Monday, March 27th 2023
NVIDIA Executive Says Cryptocurrencies Add Nothing Useful to Society
In an interview with The Guardian, NVIDIA's Chief Technical Officer (CTO) Michael Kagan added his remarks on the company and its cryptocurrency position. Being the maker of the world's most powerful graphics cards and compute accelerators, NVIDIA is the most prominent player in the industry regarding any computing application from cryptocurrencies to AI and HPC. In the interview, Mr. Kegan expressed his opinions and argued that newly found applications such as ChatGTP bring much higher value to society compared to cryptocurrencies. "All this crypto stuff, it needed parallel processing, and [Nvidia] is the best, so people just programmed it to use for this purpose. They bought a lot of stuff, and then eventually it collapsed, because it doesn't bring anything useful for society. AI does," said Kegan, adding that "I never believed that [crypto] is something that will do something good for humanity. You know, people do crazy things, but they buy your stuff, you sell them stuff. But you don't redirect the company to support whatever it is."
When it comes to AI and other applications, the company has a very different position. "With ChatGPT, everybody can now create his own machine, his own programme: you just tell it what to do, and it will. And if it doesn't work the way you want it to, you tell it 'I want something different," he added, arguing that the new AI applications have usability level beyond that of crypto. Interestingly, trading applications are also familiar to NVIDIA, as they had clients (banks) using their hardware for faster trading execution. Mr. Kegan noted: "We were heavily involved in also trading: people on Wall Street were buying our stuff to save a few nanoseconds on the wire, the banks were doing crazy things like pulling the fibers under the Hudson taut to make them a little bit shorter, to save a few nanoseconds between their datacentre and the stock exchange."
Source:
The Guardian
When it comes to AI and other applications, the company has a very different position. "With ChatGPT, everybody can now create his own machine, his own programme: you just tell it what to do, and it will. And if it doesn't work the way you want it to, you tell it 'I want something different," he added, arguing that the new AI applications have usability level beyond that of crypto. Interestingly, trading applications are also familiar to NVIDIA, as they had clients (banks) using their hardware for faster trading execution. Mr. Kegan noted: "We were heavily involved in also trading: people on Wall Street were buying our stuff to save a few nanoseconds on the wire, the banks were doing crazy things like pulling the fibers under the Hudson taut to make them a little bit shorter, to save a few nanoseconds between their datacentre and the stock exchange."
88 Comments on NVIDIA Executive Says Cryptocurrencies Add Nothing Useful to Society
A review of graphics cards distributes in Germany has found that four out of six retailers has put in place stricter limits on Nvidia’s Geforce brand over the past month. By limiting the number of cards per order to two or three, the manufacturer hopes to discourage cryptocurrency miners who buy in bulk, and have as many as possible reach gamers.
Nvidia spokesman Boris Böhles told the German tech magazine computerbase that: “For NVIDIA, gamers come first. All activities related to our Geforce product line are targeted at our main audience. To ensure that Geforce gamers continue to have good Geforce graphics card availability in the current situation, we recommend that our trading partners make the appropriate arrangements to meet gamers’ needs as usual.” Still, Nvidia stresses that retailers do not have to follow this “recommendation,” as the manufacturer does not want to intervene in the freedom and independence of traders.
Nvidia developed the CMP to reduce demand from crypto miners for its Graphics Processing Units (GPUs). Although Bitcoin miners have moved on from GPUs to dedicated ASIC miners, it remains cost-effective to mine other cryptocurrencies such as Ethereum using GPUs.
Facing a backlash from its core consumer base of PC gamers, Nvidia first attempted to limit its GPUs to make them "less desirable" to miners, before launching the CMP in 2021.
Nvidia said the software for its forthcoming GeForce RTX 3060 card will limit how efficiently it can process Ethereum transactions by about 50%.
This will make it less economical for miners to use the card for mining Ethereum.
Nvidia is extending its cryptocurrency mining limits to newly manufactured GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070, and RTX 3060 Ti graphics cards. After nerfing the hash rates of the RTX 3060 for its launch in February, Nvidia is now starting to label new cards with a “Lite Hash Rate” or “LHR” identifier to let potential customers know the cards will be restricted for mining.
“This reduced hash rate only applies to newly manufactured cards with the LHR identifier and not to cards already purchased,” says Matt Wuebbling, Nvidia’s head GeForce marketing. “We believe this additional step will get more GeForce cards at better prices into the hands of gamers everywhere.”
