AGlezBPS: If you're an AMD fanboy/fangirl/fanwhatever I understand being bothered by Tim saying FSR is the worst between FSR, XESS and DLSS. Othewise I don't see why promoting DLSS for nVidia users would bother you.

I am an AMD fanboi simply because they have shown better pro consumer actions, pro open standrads and pro FOSS.

I despise Intel because I remember how they treaded us when they were on top and how they resorted to illegal practices to almost kill AMD.

Lastly I hate Ngreedia because they ate everything that AMD isnt (as listed above).

But before being a fanboi of any corporation, I am a fanboi of us the consumers and a gamer that love the openness offered by the PC platform.

That openness is rapidly being extinguished by Ngreedia locking tech. Sample, you cannot enjoy all the eye candy in the Arkham games if you dont have a Ngreedia gpu due to being polluted by Phyx or in The Ascent, which only has DLSS with no FSR or XESS.

Now its even worse with DLSS.

Yet nobody sees that or say anything to stop the pollution.

I’m glad that I’m old and wont be around to see the end of openness in pc gaming thanks to Ngreedia and the current crop of dumb customers that dont value their right to options.

wolfSimply wrong, didn't take long to find these at all. And more for positives on their CPU's

Curious how you missed the part that I wrote, saying that I stopped watching them, so no, never saw those.

Also, pay attention to Steves face, still negative. You need to check how people perceive and react to visual clues at the subliminal level.

But I’m curious, how many times they called DLSS and RT a must have?

Neo_MorpheusCurious how you missed the part that I wrote, saying that I stopped watching them, so no, never saw those.

Without indicating when you stopped, I must be a mind reader to know at exactly which point forward you never saw the thumbnails, but I'd wager there are positive ones from before you stopped too.

Neo_MorpheusAlso, pay attention to Steves face, still negative. You need to check how people perceive and react to visual clues at the subliminal level.

I suspected you might have a personal interpretation that was still that they're negative, can't help you there, even though it's obvious he's looking negatively at the GeForce which has the DESTROYED label.

Neo_MorpheusBut I’m curious, how many times they called DLSS and RT a must have?

I can't recall a single time tbh, he very begrudgingly feels forced to admit (because Tim's upscaling testing conclusively bears it out) that DLSS is the superior upscaling tech if that matters to you as a buyer, and routinely says RT shouldn't matter to most buyers that are looking in the midrange or lower end of the market.

Minus InfinityYou been in a coma I see: FSR 3.1 announced 6 weeks ago.

www.anandtech.com/show/21317/amd-announces-fsr-31-seriously-improved-upscaling-quality

And already tested by Hardware unboxed that usually loathe FSR and even they were impressed with the improvements

Already tested by HUB :roll:, doesn't look to me like you understand what you are saying.

At this point 5090 might even come out with some new fancy tech before FSR3.1 is implemented in more than a handful of games (with image quality inferior to XeSS 1.3 and DLSS 3.7 of course)

Neo_MorpheusBut I’m curious, how many times they called DLSS and RT a must have?

This is a funny complaint to me, because if anything Hardware Unboxed is highly skeptical of RT--both because Steve has a declared bias towards competitive shooters (higher frame rates), and because RT has yet to show much of a visual payoff in return for the perf hit in most of the games in which it's featured. By the same token, HUB is and always was highly unimpressed with DLSS 3.0 (and later FSR frame gen). They acknowledge that the feature is interesting, but they also emphasize, constantly, that there are tons of use cases in which it is useless, possibly worse than useless.

Contrast all of the above with just about any other tech review channel, most of which chase hype at all costs. The idea that HUB carries water for Nvidia is laugh-out-loud absurd. Yes, they prefer DLSS to FSR. So does everyone on the planet. They also criticize AMD for its often incoherent pricing/marketing schemes. Those criticisms are well deserved.

Personally, I don't have much use for anything on youtube, these days. The whole site has become a wasteland of empty clickbait timewasters and shameless self-promotion. But if you do want balanced, well-researched, and consumer-oriented hardware analysis in video form, HUB is as good as you'll find, and better than the vast majority. If you don't care for video, then Techpowerup's all you need.

wolfWithout indicating when you stopped, I must be a mind reader to know at exactly which point forward you never saw the thumbnails, but I'd wager there are positive ones from before you stopped too.

The fact that I said I never saw a positive one should cover that and that was around the launch of the 7000 series.

wolfI suspected you might have a personal interpretation that was still that they're negative, can't help you there, even though it's obvious he's looking negatively at the GeForce which has the DESTROYED label.

