Thursday, September 8th 2022

Key Slides from Intel 13th Gen "Raptor Lake" Launch Presentation Leak

The most juicy bits of the Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" launch press-deck just leaked, courtesy of Igor's Lab. They reveal the six SKUs Intel will debut the 13th Gen Core desktop processor series with, highlight key differences with the previous-gen "Alder Lake," and also detail what the new Intel Z790 chipset brings to the table. To begin with, the first-wave of 13th Gen Core processors will include six SKUs—the Core i9-13900K, i9-13900KF, i7-13700K, i7-13700KF, i5-13600K, and the i5-13600KF. The -K and -KF parts are identical to each other, spare for the lack of integrated graphics with the -KF ones.

Many of the key specs of these six SKUs were already leaked to the web along with those of several SKUs from future waves of 13th Gen SKUs, but this slide confirms a handful interesting specs related to power. The slide confirms 125 W as the Processor Base Power value for all six SKUs, 253 W as the Maximum Turbo Power value for the Core i9 and Core i7 K/KF SKUs; and 181 W as the Maximum Turbo Power for the Core i5 K/KF SKUs. This is a definite step up from the 241 W MTP for the previous-gen Core i9, 190 W MTP for the Core i7, and 150 W MTP for the Core i5. Of course, these limits are like a hedge blocking your path, you can relax them in the motherboard BIOS.
The next slide details the key differences between the 12th Gen "Alder Lake" and 13th Gen "Raptor Lake." The maximum core-count has gone up to 8P+16E. The P-cores are upgraded with higher IPC and L2 cache; the E-cores are upgraded with higher L2 cache. The PCI-Express I/O from the CPU is unchanged—16 PCIe Gen 5 lanes for PEG, 4 PCIe Gen 4 lanes for CPU-attached M.2 NVMe. In contrast, the Ryzen 7000 is confirmed to feature Gen 5 CPU-attached M.2 NVMe. The DDR5 memory speed has been increased to DDR5-5600 native, up from DDR5-4800.

The slide detailing the new Intel Z790 chipset is most interesting. The chipset bus is unchanged at DMI 4.0 x8 (bandwidth comparable to PCI-Express 4.0 x8). While the previous-gen Z690 puts out 12x PCIe Gen 4 and 16x PCIe Gen 3 downstream lanes, the new Z790 puts out an impressive 20x PCIe Gen 4 and 8x PCIe Gen 3 lanes. The USB connectivity is mostly identical except that the Z790 puts out five 20 Gbps USB 3.2x2 ports, instead of four on the Z690.

Intel is expected to announce the 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" processor series and Z790 chipset on September 27. The series will be expanded with more SKUs, and cheaper motherboard chipsets, such as the B760, later.
Source: Igor's Lab
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125 Comments on Key Slides from Intel 13th Gen "Raptor Lake" Launch Presentation Leak