Computer chip manufacturer Nvidia has seen revenue from its dedicated crypto mining hardware slump from $105 million in Q3 2021 to just $24 million in Q4, a drop of 77%.
According to Nvidia's filing, revenue from its Crypto Mining Processor (CMP) for 2021 totaled $550 million—just 0.2% of its total revenues of $26.91 billion for the period.
That I agree with fiat has f all behind It crypto has f all behind It.
But ideologically I would rather be paying in bitcoin because The man isn't running the printer, and sorting their friends out.
Not all crypto or cash or ecoins Are equal, in value or cost of circulation.
Though I do believe hard cash should Always be a option.
I am glad mining is dead truly, but I don't see fiat as the Solution, or perfect shit it's relegated below Apple pay, gpay, card, phone already in most people's usage.
I've seen many financial charts of the last 100 year's ish, they all say one thing, recently, printer go b4rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttrx10.
The AI market is also not buying the cards normal consumers buy. These are vastly different they have also gone up in price as well because, it's more complex! Thing is unlike gamers they don't whine and cry when they get what they want. They pay the tab and say thank you.
If you want to buy things from companies that can sell them at a loss so it fits your budget get a console!
as for RTX ... well ... i have yet to see a game that look interesting/better with that tech on ... (that might change with Path Tracing ... but if it's another proprietary bag of bollocks, which it will be, then i will have the same interest in it as RTXs RTRT )
hilariously, i ran Cyberpunk 2077 bench RT on 1620p FSR on quality and it ran ... acceptable ... (aka: no dips under 35fps )Hi,
I can say the same about Nvidia :laugh: (i had driver nightmare since TNT1, while AMD i did not experience more than one really annoying driver issue since a MACH64VT ;) )
what this news is inspiring me ...
i guess Jensen got angered at the fact that his favorite leather jacket supplier did not accept bitcoins or Ethereum?
although he could have leveraged the obscene margin made on the sale during the 2 years of GPU "inflation" and get El-Jay (L-J or Leather Jacket, if you want) with it... not a smart move ... eh...
glad ETH gone PoS (Proof of Stake not Piece of Sh... well ... the second is also valide ... ) so i could get a RX 6700 XT way cheaper than what my GTX 1070 did cost initially ... (also a bit cheaper than a reference card planed MSRP :laugh: )
for the AI part ... Skynet is overused ... i will rather say .... "in before SHODAN rise"
Lets say they perfect it i bet they be one of the many company's that fck overyone over with it..
Nothing can come good from it only to a company.
Most of those "efforts" were just PR stunts, while Nvidia sold crypto cards to miners outside normal channels and hid the crypto revenue in all their sectors and throughout longer period - just look how the revenue in of course Gaming, but also in Data Center, Professional Visualization slumped in months after the crypto collapse...
You need a machete to cut through the hipocrisy shown by this trash of a company.
Inflation yes, higher performance parts where also a constant in the past. But it's not today. Today we usually get some performance uplift, with a few extra features at much higher prices, or about the same performance and a couple extra features at the same performance/dollar, meaning some price increases also. We also see companies abandoning lower price points to force people to pay more for higher cost products.
In the past performance uplift at the same price was the normal. There was also an increase in complexity from generation to generation, in the number of features supported and probably those designing those older chips, didn't had the tools they have today. But they weren't trying to push prices up, neither where expecting a software trick to get accepted as a way of increasing framerates, just to create the illusion of a faster product.
The AI market is new and addressed to professionals and corporations. This means that prices of GPUs for that market can have any price the leading AI company decides. And thank you for informing me that Google isn't buying RTX 4090's for their projects.
As for that console remark at the end. Again I might be wrong here, but this is something that points at what I mentioned in the beginning. Arrogance. I could be wrong here of course.
You are not 15 right? OK, OK, ....
Its likely the cards NVIDIA will be selling to AI Firms are Quadro. I doubt these firms will be buying up gamer cards by the truckload.
AMD cards where also good for mining, but I haven't read a single article saying that AMD was selling directly to miners. On the other hand, if Nvidia was selling, no reason for AMD to not do the same.
And AMD did something that Nvidia didn't. Offered a GPU that miners AND scalpers didn't wanted AT ALL. The RX 6500XT. Granted probably most gamers also didn't wanted it, but it was there, available at a much lower price than older arch Nvidia GPUs. Anyone building a new system and wanted a new GPU had an option. The LHR cards from Nvidia, while they where limited for mining, they where going to scalpers, NOT gamers.