First picture is (in my eyes) incredulous of the gpu being good.
Second picture is like he is sadly telling the ngreedia gpu, “how could you, you were the chosen one” or something similar.

wolfI can't recall a single time tbh, he very begrudgingly feels forced to admit (because Tim's upscaling testing conclusively bears it out) that DLSS is the superior upscaling tech if that matters to you as a buyer, and routinely says RT shouldn't matter to most buyers that are looking in the midrange or lower end of the market.

Dont get me wrong, DLSS might be better, but what pisses me off that nobody these days have a problem with the fact that its proprietary tech that forces you to buy their hardware.

Back in the day, that was an automatic “Con” to any smart reviewers and consumers.

Now people are blindly praising it.

WastelandThis is a funny complaint to me, because if anything Hardware Unboxed is highly skeptical of RT--both because Steve has a declared bias towards competitive shooters (higher frame rates), and because RT has yet to show much of a visual payoff in return for the perf hit in most of the games in which it's featured. By the same token, HUB is and always was highly unimpressed with DLSS 3.0 (and later FSR frame gen). They acknowledge that the feature is interesting, but they also emphasize, constantly, that there are tons of use cases in which it is useless, possibly worse than useless.

Contrast all of the above with just about any other tech review channel, most of which chase hype at all costs. The idea that HUB carries water for Nvidia is laugh-out-loud absurd. Yes, they prefer DLSS to FSR. So does everyone on the planet. They also criticize AMD for its often incoherent pricing/marketing schemes. Those criticisms are well deserved.

Personally, I don't have much use for anything on youtube, these days. The whole site has become a wasteland of empty clickbait timewasters and shameless self-promotion. But if you do want balanced, well-researched, and consumer-oriented hardware analysis in video form, HUB is as good as you'll find, and better than the vast majority. If you don't care for video, then Techpowerup's all you need.

Please read my other post again, I clearly pointed my fingers at Tim. But Steve also has his share of the blame, just less.

They have changed and many have pointed that out.

Personally, I am doing very little viewing in youtube just as you described and yes, i get my info here. I simply dont comment much because of reasons.

looks like kopite loosely corrected this article. he says the 5080 "should" be first. rumor articles from WCCF and the thin skinned Videocardz incoming

usinameThe way you are meant to be milked

The way you are meant to be butthurt amd fanboy

The rest of your post not withstanding, as I am not a mind reader nor am I able to alter the way you perceive things vs me and others.

Neo_MorpheusDont get me wrong, DLSS might be better,

It is [at least as far as IQ is concerned], not just might.

Neo_Morpheusbut what pisses me off that nobody these days have a problem with the fact that its proprietary tech that forces you to buy their hardware.

How does it force me? Despite any reason you might give I'll head this one off, it doesn't. AMD remain a valid choice for any buyer, and many sing the praises of their Radeons having come from RTX cards.

Neo_MorpheusBack in the day, that was an automatic “Con” to any smart reviewers and consumers.

Was it an "automatic con"? I don't remember seeing Nvidia specific features mentioned as cons to their products in reviews, (feel free to link me, genuinely curious to see if there are examples) and you can't pretend to gatekeep being smart or holding a perceived moral high ground.

Neo_MorpheusNow people are blindly praising it.

Quite the opposite, in fact amusingly so because it's virtually 100% of the time the people that can't see it are the ones that naysay it. The irony.

Neo_MorpheusI am an AMD fanboi

This pretty much explains it for me, nice of you to be so upfront about it.

wolfDid you watch the video? 3.1 is announced but not available to consumers in any games yet, and HUB didn't test it at all, they just covered the announcement content provided by AMD and showed older FSR footage.

When it actually gets independently tested and reviewed by the likes of HUB or DF, and users can test it for themselves, we'll get a true sense of the improvements.

Keep moving the goal posts. You said it doesn't exist. Keep finding excuses if it makes you feel better.

Minus InfinityKeep moving the goal posts. You said it doesn't exist. Keep finding excuses if it makes you feel better.

Show me 1 game with FSR3.1? instead of some slide from AMD promising that it will show up some time in the future?

By your definition of existing, that would mean 5090 exist today, right?

