Friday, June 9th 2023

TSMC Boss Responds to Reports of Brutal Corporate Culture

Mark Liu, the executive Chairman of TSMC, has responded to recent reports released by the North American media about supposedly challenging workplace conditions. Current and former employees of the company's U.S operation have taken anonymously to Glassdoor to complain about "brutal" treatment on behalf of TSMC leadership—resulting in a 27% overall approval rating, which sits unfavorably next to the scores of nearby competitors—for example Intel gets 85%, albeit from far more user submissions. Liu has made comments to a Taiwanese news outlet (Focus Taiwan) where he suggests that: "those who are unwilling to take shifts should not enter the industry, since this field isn't just about lucrative wages but rather a passion for (semiconductors)."

TSMC is trying to meet staffing targets for its Phoenix, Arizona operation, but early feedback and difficult residential living could stifle this recruitment drive. Liu thinks that his North American division will offer potential employees a workplace culture that is unlike the one set for crew back in Taiwan. He told the local reporter that American TSMC team members will have an easier time, relative to how things are run at the company's native facilities. He also states that leadership is open to discussions with NA workers, as long as company values are followed (to a tee).
Sources: Tom's Hardware, Focus Taiwan
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56 Comments on TSMC Boss Responds to Reports of Brutal Corporate Culture

#26
sepheronx
lexluthermiesterAllow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight. And good luck trying to get people to rotate from days to night and back every other week. I sure as hell wouldn't do it no matter how much money they offered.

What they need to do is run 3 6hour shifts every day with no over-night shift. 5x6hour days? I'd go for that, especially given how mind-numbingly repetitive that kind of work is. The key with this kind of schedule is that you hire more people for shorter shifts and spread those shifts out. Offer a fair wage and you'll have people lining up to take those jobs! Worker retention will be very high! This is NOT Asia, we are not willing to work ourselves into an early grave.

@Mr Liu
Change your scheduling/shift system and adapt to the needs of American worker or go suck a hot steamy turd. Don't blame US for YOUR inability to understand OUR culture.
I told my boss that when we get some 10 day in a row weeks of working that I would just quit, I was lucky I never had to do it.

Working 12hrs a day for 6 days, I would rather just be dead. What kind of life is that?
Posted on Reply
#27
lexluthermiester
sepheronxWorking 12hrs a day for 6 days, I would rather just be dead. What kind of life is that?
Right?
Posted on Reply
#28
sepheronx
lexluthermiesterRight?
now the question is, what days are the management working?

I noticed here where I am, maybe different experience, is that they make us monkeys work our asses off, they sit at home, work from home, and then pat themselves on the back when "targets are very high!"

Its insulting and its getting worst. I guess jokes on me, I should have worked harder or massaged more ego's in order to get ahead.
Posted on Reply
#29
Fourstaff
Work and management culture in Asia and US is so different that it will take some time for both sides to adjust to each other. Its not going to be a straightforward problem to solve since the Asian bosses will be of the opinion that "Taiwanese workforce has superior commitment, Americans will never amount to anything with their current work ethic". Add a layer of "US pressured us to be here, now that we are here we can't find good workers anyway", you can see how it becomes a toxic soup.

As for shift workers, its not uncommon for 12/12hr back to backs in factory/healthcare/other 24hr operations. The hours will be balanced out with appropriate rest periods e.g. 12hrs for 7 days (=84 hours), and then 7 days off for a total of 42hr/week on average. 8/8/8hr shifts is a lot harder to schedule, by the time you reach 6/6/6/6hr shifts workers will be working most days to make up the hours.
Posted on Reply
#30
AlwaysHope
R-T-BLol how'd you draw "snowflake problems" into this. Most "snowflake" types are strongly for labor rights and it's not an either/or scenario regardless.
But the MSM loves to portray "snowflakes" with all their lifestyle problems before promoting workers rights.
lexluthermiesterHere's an idea Mr Liu: Utilize shifts that Americans are WILLING to work.

Forcing workers into 5 12hour shifts per week, rotating nights and days every week are NOT acceptable scheduling schemes. If YOU wouldn't work that schedule, don't insult the people who won't either, Moron. I don't know how things work in Taiwan, but over here, if you don't respect your employees, you don't HAVE employees.
Yes good point. Shift work like that has serious health repercussions on each individual worker. Humans are not designed to have alternate day then nights on a rotating weekly basis ( let alone even days for that matter). It's the stuff of health nightmares - literally speaking. A one way ticket to an early grave.
Posted on Reply
#31
Space Lynx
Astronaut
lexluthermiesterHere's an idea Mr Liu: Utilize shifts that Americans are WILLING to work.

