I'm talking about these clocks which fev posted, these are base clocks & from what I know it doesn't go that low except in power saver on desktop systems ~


So as far I'm concerned pretty disingenuous to post these for best case scenario wrt idle power!

R0H1TI'm talking about these clocks which fev posted, these are base clocks & from what I know it doesn't go that low except in power saver on desktop systems ~

Ah, those clocks! Now that you mentioned it, 2300 MHz on the P-cores with 71% max core usage does look a bit weird, especially with E-cores clocking way higher than that. :wtf:

R0H1TI'm talking about these clocks which fev posted, these are base clocks & from what I know it doesn't go that low except in power saver on desktop systems ~


So as far I'm concerned pretty disingenuous to post these for best case scenario wrt idle power!

this is what i said before intel its simple as that king in low idle power
person who said that low power during gamign amd makes up for it should make that tedious calculation based on
a preferred setting for a 150-200 6core cpu who is on 14 hours 365 days with 15%-20% gaming
compared to a high end set up or med spec set up amd with no care for power consumption
i have nothing against amd seriously consider getting an amd cpu

R0H1TI'm talking about these clocks which fev posted, these are base clocks & from what I know it doesn't go that low except in power saver on desktop systems ~


So as far I'm concerned pretty disingenuous to post these for best case scenario wrt idle power!

This is with balanced power plan, and power draw doesn't really change between balanced and full power savings.

Can you show the minimum processor state from the power plan then, alongside the hwinfo readings at idle?

fevgatospower draw doesn't really change between balanced and full power savings.

It most definitely does but as usual YMWV.

R0H1TCan you show the minimum processor state from the power plan then?

It most definitely does but as usual YMWV.

Sure when I'm home. It doesn't drop power draw for me, from 3w it goes down to 2w. It's negligible. What I've noticed though is that there is noticeable delay with power saving, so I'm using balanced instead

Chippendalethis is what i said before intel its simple as that king in low idle power

Sure, but what's with that 2.9 GHz max on the P-cores?

Chippendaleperson who said that low power during gamign amd makes up for it should make that tedious calculation based on
a preferred setting for a 150-200 6core cpu who is on 14 hours 365 days with 15%-20% gaming
compared to a high end set up or med spec set up amd with no care for power consumption
i have nothing against amd seriously consider getting an amd cpu

Give me a day, and I'll do the calculations for you (I've got sleep and then work right ahead of me).

R0H1TCan you show the minimum processor state from the power plan then, alongside the hwinfo readings at idle?

It most definitely does but as usual YMWV.

I'm more concerned about the maximum state. 2.9 GHz P-cores? Hmm...

AusWolfI'm more concerned about the maximum state. 2.9 GHz P-cores? Hmm...

Whats concerning about it? I was just browsing the web so it doesn't boost, it's normal.

fevgatosWhats concerning about it? I was just browsing the web so it doesn't boost, it's normal.

Yeah, but max core/thread usage shows 98.2% (when your browser loaded the web page, I assume). It should boost in such cases.

AusWolfYeah, but max core/thread usage shows 98.2% (when your browser loaded the web page, I assume). It should boost in such cases.

It might have and hwinfo didn't catch it. I have it polling at 500ms. I'll be back soon so I'll check and post

AusWolfYeah, but max core/thread usage shows 98.2% (when your browser loaded the web page, I assume). It should boost in such cases.

Here you go, it polls every 200 ms now, so it catches the frequency spikes I guess. Balanced power plan still

R0H1TCan you show the minimum processor state from the power plan then, alongside the hwinfo readings at idle?

It most definitely does but as usual YMWV.

And here you go, it's not at idle i have a video playing and some tabs + discord

Like I said minimum load is till 5% not sure if that was the case prior to ADL or not, but that's why you have such low idle power. I can get to low teens for the (14nm) zen+ 2700 I can test it on.

R0H1TLike I said minimum load is till 5% not sure if that was the case prior to ADL or not, but that's why you have such low idle power. I can get to low teens for the (14nm) zen+ 2700 I can test it on.

That's the default power plan man, it's the same on my 6900hs laptop, 5% is the minimum.

R0H1TLike I said minimum load is till 5% not sure if that was the case prior to ADL or not, but that's why you have such low idle power. I can get to low teens for the (14nm) zen+ 2700 I can test it on.

Does it matter, though? I haven't noticed it make much difference, to be honest.

fevgatosThat's the default power plan man, it's the same on my 6900hs laptop, 5% is the minimum.

And I said this should've changed post ADL for desktops, because I don't remember it being this low. The whole point of P+E config was to save on power initially & the major way to do it is of course lowering the clocks.