Just looking forward to seeing peoples $2k cards burn :laugh:

wolfHard disagree that they're pro anyone, they just accurately cover product and feature pros and cons as those products and features release or evolve. So recently they certainly throw constant praise at the 7800X3D, but called out the Ryzen 5700 for being misleadingly named and poorly performing. They throw limited (and from my perspective, begrudging) praise at DLSS, becuase the testing bears out it's superiority, yet rightly call out the RTX 3050 6GB as being misleadingly named and poorly performing.

Over the many years of following them and watching / reading (on techspot) their content, I can't accept or agree that they are pro any company overarchingly, but (mostly) Steve's personal style is such that you could wear whatever tint glasses you want when watching and glean from it that they are anti that color tint. Poor Steve Walton allows himself to get a bit too salty and baited by the fanboys at times, as evidenced by his "I told you so" commentary directly addressing them, and my aforementioned example of tests purposely constructed by him, to make his point du jour.

Personally I consume mostly just the data that they present, as I have no reason to believe any of it is inaccurate, but play close attention to the testing methodology, and then make up my own mind on what picture that paints.

They are pro for years. They just go with the flow. And as with most tech press, they will use harsh titles for AMD, they will be much more careful when having to talk about Nvidia or Intel.
Your example proves it.
They use the word "scam" for the 5700. They just avoided to use the same word for the RTX 3050 6GB. In fact they praised the card if I remember correctly as the best card at 75Ws. They also avoided using that word for Intel's fiasco with it's CPUs. You seem to not understand that the title in a video is much more influential than some excuses hidden in a video. Many tech sites do this constantly. Many tech sites keep certain companies happy by putting the right titles on their videos/articles.

So let's recap. A model with a different name is a scam, because it also comes with different specs. On the other hand, a model with worst specs and same name is not. CPUs that are becoming unstable and degrade in short time of use, they aren't either a scam. They are just Intel's mess. A mistake, but not a scam. Something that can be fixed. Not a scam. Selling CPUs at frequencies that aren't stable for at least the warranty period, is not a scam. Selling a graphics card with less CUDA cores, at lower frequencies with the same model name, is not a scam. Selling a CPU with less cache as a DIFFERENT model, is a scam. Am I saying it correctly?

Tim is praising DLSS and trashing FSR in every video he makes for the last year. He will lower the video speed at 25%, zoom by 4, and call any FSR pixel that is not at the same position that DLSS algorithm puts it, as being in the wrong position. As for Steve I will again repeat. He goes with the flow. Praising a 6 core/ 6 threads Intel CPU based on 720p benchmarking on games that couldn't see more than 4 threads against the R5 1600, then a few years latter praising the R5 1600 over that Intel CPU and the last couple of years praising Intel again, with chips like the 7800X3D being exceptions, because, let's face it, even Intel in a public review would had to admit that 7800X3D is one of the top options for gaming.

GodisanAtheistThinking the 5090 is going to be at least 2 cuts below the full GB202.

Blackwell for servers is a dual die chip. I will be surprised if Nvidia sells a dual die chip for gamers, except if it goes full AI push in the retail market and sell the 5080 with one full Blackwell die and then come latter with a dual die, dual memory 5090 at $3000 with the second die offering some extra performance/features in AI and other cases. While I can't think something specific, I bet a 2.5 trillions company will think of something.

wolfI can't recall a single time tbh,

LOL nice one.

john_So let's recap

Sure, you think they have an agenda, I don't. You saying it doesn't make me wrong, or me right, it's just our perceptions.

Minus InfinityKeep moving the goal posts. You said it doesn't exist. Keep finding excuses if it makes you feel better.

Move what goalposts? Quote me saying it doesn't exist. Or just accept that you got called out on saying something incorrect.

wolfSure, you think they have an agenda, I don't. You saying it doesn't make me wrong, or me right, it's just our perceptions.

Not an agenda. They just do what the majority of tech press is doing. They are careful what to say and what title they will use when talking about Nvidia and Intel, they will go full attack when they can find a reason to attack AMD. AMD's FSR is crap(only DLSS and XeSS exist), cheaper AM5 boards are crap(Z790 boards running CPUs at even 1GHz difference is probably... Monday), a Ryzen model is scam, because it comes with different specs, while also having a different model name(but RTX 3050 6GB is the perfect 75W card). I gave some examples, people just want to ignore them, never mind.

john_Not an agenda. They just do what the majority of tech press is doing.

I mean it all sounds pretty reasonable to me, they're allowed to have personal opinions too (noting that I don't much like listening to Steve's as per previous reply). Having watched them for years now I don't see a significant favouritism one way or the other, just reviewing stuff, giving thoughts on it, and calling out bs when it happens from anyone.

