Yeah...we saw how well and super natural that was during the presentation.....im not against this at all but man...its rough right now.

They still don't get it, people don't want to do any of this. It was the same with motion controls and why those failed, no one wants to move about on their couch. And it's kind of the same with VR as well and why that has still not taken off in the way people expected it to.

Vya DomusThey still don't get it, people don't want to do any of this. It was the same with motion controls and why those failed, no one wants to move about on their couch. And it's kind of the same with VR as well and why that has still not taken off in the way people expected it to.

Agreed, I really don't want to talk to NPCs.

Me: Hello, can you tell me which way to the armory good sir?

NPC: Your amazon order has shipped and should arrive by 9PM.

NPC: There are new recommendations for you, would you like to see them?

Vya DomusThey still don't get it, people don't want to do any of this. It was the same with motion controls and why those failed, no one wants to move about on their couch. And it's kind of the same with VR as well and why that has still not taken off in the way people expected it to.

?? Many of the top selling Wii games were one's that made extensive use of motion controls like Wii sports and Wii sports resort. VR has also grown at a pace faster than the PC gaming / console market did in the same timeframe. Clearly there is a market.

BArmsAgreed, I really don't want to talk to NPCs.

Yeah, I already get to do that on reddit every day

Yeah I don't want to get to know NPCs, that makes it tremendously more difficult to off them for not bowing to my greatness.

WorringlyIndifferentYeah, I already get to do that on reddit every day

Five years ago I would have laughed at the thought of this. Today it is unfortunately true.

WorringlyIndifferentYeah, I already get to do that on reddit every day

Not just Reddit.

Smartphones gave everyone a voice but they didn't make the Internet a better place. They just generated more noise.

It's a shame that ML technology won't be used to filter out the garbage and improve the signal-to-noise ratio. There's little monetization in that.

The Internet has become a mental health ghetto. In the real world, there are contextual clues that someone is to be avoided. And you can move away from them so they are out of earshot. On the Web -- especially in a text-based chat -- everyone is equidistant from you.

This Nvidia announcement is mostly about making the conversation a little less stilted. They still have to be programmed in with parameters that narrow the conversation topics to enhance gameplay and the storyline. It's not like you should be able to discuss Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity with a butcher in 16th century Scotland.

BArmsAgreed, I really don't want to talk to NPCs.

Talk to? No. But have written comversations with? Absolutely, in some games at least.

FrickTalk to? No. But have written comversations with? Absolutely, in some games at least.

Yes, talking with them using keyboard will be fun actually.

ZoneDymoYeah...we saw how well and super natural that was during the presentation.....im not against this at all but man...its rough right now.

It's likely that the initial attempts at this will be amusingly poor but the technology will improve and game devs will learn how to leverage it better over time.

Just like pretty much any mature technology (and not just video games).

I expect to see plenty of memes when this feature first rolls out.

nice feature for somebody wanting to became npc himself

evernessince?? Many of the top selling Wii games were one's that made extensive use of motion controls like Wii sports and Wii sports resort. VR has also grown at a pace faster than the PC gaming / console market did in the same timeframe. Clearly there is a market.

Gimmick, most Wii's that were sold because of the Wii sports craze ended up collecting dust for years. Not to mention that this was the first time consumers got introduced in mass to motion controls for the first time, people thought it was cool because it was something new then they realized it's not something you'd actually want to use long term, the colossal failure of Kinect years later showed this, as well as sixaxis , ps move and whatever other contraption these companies tried to come up with to recreate Wii's success, what they didn't understand is that they "succeeded" simply because they were the first. Even Nintendo themselves moved away from motion controls because they knew it was mostly a dead end.

Another example is how gyros in smartphones are underutilized in games, there was a time when it felt like almost every game had motion controls nowadays almost none have it.

Putting any technology in a game just for the sake of including it as a bullet point on a marketing webpage isn't the best idea.

There are appropriate and very useful implementations for things like gyroscopic control. It's up to the developers to choose these technologies wisely. With new technologies there are learning curves, both for the developer and the end user.

I've tried VR in various forms over 25 years and I currently own an Oculus Rift S VR HMD. There are pros and cons with this technology and a lot of it has to do with how it is implemented.

For sure there will be some developers who put this ML speech NPC stuff in game titles where it doesn't improve the game one bit. But at some point, someone will put out something where people will say "That's pretty neat, I wish ____ had this."

Vya DomusGimmick, most Wii's that were sold because of the Wii sports craze ended up collecting dust for years. Not to mention that this was the first time consumers got introduced in mass to motion controls for the first time, people thought it was cool because it was something new then they realized it's not something you'd actually want to use long term, the colossal failure of Kinect years later showed this, as well as sixaxis , ps move and whatever other contraption these companies tried to come up with to recreate Wii's success, what they didn't understand is that they "succeeded" simply because they were the first. Even Nintendo themselves moved away from motion controls because they knew it was mostly a dead end.

Wii sports sold 82.9 million copies. You are in essence saying that 85% (Wii sports had that high of an attach rate) of Wii consoles ending up collecting dust, which is complete nonsense. The Wii was one of Nintendo's best selling consoles. The Wii sold well throughout it's lifetime, sales did not die off as you imply.

Kinect failed because it both had no good games and had many technical limitations Not because people didn't want more interactive games. Ditto goes for the PS Move and Sixaxis, which were downright aweful. The PS Move in particular is one of the biggest complaints people had with the PSVR1. The lighthouse system created by Valve was and Oculus's camera based systems were / are vastly superior.