#26
AnarchoPrimitiv
Does anyone need more US;3.2x2 20Gbps ports? Should just skip to USB4, 20Gbps is like a forgetten child at this point,, sitting next to SATAExpress at the bus station.
DimitrimanThat 13600k will be real disruptive to the mid-range segment. This is where intel will hurt AMD the most. If it matches gaming performance of the 8 core 7700X and beats MT, it's gonna be massively popular. Imo AMD should have bumped core count of Ryzen 5 to 8 cores (7600X) and Ryzen 7 to 10 cores (7700X) to better position them vs Raptor Lake. The pricing of the 7600X will probably drop at day 0 after Intel's launch.
There are whispers that AMD will use the Zen4c cores in Bergamo (the 128 core Eypc) to do something like this, so they'd take a Zen4 Chiplet with 8 cores and a Zen4c chiplet with 16 cores and put them in the same 7950x package, so you'd have a 24 core/48 thread AM5 chip.
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#27
ratirt
fevgatosI tried disabling ecores yesterday on spiderman. Minimum fps went from 120 with ecores on to 103 with ecores off. Nough said I think
That is weird indeed
DimitrimanThat 13600k will be real disruptive to the mid-range segment. This is where intel will hurt AMD the most. If it matches gaming performance of the 8 core 7700X and beats MT, it's gonna be massively popular. Imo AMD should have bumped core count of Ryzen 5 to 8 cores (7600X) and Ryzen 7 to 10 cores (7700X) to better position them vs Raptor Lake. The pricing of the 7600X will probably drop at day 0 after Intel's launch.
Why should AMD bump the core count? If the 7600x is around the 13600K's performance why does it have to have more cores? Ecores are not pcores and Intel only added these. half cores to boost MT performance to stay competitive. If AMD's 7600x is in the ball park of 13600k performance why would they add more cores?
kongaVideo games are not going to scale beyond 8 highly-performant cores. This is also why buying anything beyond an 8-core Ryzen is pointless for gaming (with any performance increase on higher-end models being marginal and attributable to the cache and clock speeds)
Really? Cause you have literally a post above you @fevgatos claiming, switching off ecores have lowered FPS in New spiderman which means Spiderman scales with more cores and that includes pcores as well.
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#28
AnarchoPrimitiv
DimitrimanThat 13600k will be real disruptive to the mid-range segment. This is where intel will hurt AMD the most. If it matches gaming performance of the 8 core 7700X and beats MT, it's gonna be massively popular. Imo AMD should have bumped core count of Ryzen 5 to 8 cores (7600X) and Ryzen 7 to 10 cores (7700X) to better position them vs Raptor Lake. The pricing of the 7600X will probably drop at day 0 after Intel's launch.
If the 7700x can game as fast as it claims, I'm not sure you'll be 100% correct, plus from what we've seen here, I think AM5 is definitely the stronger platform, and longevity should in AMD's favor, no question. All that said, I'm assuming consumers make rational choices when that couldn't be anything further from the truth....they'll probably just end up buying from whichever company they've created a parasocial bond with previously and defend the decision after the fact with rational arguments they never used to arrive at that decision in the first place. Haha.
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#29
JustBenching
ratirtThat is weird indeed

Why should AMD bump the core count? If the 7600x is around the 13600K's performance why does it have to have more cores? Ecores are not pcores and Intel only added these. half cores to boost MT performance to stay competitive. If AMD's 7600x is in the ball park of 13600k performance why would they add more cores?

Really? Cause you have literally a post above you @fevgatos claiming, switching off ecores have lowered FPS in New spiderman which means Spiderman scales with more cores and that includes pcores as well.
Im pretty certain the 7600x will be hitting very high cpu utilization on all ps5 ports. My 12900k with HT off hits 85%+ in spidey

Thats with 16 cores....
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#30
konga
ratirtReally? Cause you have literally a post above you @fevgatos claiming, switching off ecores have lowered FPS in New spiderman which means Spiderman scales with more cores and that includes pcores as well.
Yes really. Fevgatos only mentioned minimum FPS, not average FPS, and Alder Lake is prone to weird scheduling issues when you mess with e-cores. The kinds of issues that can result in lower minimums. Meanwhile, the 5950X is only ~8% faster than the 5800X in Spider-Man according to Hardware Unboxed's testing, so I think it's safe to assume that the performance drop discussed here wasn't simply due to fewer cores but, as I said, bad scheduling. Unless more cores are only beneficial to Intel and not AMD for some reason.
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#31
Leshy
PapaTaipeiVideo games
depends on optimalization.. but i would state, that past 6 cores it doesnt scale .. maybe like 1% (6vs8c)
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#32
ratirt
kongaYes really. Fevgatos only mentioned minimum FPS, not average FPS, and Alder Lake is prone to weird scheduling issues when you mess with e-cores. The kinds of issues that can result in lower minimums. Meanwhile, the 5950X is only ~8% faster than the 5800X in Spider-Man according to Hardware Unboxed's testing, so I think it's safe to assume that the performance drop discussed here wasn't simply due to fewer cores but, as I said, bad scheduling. Unless more cores are only beneficial to Intel and not AMD for some reason.
Could be bad scheduling but that has to be checked. I hope HWUB will check that phenomenon and give more insight.
The fact of the matter is, 5950x is still faster by 8% and normally these two 5900x and 5950x would have had the same performance. 8% is quite significant here.
Maybe this Spiderman requires some optimization. That's also plausible.
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#33
JustBenching
kongaYes really. Fevgatos only mentioned minimum FPS, not average FPS, and Alder Lake is prone to weird scheduling issues when you mess with e-cores. The kinds of issues that can result in lower minimums. Meanwhile, the 5950X is only ~8% faster than the 5800X in Spider-Man according to Hardware Unboxed's testing, so I think it's safe to assume that the performance drop discussed here wasn't simply due to fewer cores but, as I said, bad scheduling. Unless more cores are only beneficial to Intel and not AMD for some reason.
Average are also way higher. You dont see any performance increase between zen 3 cause they are both bandwidth starved with ddr4, alderlake isnt with ddr5.
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#34
Leshy
ratirtReally? Cause you have literally a post above you @fevgatos claiming, switching off ecores have lowered FPS in New spiderman which means Spiderman scales with more cores and that includes pcores as well.
LOL its internet :D everyone can claim what wants without providing facts :D
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#35
TheoneandonlyMrK
Leshylol. why i have to read this stupid comment all the time ? for what kind of workload do you need more P cores?
One you clearly don't use, so his point is STILL as valid as yours.
If you're just gaming and surfing and are in a thread about the latest performance CPU from Intel.