AusWolfDoes it matter, though?

Only if you want to save 5-10W on idle power. It doesn't matter to me because I already have pretty much everything else, wrt power saving, enabled in BIOS & with a slight overclock I lose stability when the CPU clocks down even with adaptive voltage.

R0H1TOnly if you want to save 5-10W on idle power. It doesn't matter to me because I already have pretty much everything else, wrt power saving, enabled in BIOS & with a slight overclock I lose stability when the CPU clocks down even with adaptive voltage.

So what does it do exactly? Does it lower clocks below a certain usage?

On idle you will get the cores to go down as much as 400MHz on some CPU's depends on the CPU of course. So outside of core parking this saves the most power.

AusWolfDoes it lower clocks below a certain usage?

Yes & that depends on your power plan.

Chippendaleperson who said that low power during gamign amd makes up for it should make that tedious calculation based on
a preferred setting for a 150-200 6core cpu who is on 14 hours 365 days with 15%-20% gaming
compared to a high end set up or med spec set up amd with no care for power consumption

Righty... I'll go by TPU review data to make life simple: the Ryzen 5 7600 consumes 47 W on average while gaming. The Core i9-13900K consumes 143 W average while gaming. The Core i7-13700K consumes 107 W average while gaming. Unfortunately, there is no TPU review data on idle power consumption (or I couldn't find it with my after-work reading skills), but I'll assume 20 W on the 7600 and 5 W on the two Intel chips.

"15-20% gaming" during a 14-hour uptime means anywhere between 2.1 and 2.8 hours, so I'll just average it out to 2.5 hours. That means 11.5 hours of idle running time.

So then, the Ryzen CPU uses (47*2.5)+(20*11.5)= 347.5 Wh per day. In a 31-day month, that's 10.772 kWh, which costs £3.23 on my current tariff.
The Core i9 uses (143*2.5)+(5*11.5)= 415 Wh per day. In a 31-day month, that's 12.865 kWh, or £3.86.
The Core i7 uses (107*2.5)+(5*11.5)= 325 Wh per day. In a 31-day month, that's 10.075 kWh, or £3.02.
I ran the above calculation on the R9 7950X3D for shits and giggles, and I got 370 Wh for a day, 11.47 kWh for a month, and £3.44 on your bill.

Conclusion 1: The Ryzen 5 7600 eats 6% more power in your scenario than the Core i7, but the Core i9 eats 20% more than the R5, or 12% more than the 7950X3D. Idle power consumption doesn't mean crap if the word efficiency flies out of the window while gaming. Ideally, you'd need a good balance, but either a good idle, or a good load power can compensate for the other, depending on the ratio of idle/load time.

Conclusion 2: We're talking about pennies on a monthly bill, so who gives a f*? ;)

AusWolfRighty... I'll go by TPU review data to make life simple: the Ryzen 5 7600 consumes 47 W on average while gaming. The Core i9-13900K consumes 143 W average while gaming. The Core i7-13700K consumes 107 W average while gaming. Unfortunately, there is no TPU review data on idle power consumption (or I couldn't find it with my after-work reading skills), but I'll assume 20 W on the 7600 and 5 W on the two Intel chips.

"15-20% gaming" during a 14-hour uptime means anywhere between 2.1 and 2.8 hours, so I'll just average it out to 2.5 hours. That means 11.5 hours of idle running time.

So then, the Ryzen CPU uses (47*2.5)+(20*11.5)= 347.5 Wh per day. In a 31-day month, that's 10.772 kWh, which costs £3.23 on my current tariff.
The Core i9 uses (143*2.5)+(5*11.5)= 415 Wh per day. In a 31-day month, that's 12.865 kWh, or £3.86.
The Core i7 uses (107*2.5)+(5*11.5)= 325 Wh per day. In a 31-day month, that's 10.075 kWh, or £3.02.
I ran the above calculation on the R9 7950X3D for shits and giggles, and I got 370 Wh for a day, 11.47 kWh for a month, and £3.44 on your bill.

Conclusion 1: The Ryzen 5 7600 eats 6% more power in your scenario than the Core i7, but the Core i9 eats 20% more than the R5, or 12% more than the 7950X3D. Idle power consumption doesn't mean crap if the word efficiency flies out of the window while gaming. Ideally, you'd need a good balance, but either a good idle, or a good load power can compensate for the other, depending on the ratio of idle/load time.

Conclusion 2: We're talking about pennies on a monthly bill, so who gives a f*? ;)

The question is, how much does your 7800x 3d pull while doing simple tasks like browsing the web?

