Monday, September 12th 2022

Intel Core i9-13900KS Could be World's First 6 GHz Processor

With Intel's 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" facing stiff competition from AMD's Ryzen 7000 series, and the "Zen 4" series being augmented with 7000X3D series in early-2023, it's becoming a foregone conclusion that Intel will launch a possible "Core i9-13900KS" SKU, which is on its way to being the world's first desktop processor that can boost up to the 6.00 GHz mark. The processor should be able to boost its 8 "Raptor Cove" P-cores to the 6.00 GHz mark, given that the maximum boost frequency of the stock i9-13900K is already rumored to be at 5.70 GHz.

At its Tech Tour event in Israel, Intel confirmed that "Raptor Lake" brings a 15% single-threaded, and 41% multi-threaded performance gain over "Alder Lake." The single-threaded gain is from the higher IPC of the "Raptor Cove" P-core, coupled with its frequency set as high as 5.70 GHz; whereas the multi-threaded performance gain is a combination of increased IPC of the P-cores, and increased frequencies for both the P-cores and E-cores. The E-core clusters get more shared L2 cache, which should improve their performance, too.
Sources: Ian Cutress (Twitter), VideoCardz, Andreas Schilling
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51 Comments on Intel Core i9-13900KS Could be World's First 6 GHz Processor

#26
dgianstefani
TPU Proofreader
I would argue edge case frequency workloads such as 6 Ghz single core boost is precisely the ideal situation to use a TEC. As you may know, voltage leakage is increased at higher temperatures, so there is a kind of thermal/voltage runaway to maintain stability if pushing high current without adequate cooling.

The cooler a chip is, the less voltage is required to run it stably, as a general rule.
fevgatosSure but then you dont need a tec. Im doing 5.8 on a small air cooler
Posted on Reply
#27
JustBenching
dgianstefaniI would argue edge case frequency workloads such as 6 Ghz single core boost is precisely the ideal situation to use a TEC. As you may know, voltage leakage is increased at higher temperatures, so there is a kind of thermal/voltage runaway to maintain stability if pushing high current without adequate cooling.

The cooler a chip is, the less voltage is required to run it stably, as a general rule.
Yeah, at around 80c stability starts going out the window and you need more and more voltage. That's why im running 5.6 on 3 cores instead of 5.8, to be stable at 5.8 I need to push 1.58 volts
Posted on Reply
#28
TheoneandonlyMrK
fevgatosYeah, at around 80c stability starts going out the window and you need more and more voltage. That's why im running 5.6 on 3 cores instead of 5.8, to be stable at 5.8 I need to push 1.58 volts
Oh, because you declare 5.8 every other day without that caveat of 3x5.6.

Clearly you're running a manually honed setup that's had way more time and thought put in then the average Joe yet. Use your setup as a cludgeon to bait AMD user's with bullshit comments like mine runs fast cool and efficient, perhaps but not without an amount of effort most Won't put in.
Thanks for the clarity, post noted.
Posted on Reply
#29
Outback Bronze
dgianstefaniThe cooler a chip is, the less voltage is required to run it stably, as a general rule.
Can this also be a case of better silicone too? Better silicone = lower voltage = lower temps?

I'm finding the better silicone you've got the better off you are, as a general rule for the average overclocker.
Posted on Reply
#30
JustBenching
TheoneandonlyMrKOh, because you declare 5.8 every other day without that caveat of 3x5.6.

Clearly you're running a manually honed setup that's had way more time and thought put in then the average Joe yet. Use your setup as a cludgeon to bait AMD user's with bullshit comments like mine runs fast cool and efficient, perhaps but not without an amount of effort most Won't put in.
Thanks for the clarity, post noted.
You think someone got baited and thought im running ALL Core at 5.8? lolk, thought its obvious we are talking about ST speeds, although in my case I use it for 3 cores for more consistent boosting
Posted on Reply
#31
TheoneandonlyMrK
fevgatosSure but then you dont need a tec. Im doing 5.8 on a small air cooler
Hmmn , bullshit comments meant to mislead evidence found.
Posted on Reply
#32
dgianstefani
TPU Proofreader
Outback BronzeCan this also be a case of better silicone too? Better silicone = lower voltage = lower temps?