Your likely wasting your time and money IMHO since a 3/5 year old mainstream PC with at least 4/8 core's can still do 100% of what 98% of the public want.
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#36
watzupken
fevgatosIm pretty certain the 7600x will be hitting very high cpu utilization on all ps5 ports. My 12900k with HT off hits 85%+ in spidey

Thats with 16 cores....
I don't know if there's been any changes to the thread director in Windows 11, but ideally, games only utilizes the P-cores as I last recall. I don't believe Spider Man game will require that much CPU processing power when you consider the original version was designed for the PS4 with the 8 core Jaguar SOC. They may have remastered it for PS5 and then for PC, but it should not drastically change the fact that this should be fairly light on the CPU.
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#37
Leshy
TheoneandonlyMrKOne you clearly don't use, so his point is STILL as valid as yours.
If you're just gaming and surfing and are in a thread about the latest performance CPU from Intel.

Your likely wasting your time and money IMHO since a 3/5 year old mainstream PC with at least 4/8 core's can still do 100% of what 98% of the public want.
nope .. his point is not valid .. not at all :) he wants more P cores for more FPS, as i stated before. it doesnt scale for gaming .. so there is no point of adding more P cores. For MT task are E cores ideal.
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#38
watzupken
ratirtThat is weird indeed

Why should AMD bump the core count? If the 7600x is around the 13600K's performance why does it have to have more cores? Ecores are not pcores and Intel only added these. half cores to boost MT performance to stay competitive. If AMD's 7600x is in the ball park of 13600k performance why would they add more cores?

Really? Cause you have literally a post above you @fevgatos claiming, switching off ecores have lowered FPS in New spiderman which means Spiderman scales with more cores and that includes pcores as well.
I think there are articles out there that document performance regressions with the E-cores disabled. These tests were done to see if disabling the E-cores will leave more cache for the P-cores and therefore, improve performance. Having said that, the other reason which I can think of is that the E-cores are running the background tasks, while the P-cores for games. When you disabled the E-cores, the P-cores have to pick up the slack. So it is now managing both the game and the background tasks. Performance hit is possible.
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#39
Dimitriman
ratirtThat is weird indeed

Why should AMD bump the core count? If the 7600x is around the 13600K's performance why does it have to have more cores? Ecores are not pcores and Intel only added these. half cores to boost MT performance to stay competitive. If AMD's 7600x is in the ball park of 13600k performance why would they add more cores?