And again, I'm certain that others may watch everything that I have and have a different takeaway, such is perceptions, biases, interpretations etc that we all have that vary on an individual basis. But I've yet to see a convincing argument that overall they sway for or against any player.

Drip feed max profit strategy if true. However I take this with a pinch of salt, rumour mills in full flow.

How many cuda cores and the price?o_O

chrcolukDrip feed max profit strategy if true. However I take this with a pinch of salt, rumour mills in full flow.

Yeah, if this is true, it is nothing more than a load of bolt-on extras over the 4090. nGreedia are now not even bothering to design new tech, they just wait for new manufacturing processes so they can bolt on more old stuff. Must be relatively cheap to design an nGreedia GPU the last 4 years.

New GPU, yeah lets just fit in a few more cores and we get a low-cost perf upgrade without having to design new shaders, better cuda cores, better RT cores, better ROPs etc. Maybe the 60x0 series might see a new architecture design for at least some of the chip.

It's a shame AI had to be an nGreedia thing, they despise the gamer market now, the market that made them.

Minus InfinityWell given it's still 4nm, this time 4NPP, power levels won't drop and it will have a lot more cuda cores and tensor cores no doubt. Efficiency may be better but will be swamped by performance gains.

AMD won't really suffer not having high end this year. Just knock the RDNA 4 N48 out of the park and price it right and it outsell 5090 1000:1

Backside power delivery will enable great gains for both the performance and efficiency. It does make sense for AMD to hold 90 series for that.

The question I see no one has asked yet:

I wonder if Nvidia will be able to fix the 5090 to keep the power connectors from starting on fire like on the 4090? Or if they just will claim "user error" and try to wash their hands of it.

vantilaBackside power delivery will enable great gains for both the performance and efficiency. It does make sense for AMD to hold 90 series for that.

Back side power and nano sheets not until A16(N1.6), 2026 the earliest. Maybe even long after playstation 6 and RTX 60 series. Everything is stuck on N4 for the foreseeable future. If they skip N3 and N2 and go directly to A16 for next gen that would be incredible.

TechPowerUp:
NVIDIA to Only Launch the Flagship GeForce RTX 5090 in 2024, Rest of the Series in 2025 tpu.me/sqga











kopite7kimi

@kopite7kimi

It's not ture. RTX 5080 should be released first.
2:48 AM · May 7, 2024
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PerfectWaveTechPowerUp:
NVIDIA to Only Launch the Flagship GeForce RTX 5090 in 2024, Rest of the Series in 2025 tpu.me/sqga




kopite7kimi
@kopite7kimi

It's not ture. RTX 5080 should be released first.
2:48 AM · May 7, 2024
twitter.com/intent/like?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1787645742510993853|twgr^4bafca49efa1b798596d1695c580fcf8236b82bc|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5080-reportedly-launches-before-rtx-5090&tweet_id=1787645742510993853

He can't even spell true.

Wonder if Nvidia will finally add DP2.1 to the new cards?

Neo_MorpheusI am an AMD fanboi simply because they have shown better pro consumer actions, pro open standrads and pro FOSS.

I despise Intel because I remember how they treaded us when they were on top and how they resorted to illegal practices to almost kill AMD.

Lastly I hate Ngreedia because they ate everything that AMD isnt (as listed above).

But before being a fanboi of any corporation, I am a fanboi of us the consumers and a gamer that love the openness offered by the PC platform.

That openness is rapidly being extinguished by Ngreedia locking tech. Sample, you cannot enjoy all the eye candy in the Arkham games if you dont have a Ngreedia gpu due to being polluted by Phyx or in The Ascent, which only has DLSS with no FSR or XESS.

Now its even worse with DLSS.

Yet nobody sees that or say anything to stop the pollution.

I’m glad that I’m old and wont be around to see the end of openness in pc gaming thanks to Ngreedia and the current crop of dumb customers that dont value their right to options.


Curious how you missed the part that I wrote, saying that I stopped watching them, so no, never saw those.

Also, pay attention to Steves face, still negative. You need to check how people perceive and react to visual clues at the subliminal level.

But I’m curious, how many times they called DLSS and RT a must have?

I wish I was that naive. I haven't had such a simplistic and black vs. white view of the world in decades.
Just let me ask you a simple, rethorical question: iPhone or Android?
If you don't understand the point of the question that's fine too. After all, teaching you how the world works is not my job.