I'm finding the better silicone you've got the better off you are, as a general rule for the average overclocker.
Not necessarily, there is "better silicone" for different things, i.e. a top binned mobile chip may have fantastic frequency range at a low voltage, but will not scale to higher frequencies at high voltages as well as a differently binned chip. Leaky, hot silicon can sometimes be the absolute best at overclocking, assuming you can cool it.

There's also chips that have excellent core silicon but terrible IMC, fast cores that aren't fed with fast memory at low latency are bandwidth starved, and won't actually end up faster than a different chip with worse cores but a more normal IMC e.g.
Posted on Reply
#33
JustBenching
TheoneandonlyMrKHmmn , bullshit comments meant to mislead evidence found.
Whats bullshit about it? I've done 5.8 on 3 cores on an air cooler, have uploaded benchmarks on CPU Z and cinebench. The heck are you talking about?
Posted on Reply
#34
DeathtoGnomes
ratirtOr maybe boosted Intels frequency and doubled the power consumed? Since Intel is advertising the 6ghz, the idea of an Intel top chip sucking 400watts seems plausible now.
Nvidia set the bar for higher wattages and Intel just followed suit. 400w just to keep up with the 5.7Ghz.:rolleyes:
Posted on Reply
#35
napata
fevgatosIpc increase over alderlake? Doubt
You think they increased L2 to waste die space? More L3 too.
Posted on Reply
#36
R-T-B
Outback BronzeCan this also be a case of better silicone too?
Drop the e and maybe.
Posted on Reply
#37
Chrispy_
Yes, yes.... of course 6GHz was inevitable, we've been north of 5GHz for a few years now.

The real question is "at what cost?"

6GHz at 250W simply isn't worth it when 5.5GHz is only 100W.
Posted on Reply
#38
Tropick
dgianstefaniLeaky, hot silicon can sometimes be the absolute best at overclocking, assuming you can cool it.
Can absolutely confirm. Was benching a delidded GTX 580 Classified for fun, had 55ish% ASIC quality reported by GPU-Z but that thing could take a ludicrous amount of voltage.

Had it on an Kraken X73 AIO direct die cooled with Conductonaut LM paste. At 1.3v the thing was an absolute fireball sucking down 384W TBP. Needed that AIO running max pump/fan speed to keep temps in check but it was game stable at 1035MHz and bench stable at 1067MHz. Sometimes the worse the silicon the harder you can push it.

www.3dmark.com/fs/27381941
Posted on Reply
#39
Sabotaged_Enigma
A strange competition is going on here, or to say the competition is going the wrong way.
Abandoning power efficiency and making the last juice of gigahertz is just far from smart. I'm saying this on both AMD and Intel.
What's the actual/realistic meaning of huge amount of power bringing that high clock speed? Who's gonna buy a CPU and see that number in monitoring software flying so high and making himself happy?
After all, if it's good, it's good; if it's rubbish, it's rubbish. Frequency game changes nothing.
Posted on Reply
#40
Outback Bronze
dgianstefaniLeaky, hot silicon can sometimes be the absolute best at overclocking, assuming you can cool it.
Yes, I agree but I was referring to the "average overclocker" so on air or simple water cooler.
Posted on Reply
#41
aQi
FasolaTime to bring that old chiller out.
Lol, just the comment i was looking for :roll:
Posted on Reply
#42
dgianstefani
TPU Proofreader
Outback BronzeYes, I agree but I was referring to the "average overclocker" so on air or simple water cooler.
There's not much room for the average overclocker these days, chips are pushed fairly well out of the box. If you're going to overclock it needs to be done properly, or in many cases performance will actually be lost. I.e. only really worth OC if you eliminate cooling and power issues, then manually tune for frequency and latency.