Really? Cause you have literally a post above you @fevgatos claiming, switching off ecores have lowered FPS in New spiderman which means Spiderman scales with more cores and that includes pcores as well.
Well because assuming the Rpl P-core = Zen 4 in gaming perf. You are getting additional 8 threads on top of that, and if priced the same, the 7600X will look very underwhelming by comparison.
AnarchoPrimitivIf the 7700x can game as fast as it claims, I'm not sure you'll be 100% correct, plus from what we've seen here, I think AM5 is definitely the stronger platform, and longevity should in AMD's favor, no question. All that said, I'm assuming consumers make rational choices when that couldn't be anything further from the truth....they'll probably just end up buying from whichever company they've created a parasocial bond with previously and defend the decision after the fact with rational arguments they never used to arrive at that decision in the first place. Haha.
Assuming gaming sweetspot is 8 cores, then probably the 7700X can game faster. But I also expect it to cost more and probably still not match MT performance of the 13600K. The key thing will be how Intel prices the 13600K, if they price it max $350, then it will be very well positioned vs. 7600X and 7700X. I am definitely a person who chooses with my pocket rather than my bond with either company, so I am eyeing both the 13600K and 7700X for my next ITX build.
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#40
JustBenching
watzupkenI don't know if there's been any changes to the thread director in Windows 11, but ideally, games only utilizes the P-cores as I last recall. I don't believe Spider Man game will require that much CPU processing power when you consider the original version was designed for the PS4 with the 8 core Jaguar SOC. They may have remastered it for PS5 and then for PC, but it should not drastically change the fact that this should be fairly light on the CPU.
The ps4 has special hardware that does decompression, your pc doesnt. Thats why spidey needs tons of memory bandwidth and, if you have the bandwidth, then it needs cores.
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#41
ratirt
watzupkenI think there are articles out there that document performance regressions with the E-cores disabled. These tests were done to see if disabling the E-cores will leave more cache for the P-cores and therefore, improve performance. Having said that, the other reason which I can think of is that the E-cores are running the background tasks, while the P-cores for games. When you disabled the E-cores, the P-cores have to pick up the slack. So it is now managing both the game and the background tasks. Performance hit is possible.
What I think @fevgatos says about the FPS drop when ecores are disabled, is that the pcores have to do the background work (whatever is being done there). Normally ecores are useless for gaming anyway. Games use only pcores for that.
DimitrimanWell because assuming the Rpl P-core = Zen 4 in gaming perf. You are getting additional 8 threads on top of that, and if priced the same, the 7600X will look very underwhelming by comparison.
I would rather look at the performance in general not how many threads it has because one thread is not equal to the other. Same with cores.
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#42
JustBenching
ratirtWhat I think @fevgatos says about the FPS drop when ecores are disabled, is that the pcores have to do the background work (whatever is being done there). Normally ecores are useless for gaming anyway. Games use only pcores for that.


I would rather look at the performance in general not how many threads it has because one thread is not equal to the other. Same with cores.
No, i think in the case of spiderman and hitman ecores do asset decompression on the fly.
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#43
TheoneandonlyMrK
Leshynope .. his point is not valid .. not at all :) he wants more P cores for more FPS, as i stated before. it doesnt scale for gaming .. so there is no point of adding more P cores. For MT task are E cores ideal.
Nope, shit being spouted, my task is not your task, and I am not responsible for educating you on others use of computers.
LenneAnd still a 8-core flagship? They should put more real cores instead of doubling those Atom joke cores.
Leshylol. why i have to read this stupid comment all the time ? for what kind of workload do you need more P cores?
He at that point had not mentioned games or FPS and you piped up who needs more.

Me, always, I am not alone and Not for game's or web surfing.
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#44
AM4isGOD
Leshylol. why i have to read this stupid comment all the time ? for what kind of workload do you need more P cores?
It's the same dumb regurgitated comment from AMD users.
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#45
thelawnet
When does the 13400 come out? That's the biggest upgrade, the rest of this stuff is very incremental and boring.
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#46
bug
All we need now are same clocks, same configured TDPs benchmarks ;)
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#47
docnorth
CrackongBased on TPU's previous E-core only benchmark, power consumption of 8 e-core full loading is around 65W

Now

They added 8 more e cores to the 13900k (and runs at higher MAX frequency) , just 12W added to the MTP ?

How ?
Raptor Lake is supposedly more efficient and leaked benchmarks show that Intel's claims this time might be true.
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#48
Leshy
TheoneandonlyMrKNope, shit being spouted, my task is not your task, and I am not responsible for educating you on others use of computers.
please educate me ..

I asked him. he did not reply.. someone mentioned gaming .. so whats ur problem ?

if u need more cores intel/amd have a platform called HEDT (high-end desktop) and they have all the cores u wish :) or if u need some more cores for ur mysterious task, there is other segment called server ..

i series is for users, that doesnt need more cores :)
AM4isGODIt's the same dumb regurgitated comment from AMD users.
exactly .. new buzzword is "platform longevity" .. normies are just marketing repeaters :D
Posted on Reply
#49
bug
CrackongBased on TPU's previous E-core only benchmark, power consumption of 8 e-core full loading is around 65W

Now

They added 8 more e cores to the 13900k (and runs at higher MAX frequency) , just 12W added to the MTP ?

How ?
This works the other way around with modern CPUs: TDP dictates frequencies, it's not a result of them anymore. Cores will use as much as they are allowed to, it's highly unlikely to max out every one of them at the same time for more than seconds. This is the main reason TDP has becoming such a complicated issue of its own.
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