they will constantly remind reviewers and consumers of it's DLSS3 frame gen and say it will be worth it and defeat the competing cards 2-3X

Vya DomusThe fact that it's not clear if this will beat a 3070 says everything you need to know, lol.

It would be a very disappointing product if it can't beat the 3070. The 3070 is only ~10% faster than the 3060 Ti, so if they can't manage a >10% performance uplift...

I guess the 4060 no Ti will be the equivalent of the 3050 in the Ampere generation ~23% CUDA and then costs $399

With these prices, discrete graphic card market will kill itself in generation or two, along with PC gaming. It will be niche, where few chosen ones will enjoy for three or four years more, until gaming developers completely abandon PC due to lack of market.

Consoles and Mobile gaming are obvious future now... Who in the right mind will give 500 EUR for middle-class graphics when it is the price of PS5/Xbox S?

Folks, I ain't no commie, but damn, this is what happens with capitalism gone wild. You buy stuff from a company, for her you fight fanboy battles on forums, you help her grow, and what does she do? She flips you off, cheats on you with some big spender, then comes crawling back not with her tail between her legs, but with insane prices like it's hot stuff!

Nvidia doesn't worry. Nvidia cards will be faster than AMD cards in RT and that will be enough of an excuse for people to buy their cards, no matter what AMD will offer.
Fake Generation (damn, this series does look like fake generation, meaning the only performance improvement is the fake one) will also offer one more excuse for people to pay more for a worst product than the previous one at this price level.

Can't wait for $900 xx60 class card

wolfafter the lukewarm reception the 4070 just got, I was hoping for even lower. Let them sit on shelves.

They are fine with that. Nvidia only cares about high margin Ai market right now, the successor to crypto. Believe me, gamers have been the last thing on Jensen's mind for the longest time.

john_Nvidia doesn't worry. Nvidia cards will be faster than AMD cards in RT and that will be enough of an excuse for people to buy their cards, no matter what AMD will offer.
Fake Generation (damn, this series does look like fake generation, meaning the only performance improvement is the fake one) will also offer one more excuse for people to pay more for a worst product than the previous one at this price level.

nVidia doesn't care about PC gaming anymore - now they are just milking maximum amount of money from minimum number of sold cards... They already have an exit strategy and don't believe that fighting on the PC market is important, otherwise they would not treat customers like idiots.

It does not matter what bunch of fanboys and IT fans talk on IT forum - what matters is ordinary Joe will buy in future. And trust me, gaming PC is quite low on that list. And with these prices of graphic cards, it will get lower and lower as time passes...

john_Nvidia doesn't worry. Nvidia cards will be faster than AMD cards in RT and that will be enough of an excuse for people to buy their cards, no matter what AMD will offer.
Fake Generation (damn, this series does look like fake generation, meaning the only performance improvement is the fake one) will also offer one more excuse for people to pay more for a worst product than the previous one at this price level.

I mean there are only like 170 games that support Ray Tracing and like 30-40 that support DLSS 3. So there isn't a strong case for the 4000 series at the moment really. Especially considering they are probably going to have all next gen cards on a PCI Express 5 lane and we are in the middle of a transition from DDR4 to DDR5 platforms. GPU's this gen needed to be cheaper to push down platform costs.

DimitrimanThey are fine with that. Nvidia only cares now about high margin Ai market right now, the successor to crypto. Believe me, gamers have been the last thing on Jensen's mind for the longest time.

There is no guarantees with Ai right now. Even Google is taking massive hits to stocks because people aren't confident Google will be the number one search engine in 3-5 years.

Intel now and AMD also have one advantage that Nvidia currently doesn't have. They have full integration abilities between their cpu and gpu's. They can find ways to boost performance on their platforms by using either an all Intel or all AMD platform. Nvidia has to rely to GPU. So they are now at a disadvantage all around while AMD is building integration into almost all home video game consoles and Apple has built their own platform. Nvidia if they aren't careful is going to get squeezed out.

DimitrimanThey are fine with that. Nvidia only cares about high margin Ai market right now, the successor to crypto. Believe me, gamers have been the last thing on Jensen's mind for the longest time.

I still think it means something to him personally to be the best, it might not be the largest slice of their revenue, but at this point it seems it's almost personal to him to lead the way in video card tech. Having said that, it's a fantastic top end (obviously excluding price), the 4090 and 4080 are wildly good cards on specs and features, just priced as 'the best' which suuucks. I'm thinking he reckons the midrange and low end gets sold off their coat tails, and to an extent he's not wrong.