Adjusting for more efficiency is a different ball park.
Posted on Reply
#43
The Von Matrices
Яid!culousOwOA strange competition is going on here, or to say the competition is going the wrong way.
Abandoning power efficiency and making the last juice of gigahertz is just far from smart. I'm saying this on both AMD and Intel.
What's the actual/realistic meaning of huge amount of power bringing that high clock speed? Who's gonna buy a CPU and see that number in monitoring software flying so high and making himself happy?
After all, if it's good, it's good; if it's rubbish, it's rubbish. Frequency game changes nothing.
Dennard scaling is over. It used to be that CPUs were limited by silicon switching speed long before power became a limiting factor; now the opposite is true. And since power efficiency gains are declining with each node shrink, the main way to increase performance now is to increase power. If TDP limits were fixed we'd be seeing only ~10% performance improvements with each node shrink because even though more transistors were on the chip, clock speeds would have to decline to keep constant power.
Posted on Reply
#44
watzupken
dgianstefaniFixed with good IHS substrate and solder, further fixed if you delid and apply liquid metal. For the people who care about 200Mhz 6Ghz numbers, this isn't a significant obstacle.

There's also TEC coolers which Intel has recently pushed. Just an engineering/design challenge really. CPU's aren't going to change anytime soon in their die sizes compared to GPUs, and the bleeding edge of performance will always cost that exponential bit more.
When you have this much heat output and an IHS over it, it’s going to run hot no matter how good the IHS substrate and solder is. Don’t forget GPU dies are bare, and the GPU chip itself don’t actually draw as much power as this CPU itself. The 350W power draw is collectively used by the components on the board. Intel’s been marketing CPU with very high clock speed where most conventional coolers can no longer manage the power it requires and heat output that results from it. I would be interested to see if Raptor Lake will require a significant power bump when actual review comes up.
Posted on Reply
#45
Sabotaged_Enigma
The Von MatricesIf TDP limits were fixed we'd be seeing only ~10% performance improvements with each node shrink because even though more transistors were on the chip, clock speeds would have to decline to keep constant power.
Sorry but I don't think so. I still believe with a well-designed microarchitecture and a well-selected process code, we would get pretty decent performance gain. Moving from Zen 2 to Zen 3 took only a microarchitecture improvement other than process node or power limit or huge transistor count increase. A 19% IPC lift is still a huge leap even frequency is not increased a lot.
So I say the competition is going the wrong way. The major way I believe is still designing excellent microarchitecture and making it efficient. Otherwise, why not make a 10 nm version of Pentium 4 and make it 10 GHz, and say look we've got the first 10 GHz CPU in the world with small-sized footprint saying "oops if you ignore rubbish performance and astonishing power consumption". What about 7 nm version of 10 GHz Bulldozer? Does anybody like it or does it make any sense?
Posted on Reply
#46
Minus Infinity
So Intel has edited the scripts and massaged what they said was a 8-9% IPC uplift into magically now 15% just a b it better than AMD's 13%. Simply amazing effort from Intel's marketers.

We all knew 13900KS would go for broke for bragging rights, power be damned. Brain dead and egregious waste of resources. Huang will do the same with Lovelace. Both will be under immense pressure going forward and Intel has to raise prices. 13900KS will be $850+ IMO. WIll be a perfect match for the ludicrous 4090Ti, better get that 1.5kW PSU order in quick.
Posted on Reply
#47
trparky
Xex360Given that high end AIOs struggle with 12900KS what kind of cooling solution you'd need to cool this alleged CPU?
A nuclear power station style cooling tower.
Posted on Reply
#48
ratirt
Minus InfinitySo Intel has edited the scripts and massaged what they said was a 8-9% IPC uplift into magically now 15% just a b it better than AMD's 13%. Simply amazing effort from Intel's marketers.

We all knew 13900KS would go for broke for bragging rights, power be damned. Brain dead and egregious waste of resources. Huang will do the same with Lovelace. Both will be under immense pressure going forward and Intel has to raise prices. 13900KS will be $850+ IMO. WIll be a perfect match for the ludicrous 4090Ti, better get that 1.5kW PSU order in quick.
and we are supposedly be in a power crisis :) I agree with the Intel went for the 6Ghz to be better than AMD. As the first to get there. It would seem Intel has an obsession over being the best at everything and that would also mean enormous power consumption as well :D They have a very nice strides in that area to be honest.
Posted on Reply
#49
Jimmy_
hmmm.. IPC gains over ADL - doubtful to me a bit, as I haven't seem anywhere regrading IPC gains or may they ll cover during their launch events -
Posted on Reply
#50
Greggie
On my way to buy a beefy psu…
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