Forcing workers into 5 12hour shifts per week, rotating nights and days every week are NOT acceptable scheduling schemes. If YOU wouldn't work that schedule, don't insult the people who won't either, Moron. I don't know how things work in Taiwan, but over here, if you don't respect your employees, you don't HAVE employees.
if that schedule is real, then wow... that is a horrible quality of life.

I always tell young people to become nurses in USA. then after 2 years of experience go back for 1 year to get the Nurse Practitioner license and become a traveling nurse, 160k a year and you work 3 days a week by age 26. 4 day weekends most of the time and money to spend to enjoy them.
AlwaysHopeBut the MSM loves to portray "snowflakes" with all their lifestyle problems before promoting workers rights.


Yes good point. Shift work like that has serious health repercussions on each individual worker. Humans are not designed to have alternate day then nights on a rotating weekly basis ( let alone even days for that matter). It's the stuff of health nightmares - literally speaking. A one way ticket to an early grave.
The science does all prove this, I agree. I used to be a night owl, but I am not anymore, my body is much happier waking with the sunrise.
Posted on Reply
#32
R-T-B
lexluthermiesterAllow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight
It's scientifically less productive than lesser working shifts at that point. Nonsensical really.
Posted on Reply
#33
lexluthermiester
Space Lynxif that schedule is real, then wow... that is a horrible quality of life.
It's real. Believe it. Asia is very different from the rest of the world.
Posted on Reply
#34
R-T-B
lexluthermiesterIt's real. Believe it. Asia is very different from the rest of the world.
I'm hoping the recent studies that show reduced work hours actually increase productivity (to a point anyways) start to get realized globally, but it seems corperations in general are very slow to adapt to this idea.
Posted on Reply
#35
Dr. Dro
Especially East Asian companies. Remember, they install nets and all that. They're there for a reason, they overwork their employees to the bone and many opt to commit.
Posted on Reply
#36
Solaris17
Super Dainty Moderator
Lets play nice :)
Posted on Reply
#37
R-T-B
Dr. DroEspecially East Asian companies. Remember, they install nets and all that. They're there for a reason, they overwork their employees to the bone and many opt to commit.
I would argue it's a global issue (long work hours) and the asian "suicide" issue is driven more by population density issues than the work culture, but regardless, we do agree asia is worse off in general work hours wise.
Solaris17Lets play nice :)
But sometimes the clamps hurt so good (be nice, I love you).
Posted on Reply
#38
Broken Processor
TSMC shocked it can't run it Arizona factory like a sweat shop.
Posted on Reply
#39
Unregistered
Prima.VeraTaiwan, China, Korea and specially Japan.
In Asia there is still the medieval working style mentality that workers are just soulless drones, hired only to perform tasks, without questioning, personality, or any other kind of life.
In Japan they even said -the workers actually (yeah, brainwashing is the finest), that family comes 3rd, after the Boss and after the Company or the work place.
So no wonder that a$$holes like this TSMC boss are making those statements with a visible frustration, that he might need to offer "special treatment" to US workers, something that instead of being the norm, he consider an exception from the rules. His rules.
Because in lots of underdeveloped countries (such as the ones you listed to which I add the US) the government just doesn't protect employees, especially that employees are always in a weaker position compared to employer, and need stronger laws to protect them.
#40
R-T-B
Xex360Because in lots of underdeveloped countries (such as the ones you listed to which I add the US) the government just doesn't protect employees, especially that employees are always in a weaker position compared to employer, and need stronger laws to protect them.
I'm not sure by what criteria one could call Japan underdeveloped... it literally has the largest city on earth as it's capitol, and is pretty damn wealthy.

The US likewise has political issues, and infrastructure is aging in parts, but it is still pretty damn developed compared to the rest of the world.

Heck most of the countries on that list are arguably pretty developed, with the exception of maybe PARTS of China, which do remain very rural.

I will agree though that in employee->employer protections, the US and those countries do belong on a short list of pretty bad nations.
Posted on Reply
#41
droopyRO
lexluthermiesterAllow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight. And good luck trying to get people to rotate from days to night and back every other week. I sure as hell wouldn't do it no matter how much money they offered.

What they need to do is run 3 6hour shifts every day with no over-night shift. 5x6hour days? I'd go for that, especially given how mind-numbingly repetitive that kind of work is. The key with this kind of schedule is that you hire more people for shorter shifts and spread those shifts out. Offer a fair wage and you'll have people lining up to take those jobs! Worker retention will be very high! This is NOT Asia, we are not willing to work ourselves into an early grave.
So you never worked night shifts or 12 hours shift ? ha! :)
You have 2 possibilities for 24/7/365. 2x 12 hour shifts or 3x 8hour shifts. 9:00-17:00, 17:00-01:00, 01:00-09:00. Two workers/shift, you work one day you have a day off. I have had this schedule for a lot of years now.