The gaming power numbers are kinda meaningless cause TPU is using a 4090 at 1080p.

fevgatosThe question is, how much does your 7800x 3d pull while doing simple tasks like browsing the web?

This is with Steam, GOG Galaxy, the EA app, Task Manager, GPU-z, and the Wargaming.net client running in the background, and two tabs open in Chrome: one TPU and the other one playing Youtube.


"Balanced" power plan, I might add.

fevgatosThe gaming power numbers are kinda meaningless cause TPU is using a 4090 at 1080p.

So that's pretty much the maximum we can expect from these CPUs. In more reasonable scenarios, the differences should be even smaller.

AusWolfThis is with Steam, GOG Galaxy, the EA app, Task Manager, GPU-z, and the Wargaming.net client running in the background, and two tabs open in Chrome: one TPU and the other one playing Youtube.



So that's pretty much the maximum we can expect from these CPUs. In more reasonable scenarios, the differences should be even smaller.

That's 27w. Not great, not terrible, but now imagine how much the dual ccd zen 4 pull. Probably over 30, approaching 40w. Do you see the problem?

AusWolfSo that's pretty much the maximum we can expect from these CPUs. In more reasonable scenarios, the differences should be even smaller.

But the problem is the 3d chips won't scale down in power draw by increasing the resolution to what you'd normally play with a 4090. If it draws 50w at 1080p it won't go down to 25w on 4k since it basically idles at 20. On the other hand my 12900k does in fact drop to 50-70w in 4k.

fevgatosThat's 27w. Not great, not terrible, but now imagine how much the dual ccd zen 4 pull. Probably over 30, approaching 40w. Do you see the problem?

I've got some numbers in my post above, but okay... let's say we've got 12 hours of "light work" (browsing) every day. Crude scenario, but why not.

With my 7800X3D, that's 324 Wh a day, 10.04 kWh, or £3.01 a month.
With the 7950X3D, it's 444 Wh a day (TPU mentions a 37 W single-threaded power consumption), and 13.76 kWh, or £4.13 a month.

That's £1.12 difference a month... £13.44 a year... when you watch Youtube continuously for 12 hours every single day. Do you see how ridiculous the whole debate is? ;)

AusWolfI've got some numbers in my post above, but okay... let's say we've got 12 hours of "light work" (browsing) every day. Crude scenario, but why not.

With my 7800X3D, that's 324 Wh a day, 10.04 kWh, or £3.01 a month.
With the 7950X3D, it's 444 Wh a day (TPU mentions a 37 W single-threaded power consumption), 13.76 kWh a month, or £4.13 a month.

That's £1.12 difference a month... £13.44 a year... when you watch Youtube continuously for 12 hours every single day. Do you see how ridiculous the whole debate is? ;)

I agree I never said it makes a difference to your actual bill. Efficiency, for me at least, isn't about how much I'm going to pay for the electricity bill. It's about wasting energy for no apparent reason.

Buying a can of soda per month and just throwing it down the sink will also only cost you a pound a month, but I assume you don't do that. Why don't you do that? Cause it's a waste. That's how I feel whenever I'm using my ryzen pc to browse the web

fevgatosBut the problem is the 3d chips won't scale down in power draw by increasing the resolution to what you'd normally play with a 4090. If it draws 50w at 1080p it won't go down to 25w on 4k since it basically idles at 20. On the other hand my 12900k does in fact drop to 50-70w in 4k.

You can look at it that way and argue about a 20 W difference. Or you can look at the 13900K eating up to, and over 150 Watts when you play in CPU-limited scenarios. Your choice.

fevgatosI agree I never said it makes a difference to your actual bill. Efficiency, for me at least, isn't about how much I'm going to pay for the electricity bill. It's about wasting energy for no apparent reason.

Then maybe you shouldn't buy one of the most power-hungry CPUs in existence.

You know what saves more power? Put your display to sleep! My 4k monitor uses more power than the 3080+2700 combined on idle, or probably even when playing YT videos.

AusWolfYou can look at it that way and argue about a 20 W difference. Or you can look at the 13900K eating up to 150 Watts when you play in CPU-limited scenarios. Your choice.


Then maybe you shouldn't buy one of the most power-hungry CPUs in existence.

The 13900k is indeed a power hog in games, that's why I don't have it anymore, went back to my 12900k. But it needs to be said that also the 13900k is incredibly efficient in productivity unless for some reason you decide to run it power unlimited at 300 watts. But why would you do that is beyond me. It's the 2nd most efficient cpu in Mt workloads so...