AleksandarKLeading equipment providers like ASML, Applied Materials, and Lam Research charge similar prices globally

Although US labor costs are roughly three times higher than in Taiwan, the heavy automation in modern fabs means that labor represents less than 2% of the overall cost.

thesmokingmanTSMC will eventually move their base here. They're on borrowed time, move or get taken out.

"Additional logistics for Fab 21, including the return of wafers to Taiwan for dicing, testing, and packaging, add complexity but only minimally affect the overall expense. "

While there is roughly a 200% difference between the US and Taiwan.

Although US labor costs are roughly three times higher than in Taiwan..

bitsandbootsGiven that TSMC has fabs in multiple countries (not just taiwan, but china & japan) the comments from Chang about the challenges of doing business elsewhere such as the USA came across to me as a combination of cultural comfort level and work/life/salary balance of slave labor versus not.

TheLostSwedeSorry what? The people that work at TSMC are some of the best paid in Taiwan. Yes, they work long shifts, but they also get paid for it. I can't speak for xina, but in Taiwan they make a lot more than even CEOs in other companies on the island. There's a reason why people want to work for them. Yes, it doesn't compare to some stupid salaries in the US, but you're not going to earn even close as much as you can earn at TSMC in other companies in Taiwan.
This is from 2022.
taiwannews.com.tw/news/4825988

bitsandbootsI don't see why they wouldn't be the best paid in Taiwan! They play a critical role to the island beyond.
But, when I said "work/life/salary balance of slave labor versus not." I meant that Chang was complaining previously that he thought TSMC USA wouldn't work well because something along the lines of "the Americans don't work as hard or for as long each day".
I found such comments silly, mostly about patriotism of Taiwan or ethnocentrism. Like yeah how horrible that people don't want to work excessive hours, perhaps different cultures have different work/life balance. The USA isn't even a bastion of work/life balance anyway. In the end, given the high automation of TSMC, I wouldn't be surprised if TSMC found success in the countries that were perceived to be a bad fit.

TheLostSwedeOne fab in the US, one more planned vs. 10 in Taiwan, plus two more planned. Sure they'll move their base to the US...
Also, you clearly do not undertand the Taiwanese mentality.

Ok, to be fair, they have another fab they bought in the US as well.

bitsandbootsTo me its the same old game - you don't need to restrict your business only to places that rely upon abusive, cheap labor to make money - you can automate instead.

Spoiler

thesmokingmanThey're on borrowed time, move or get taken out.

lexluthermiesterUm, I might be missing some context. Please explain more.

thesmokingmanasiatimes.com/2025/03/taiwan-must-act-before-china-decides-its-fate/

lexluthermiesterAh, I can see what you mean. I just don't see that happening. China has been doing some crazy and unwise things, but such a thing? Just don't see an invasion happening. China simply isn't that dumb or foolish. However, crazier things have happened in recent years, so who knows at all.

thesmokingmanLmao, they will take back Taiwan. It's just a matter of time.

thesmokingmanEven Elon admits this.

thesmokingmanAnd this decision has kind of already been made for Chang. Don't move and get tariff'd to hell and eventually lose your silicon shield.

lexluthermiesterUm, I might be missing some context. Please explain more.

lexluthermiesterAh, I can see what you mean. Thank you. I just don't see that happening. China has been doing some crazy and unwise things, but such a brazen move? Just don't see an invasion happening. China simply isn't that dumb or foolish. However, crazier things have happened in recent years, so who knows at all.

lexluthermiesterWe differ in opinion there. Western allied nations will not tolerate the same thing happening with Taiwan that happened with Ukraine. If China is looking to get stomped into the ground like bugs, let them try.

As brilliant as Elon can be, he's not a always right as he, himself, has proven..

Yeah, there's some merit to that point, but not for the invasion threat reason.

N3utroThere was a civil war in mainland China in 1927 to 1936 which resumed from 1945 to 1949. It opposed the People's Republic of China (PRC - communists) to the Republic of China (ROC - centrist/rightist party) . ROC lost and fled to independant Taiwan, ruling as an autoritative power at the beginning until transitioning to democracy since 1988.

Taiwan is only 100 miles away from mainland China. PRC view Taiwan as a leftover from civil war. Now that they consolidated power on the mainland they want to finish what they started during the civil war against the ROC = ending ROC and incorporating Taiwan into China territory.

Taiwan is backed by the US so they cant do this freely but due to the close geographic proximity of Taiwan and China it's probably only a matter of time until they make their move. Also US shielding taiwan is in great part due to the world dependance to TSMC, which is weakening due to the strategic production beeing shifted in the US.

lexluthermiesterWe differ in opinion there. Western allied nations will not tolerate the same thing happening with Taiwan that happened with Ukraine. If China is looking to get stomped into the ground like bugs, let them try.

As brilliant as Elon can be, he's not a always right as he, himself, has proven..

Yeah, there's some merit to that point, but not for the invasion threat reason.

thesmokingmanYou might be a little crazy if you think Trump will start WW3 for TSMC.

RandallFlaggYou could just read what China's been saying.

lexluthermiesterWhat they say is of no relevance. What they can and will do is at hand. Crazy though they may be, they are not fools. They will not pick a fight they know they can't win. It's as simple as that.

N3utroI think the issue is proximity.

N3utroIf China decides to blitzkrieg Taiwan with naval and aerial forces i dont think the US will have enough time to respond with as much forces.

N3utroPlus they have to protect South Korea and Japan as well.

N3utroTime will tell.

lexluthermiesterWW3? No. China is not that foolish. Forceful Naval blockade? Yes. Trump is and would be that bold and China knows this. China will not pick that kind of fight while Trump is in office. For all the faults of the Chinese gov, they know when to pick their battle. They will not pick this one. Not anytime soon anyway.


What they say is of no relevance. What they can and will do is at hand. Crazy though they may be, they are not fools. They will not pick a fight they know they can't win. It's as simple as that.