Aleksandar_038nVidia doesn't care about PC gaming anymore - now they are just milking maximum amount of money from minimum number of sold cards... They already have an exit strategy and don't believe that fighting on the PC market is important, otherwise they would not treat customers like idiots.

It does not matter what bunch of fanboys and IT fans talk on IT forum - what matters is ordinary Joe will buy in future. And trust me, gaming PC is quite low on that list. And with these prices of graphic cards, it will get lower and lower as time passes...

They do care. They just don't care to drop prices. They control 90% of the market. They don't care if they lose 5% of it while maintaining or increasing profit margins.

dlgh7I mean there are only like 170 games that support Ray Tracing and like 30-40 that support DLSS 3. So there isn't a strong case for the 4000 series at the moment really. Especially considering they are probably going to have all next gen cards on a PCI Express 5 lane and we are in the middle of a transition from DDR4 to DDR5 platforms. GPU's this gen needed to be cheaper to push down platform costs.

Those numbers, about RT and DLSS3 support, they are increasing and in those lists there are probably the games that most people want to play. So, people buy cards that will offer them better performance there. Even cards that will offer them 20fps, because that 20fps will be better than 15fps from the AMD model, even when the AMD model will offer 60 fps without RT and Nvidia model 50 fps without RT. It's stupid, but people think this way. 20fps and every setting ON, instead of fluid 60 fps and RT OFF. The power of marketing.

john_They do care. They just don't care to drop prices. They control 90% of the market. They don't care if they lose 5% of it while maintaining or increasing profit margins.

john_They do care. They just don't care to drop prices. They control 90% of the market. They don't care if they lose 5% of it while maintaining or increasing profit margins.

They are killing their own market - that is not a sign of the care. Yes, profit margins are increasing, but the number of cards sold per generation is dwindling. That means the market is dying.

And once dead, no giga-mega-gamer cards for gaming PCs anymore. AMD have tight grip on consoles, mobile gaming is separate arena, so no place for nVidia in future.

And they are OK with that, they are moving to greener pastures... Now just milking what they can while it lasts....

john_They do care. They just don't care to drop prices. They control 90% of the market. They don't care if they lose 5% of it while maintaining or increasing profit margins.


Those numbers, about RT and DLSS3 support, they are increasing and in those lists there are probably the games that most people want to play. So, people buy cards that will offer them better performance there. Even cards that will offer them 20fps, because that 20fps will be better than 15fps from the AMD model, even when the AMD model will offer 60 fps without RT and Nvidia model 50 fps without RT. It's stupid, but people think this way. 20fps and every setting ON, instead of fluid 60 fps and RT OFF. The power of marketing.

reports and pricing drops already have already proven that Nvidia isn't selling any 4070's. Even third party cards in some instances have gone down to the Founders Edition MSRP. So people aren't buying into the marketing hype.

I think you are wrong. During the mining price gouging most PC gamers, even casual ones, actually started to get informed, because they had to if they wanted to get even a remotely ok deal. Those gamers have stayed informed and have no intention of getting the one pulled over on them by Nvidia.

DimitrimanThey are fine with that. Nvidia only cares about high margin Ai market right now, the successor to crypto. Believe me, gamers have been the last thing on Jensen's mind for the longest time.

Until the next crypto wave & then the suckers "gamers" will buy these cards for ridiculous prices yet again :pimp:

Rinse & repeat ad nauseum!

Price hike, still 8GB. Will tell everyone to avoid it.

aciDevFolks, I ain't no commie, but damn, this is what happens with capitalism gone wild. You buy stuff from a company, for her you fight fanboy battles on forums, you help her grow, and what does she do? She flips you off, cheats on you with some big spender, then comes crawling back not with her tail between her legs, but with insane prices like it's hot stuff!

What we forget is that, despite our best intentions, forum talk does jack s***.

Modern GPUs have grown incredibly complex. On top of that, they require drivers which are also near impossible to get right. That translates into on oligopoly - few can manage to build GPUs today. And then the rules of an oligopoly apply - manufacturers build what they want and sell it for as much as they can get away with.

There is no good guy/bad guy here. There is no significant difference in perf/$ between Nvidia and AMD. They have both identified users are willing to pay $1,000+ for a video card, they're both happy to charge you an arm and a leg now.