For me it is way better than working 5 days a week from 9-17:00, and it suits me fine, you work ~15 days a month, with two out of four weekends off and holidays are split, if you work Christmas you are off for New Year and vice-versa same for Easter. Also people like firefighters, doctors/nurses, police and other LEO's, gas and electricity, mass-media, army, food production etc. We all work like that, not just factory workers.
Posted on Reply
#42
kapone32
For all those that thing that American work is different should talk to people that talk in the rail industry in the US. Especially those that work for some Companies that have been in the News recently. This is not new though. Did no one else watch the DOc that showed Workers at Foxconn working 16 hr shifts so that we could keep the Iphone going?
Posted on Reply
#43
mechtech
Well who knows. As someone who works mon-fri and has for most of my life................I actually prefer 12-hr shifts...........more days off throughout the year........if its still 84-hr 2-week schedule.

My wife is a nurse, she works 12-hr shifts. mon-tues days, wed-thurs off, fri-sat-sun days, mon-tues off, wed-thurs days, fri-sat-sun off, then repeat 2 weeks of nightshifts. I did the same schedule in metalurgical plant on production crew.........the factory runs 24-7-365. In overseas mining I was 6 weeks in and 3 weeks out aka 42-12hr shifts in a row.

Now as for immigrants coming from taiwan to arizona...........well the arid sands of arizona may not be as welcoming as taiwan's weather??

Always teething issues when first starting out.....
Posted on Reply
#44
R-T-B
mechtechAlways teething issues when first starting out.....
No matter where you travel, that's the darn truth I think.
Posted on Reply
#45
R0H1T
Dr. DroEspecially East Asian companies. Remember, they install nets and all that. They're there for a reason, they overwork their employees to the bone and many opt to commit.
That part is highly exaggerated, except Hon Hai do you remember any other corporation being named in such a fiasco? Better still any actual evidence of that being widespread, also how would installing safety nets actually work in muti storied buildings?
kapone32For all those that thing that American work is different should talk to people that talk in the rail industry in the US. Especially those that work for some Companies that have been in the News recently. This is not new though. Did no one else watch the DOc that showed Workers at Foxconn working 16 hr shifts so that we could keep the Iphone going?
That's true everywhere in the world & a lot of this work culture, being massively different in the West, is BS. How come you're relaxing child labor laws in many parts of the US, going back to pre industrialization era are we :rolleyes:

The fact is those who are desperate for work/jobs/money are exploited everywhere ~ whether it be for 16 hours a day here or less than minimum wage in the US or anything similar in the EU, Africa etc.
Posted on Reply
#46
Unregistered
R-T-BI'm not sure by what criteria one could call Japan underdeveloped... it literally has the largest city on earth as it's capitol, and is pretty damn wealthy.

The US likewise has political issues, and infrastructure is aging in parts, but it is still pretty damn developed compared to the rest of the world.

Heck most of the countries on that list are arguably pretty developed, with the exception of maybe PARTS of China, which do remain very rural.

I will agree though that in employee->employer protections, the US and those countries do belong on a short list of pretty bad nations.
I judge development by how a country is doing to improve its population life conditions (good healthcare, free education, laws to protect consumers and employees, paid vacation, reasonable work time...), and all these countries fail miserably, but I would say Japan is much better than the US or Korea, but still underdeveloped.
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#47
Bomby569
R-T-BI'm not sure by what criteria one could call Japan underdeveloped... it literally has the largest city on earth as it's capitol, and is pretty damn wealthy.
Tokyo is not the largest city on earth, not even in Asia, it's not even top 10. It's the largest metropolitan area, not the largest city
Posted on Reply
#49
lexluthermiester
R-T-BI'm hoping the recent studies that show reduced work hours actually increase productivity (to a point anyways) start to get realized globally, but it seems corperations in general are very slow to adapt to this idea.
This is a very real thing. 6hour shifts with a 15 to 30 minute break in the middle(for a total of 6 hours work time + the break) seem to be the sweet spot for ultimate worker productivity, moral and job satisfaction. The more companies that adopt this shift scheme, the better whole industries will be, including TSMC.
droopyROSo you never worked night shifts or 12 hours shift ? ha! :)
Oh I have. For a number of years I worked 12 and 13 hour shifts for 5 to 6 days a week. And I'll NEVER do it again. Granted, I never had to switch days and nights every week, and never would have.
Posted on Reply
#50
R-T-B
Bomby569Tokyo is not the largest city on earth, not even in Asia, it's not even top 10. It's the largest metropolitan area, not the largest city
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities

By population in 2018 estimates it is indeed #1, at least if you include things outside the immediate city proper, which we usually do.
Posted on Reply
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