R.S.
AquinusHBM, at least HBM2, is very overclockable on my Vega 64. It just doesn't tend to result in tangible benefits, at least on my Vega 64, but a >20% overclock on the HBM2 clocks is very feasible.
Yeah, HBM2 overclocked better than HBM. Many users left it at stock with their Fury (X)/Nano.
Posted on Reply
#48
zlobby
TheLostSwedeI miss overclocking like it was on Slot 1 and Socket A...
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I for one don't miss it. Yeah, it's nostalgia to different times but that's all.
Posted on Reply
#49
ThrashZone
bugIntel's is pretty much the same. Except Intel has a stupidly high max TDP out of the box.
Fwiw, my 12600k was promptly configured with a 125W max TDP and a 90W TDP after 56s of steady load. The performance loss was marginal.
Hi,
Yeah but the intel oc limit is really linked to cooling ability more than voltage limiting even on auto

But indeed limiting how long oc last is just complete crap power limits
All core always scored higher bottom line and if you're not going for that then just save dough and get a non k chip :laugh:

Or as someone said amd could of just left off the X and be done with it.
Posted on Reply
#50
zlobby
FeelinFroggyWith the various frequency boosting technologies used by Intel and AMD has made overclocking obsolete. Maybe you can squeeze out a few more mhz to boost all cores at the cost of a ton of heat. But you will see a loss of single core performance because the single core boost is eliminated when you overclock. These CPUs just overclock themselves now with little to no performance left over.
I personally find it excellent. All the 'juice' should be at users' disposal just as the CPU is dropped in place. Why would anyone want 'hidden' potential, unlocked after tons of headaches?
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