This is not cheap Nvidia! :(

Aleksandar_038They are killing their own market - that is not a sign of the care. Yes, profit margins are increasing, but the number of cards sold per generation is dwindling. That means the market is dying.

And once dead, no giga-mega-gamer cards for gaming PCs anymore. AMD have tight grip on consoles, mobile gaming is separate arena, so no place for nVidia in future.

And they are OK with that, they are moving to greener pastures... Now just milking what they can while it lasts....

How do they kill their own market? People buy RTX 4000 cards and Nvidia is making very high profit margins. People also keep buying RTX 3000 cards, while those cards are 2+ years old and sell above MSRP. People who don't buy either RTX 3000 or RTX 4000, don't buy AMD or Intel cards either. Meaning they are being patient, meaning they will eventually pay Nvidia latter for a 4000 series card or a 5000 card.

Nvidia does have a future. Expect full ARM based Nvidia systems in the future running for example Steam. Why do you think Nvidia wanted to buy ARM? In 10 years we might be seeing Nvidia branded systems, the way we see Apple doing, for gaming and/or productivity. AMD does have an advantage with consoles today, but this is not granted. Microsoft is losing every fight with Playstation and they could go Nvidia some time in the future, especially if Nvidia keeps increasing it's performance advantage, just to gain an advantage over Sony.

dlgh7reports and pricing drops already have already proven that Nvidia isn't selling any 4070's. Even third party cards in some instances have gone down to the Founders Edition MSRP. So people aren't buying into the marketing hype.

I think you are wrong. During the mining price gouging most PC gamers, even casual ones, actually started to get informed, because they had to if they wanted to get even a remotely ok deal. Those gamers have stayed informed and have no intention of getting the one pulled over on them by Nvidia.

Pricing drops where? 4070 still sells at MSRP. A couple of models falling on MSRP level is good news, but still, MSRP. NOT lower.
As for informed gamers, well, from what I heard/read online, so it could be inaccurate, even RTX 4090 is selling pretty well.

8Gb :))))))))))))))))

Erano.deThis is not cheap Nvidia! :(

Huang doesn't know the meaning of the word Fear Cheap

Duke Nukem only needs 6GB GDDR.

oh, so, the equivalent price of my current card will be ... in the same performances segment (or slightly above since a 6700XT is 3070 level but can go above it ) have less vRAM, less bandwidth with the only "pros" being the TDP?

well, i am glad i did not wait ... because i would not pay 450$ for a RTX 4060 Ti with those specs and rumored performances :rolleyes: specially not for 1440/1620p where 8gb feel a bit anemic.

also Leather Jacket (or Eel-Jay) did lost his marble? Ti before non Ti, unlaunch and other "middle finger in the face"?

john_How do they kill their own market? People buy RTX 4000 cards and Nvidia is making very high profit margins. People also keep buying RTX 3000 cards, while those cards are 2+ years old and sell above MSRP. People who don't buy either RTX 3000 or RTX 4000, don't buy AMD or Intel cards either. Meaning they are being patient, meaning they will eventually pay Nvidia latter for a 4000 series card or a 5000 card.

Do you not understand economy of scale, or do you pretend to not understand? IT IS NOT ABOUT PROFIT MARGINS - they are big, we got it - too big, if any of us are asked, but it is not same if 10 000 people are having latest gen graphics, or 500 000 thousand people.

Profits for the company are the same, even sweeter if the first number is correct - but only the second one makes sure that the market is expanding and surviving. If there are 10 000 potential customers for the latest-and-greatest graphics card, there is no market for AAA game producers to invest in that market anymore - they will switch to consoles and mobile games (already happening big time). Gaming on PC will become niche, even more expensive and only for a fraction of people. And it will die out - that happened time and time again with different stuff, gaming is no different at all.

john_Nvidia does have a future. Expect full ARM based Nvidia systems in the future running for example Steam. Why do you think Nvidia wanted to buy ARM? In 10 years we might be seeing Nvidia branded systems, the way we see Apple doing, for gaming and/or productivity. AMD does have an advantage with consoles today, but this is not granted. Microsoft is losing every fight with Playstation and they could go Nvidia some time in the future, especially if Nvidia keeps increasing it's performance advantage, just to gain an advantage over Sony.

They do, very bright indeed. Just not in graphic card market for Desktop PC. Just not in "GeForce". That is a relic. I did not say that nVidia is going to fall down, I just said they are moving to greener pastures (very successfully).