Vya DomusAnother example is how gyros in smartphones are underutilized in games, there was a time when it felt like almost every game had motion controls nowadays almost none have it.

/facepalm

"A gyroscope is a device used for measuring or maintaining orientation and angular velocity."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope

It's impossible to track an object in 3D space with a gyro alone as you imply, hence why not a single company from Oculus to Valve to Apple does it. A gyroscope can assist a tracking system if it's bad at rotational velocity but the primary tracking will be done through cameras (oculus), IR (Wii), lasers (valve), or any other technology capable of tracking an object in 3D space.

Nintendo's motion controls succeeded because like most Nintendo consoles, people had fun playing that games. I don't understand why you hate motion controls to the point where you have to go and try to rewrite history. VR sales hit 38 million this year, a increase from 24 million last year. On top of that Apple is releasing a mixed reality headset. Clearly there is potential for the technology.

FrickTalk to? No. But have written comversations with? Absolutely, in some games at least.

I can see this working in something like GTA for better NPCs or for better weighted characters in CIV.

evernessinceWii sports sold 82.9 million copies. You are in essence saying that 85% (Wii sports had that high of an attach rate) of Wii consoles ending up collecting dust

You are just proving my point, outside of Wii sports no one was itching to buy a Wii because of motion controls.

It's impossible to track an object in 3D space with a gyro alone as you imply, hence why not a single company from Oculus to Valve to Apple does it.

I am talking about smartphones dude, it was just another example of a platform where motion control are available but aren't used.

Vya DomusI am talking about smartphones dude, it was just another example of a platform where motion control are available but aren't used.

Again gyroscopes, as already pointed out, are not motion controls. It should go without saying that devices like smartphones don't use motion controls when they are not capable of them in the first place.

If you don't understand what motion controls are, you should not be in this argument in the first place.

evernessinceAgain gyroscopes, as already pointed out, are not motion controls. It should go without saying that devices like smartphones don't use motion controls when they are not capable of them in the first place.

If you don't understand what motion controls are, you should not be in this argument in the first place.

What are you talking about, gyros have been used for motion controls in phones for more than a decade at this point.

evernessinceAgain gyroscopes, as already pointed out, are not motion controls. It should go without saying that devices like smartphones don't use motion controls when they are not capable of them in the first place.

If you don't understand what motion controls are, you should not be in this argument in the first place.

I worked with 3 axis gyroscopes and accelerometers 200Hz update rate for intertial guidance with GPS correction. Most smart phones have at least 2 axis gyro and accelerometers, but my Wii U used gyros and accelerometers in its motion controllers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_controller

SteevoI worked with 3 axis gyroscopes and accelerometers 200Hz update rate for intertial guidance with GPS correction. Most smart phones have at least 2 axis gyro and accelerometers, but my Wii U used gyros and accelerometers in its motion controllers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_controller

The Wii and Wii U uses IR for primary motion control. The Pro controllers and the Wii U controller included a gyro to better detect angular velocity. Gyros can assist motion control but the main tracking is done by something else.

Inertial guidance uses GPS, accelerometers, and gyros to dead reckon the position of an object. The problem is that it is not accurate enough to be used for motion controls, hence why not a single vendors uses it nor is it considered a viable motion control system.

"Even the best accelerometers, with a standard error of 10 micro-g, would accumulate a 50-meter (164-ft) error within 17 minutes."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation_system

It's infeasible even with equipment that is far more costly than is reasonable for consumer products. It should go without saying that 164 ft drift is not acceptable. Not even 1/200th of that figure is acceptable for motion controls.

Often times inertial guidance systems are supplemented by barometric altimeters and magnetic sensors to offset these inaccuracies. Even still drift is far too significant a problem for this system to be remotely feasible for workable motion controls. Hence why consoles like the Wii and Wii U primarily relied on IR sensors with other instruments improving the accuracy. That's considering that the Wii and Wii U's tracking it relatively primitive compared to lighthouse or Meta's Camera Array, both of which offer far superior accuracy.

Vya DomusWhat are you talking about, gyros have been used for motion controls in phones for more than a decade at this point.

Phone orientation tracking, shake detection, or other basic gesture tracking is not motion controls. Their capability and precision is much lower than what could be feasibly used to control games or apps to a point where it would be a pleasant experience. Phone apps don't utilize motion controls because the phone doesn't support them, at least not to degree that motion controls are defined on Wikipeida, which is really a baseline for them to be useful to apps / the end user.

evernessincePhone orientation tracking, shake detection, or other basic gesture tracking is not motion controls.

They're still motion controls and they've still been used in games, have you been living under a rock ?

Vya DomusThey're still motion controls and they've still been used in games, have you been living under a rock ?

By wikipedia's definition they are not. You clearly have your own definition of the term, which is ultimately what you are arguing over. I honestly could care less what your definition of them is.

evernessinceBy wikipedia's definition they are not. You clearly have your own definition of the term, which is ultimately what you are arguing over. I honestly could care less what your definition of them is.

Utter nonsense, why you are choosing to die on this hill is beyond me, makes you look like you didn't even read your beloved definition.

Here's wikipedia's definition:

In video games and entertainment systems, a motion controller is a type of game controller that uses accelerometers or other sensors to track motion and provide input.

Phones do have accelerometers and other sensors aka gyros, to track motion and provide input to games.