Fiat money is in fact backed by something, the government that controls the money. Again, inflation is needed if you want an economy to function.
The only value crypto has is in speculation and the ignorance people have of the function of currency. The deflationary aspect & instability of crypto makes it is worthless as an actual currency. Why would you spend something that is constantly increasing in value? Who would want to get paid or pay people in a currency that's can deviate in value more than 5% every week?
High end consumer gaming is a premium product. And guess what! Each single time someone screamed for better graphics, faster, and whatever else it became more premium. And like all premium products your product is only desireable if it charges a premium price. Otherwise it will not command a premium position. Competition creates a race to the highest price of whats desirable and that price must always go up and a race to the bottom for the trash which much always be lower quality. Complexity has also gone up. You want cheaper GPUs, quit going for faster GPUs!
All the complaining boils down to "I can't afford it". It's no different than someone complaining about the price of kitchen knives or watches that are out of their budget. Just buy what's in your budget.
As for the console remark it's exactly on point. MS and Sony sell their items at a loss and make it back on licensing and fees. That's not possible on the PC. The only way it is possible is to move PC gaming to the cloud with gaming as a service where you can set tiers by performace and the better the refresh and details the higher the price per month. Which is what is going to happen to the PC. Might as well get used to it.
I can afford it. The thing is to decide with which side you are. Being a shareholder and at the same time a consumer, IN HERE, I post as a consumer. So what I want to say here as a consumer is that unfortunately for current lazy sales/marketing stuff who think they can overcharge the same performance multiple times under different names, because it is their right to become rich in an instance, I wasn't born yesterday to swallow this BS. Computer hardware is one of those products that was getting huge increases in performance, complexity, features for many many years, from generation to generation, while prices where mostly stable and following reasonable slow increases. Nothing like today where prices go up, performance/dollar stays the same and lower price points never get a new product to force people to either buy a second hand/old option or just pay the extra corporation/management/sales TAX.
As for the console remark, no it's not. It usually depents on how someone uses that argument. And when it is used as "you are poor, stick to a console", argument, well for me it's not an argument.
Every bitcoin transaction is easy to track, so I don't know what kind of decentralization we are talking about here, in fact, it would be a perfect tool to control society and track your transactions. This reminds me of that Google Chrome incognito meme from skeletonclaw.
Money is used as the mean of exchange, they themselves have no inherent value. It is all based on trust.
Crypto has no guns and no prisons.
Not gold but. They back it.
Insure your savings.
They could do that with beer coasters no or can ring pulls or apple coins or dollar's
Yes I see how I might look ignorant to you.
But if I were you I would do some reading.
All your bullshit about stability yet your government stepped in on two or more banks this month.
And inflation is well under control, not.
If the same stabilization was being done on crypto IT WOULD be stable.
You can curb inflation to 0% and or even have deflation, the only issue is the cost of the measures in % of potential lost GDP growth. The current economics consensus about 2% inflation is not because "inflation is good" but because there is a cost behind maintaining the inflation. 2% inflation per year seems like the good middle ground between currency depreciation and the total cost of maintaining it. For example, if you would want to experience 0% inflation, the cost of it would be enormous, significantly higher base interest rate and way slower economic growth, if any.
There were periods in human history, when massive deflation was actually a thing, and it did not hurt the economy, it actually flourished. For example, the period of the 19th century when the US has basically an open border policy and accepted migrants en masse. During that period, productivity increased so high and dramatically that the real value of the US dollar massively increased and you could purchase way more goods for the same amount of currency that's how the US and its real wages eventually overtook Europe and how the US became so rich. For example, just thanks to Standard Oil, the price of oil and gas decreased by 80% and then they were forcefully dismantled into several companies.
Fiat money is not backed by anything and certainly not by the government. The national bank is usually the only legal issuer of the currency and the national bank is also usually a sui generis institution, aka independent and not controlled by the government so the government doesn't decide to print money out of the blue. Of course, I am talking about the Western financial system here.
Crypo is like the field of dreams, build it and they will come although big difference is physical verses crypo-vapor
No regulations let crooks and fools mingle under the world of shit coins.
I think Shit coins, NTFS etc are the natural first, farm the fools steps but they are not bitcoin.
They are not govcoin either.
And I think a lot collude them all into one pot, to me.
That's like suggesting monopoly money is just as viable as tender as the Dollar.
The gap between bitcoin and shit coins is equal.