If you report such underwhelming quarterly results, announce that you would sack almost 20,000 employees and have massive reputation issues due to instability of desktop CPUs, why would you ever be surprised that your stock thumbles down a lot? No brainer.

dragontamer5788I do think a "little" bit of recession (or slowdown) talk is appropriate given Intel's position as a luxury / quality goods maker.

People buy Intel Xeon because its a high performance server at (what should be) lower power than the competition. But its a bit more $$$$ than ARM or AMD. Of course, AMD has been grossly improving its quality (both performance and watts). So that's a big reason for Intel's seeming decline.

But we probably shouldn't go overboard on economic topics. You're right that by the time I'm posting about M2 and stuff we're too far away from the core topic.

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Luxury goods decline as people get worried about their personal finance. People will buy so called "inferior goods", goods that they know are lower-quality but offer a better price-efficiency. So I think Intel is poorly positioned in a hypothetical recession (or slowdown). In contrast, AMD has a reputation for both cheaper and somehow gained a reputation of higher-quality among many enthusiasts... despite coming in at a lower cost. AMD is your traditional "inferior good" (in terms of economics) that would benefit from economic slowdowns.

I don't know if I'd put Intel in a luxury goods category, considering they are still the primary supplier of CPUs that go into workstations. I'd actually argue that is their core business more than ever. PCs just aren't where the excitement is anymore when it comes to personal/luxury use--that's where phones take over. If you're an everyday user, there's nothing really prompting you to upgrade the barely-used home PC unless it finally breaks. People will line up for a new phone way more often. Even in down times, Intel has the means to land in more PCs overall, be they premium or bargain bin. The PC doesn't garner excitement, and I'm guessing MS's PC+Copilot efforts aren't going to move the needle either. Businesses are more likely to leverage AI, and again, this is where Intel is falling woefully short of rivals. Being this far down in the market is people still thinking "AI" will be the next big thing, and Intel doesn't have a lot to show for AI processing power, just a mobile NPU that won't do anything for these GPU/AI server farms going online.

rv8000Too bad they rested on their laurels for so long and tossed away their market lead via stagnation. That and the lack of innovation besides slapping on e-cores and pumping wattage through the roof up until their new lake skus. Can’t even find it in me to play my tiny violin.

they got complacent bc of the deals they have w OEMs like lenovo, dell, hp, etc cuz they strongarmed them hard and then intel got complacent cuz they have an easy lock in and look where we are now...

Darmok N JaladI don't know if I'd put Intel in a luxury goods category, considering they are still the primary supplier of CPUs that go into workstations. I'd actually argue that is their core business more than ever. PCs just aren't where the excitement is anymore when it comes to personal/luxury use--that's where phones take over. If you're an everyday user, there's nothing really prompting you to upgrade the barely-used home PC unless it finally breaks. People will line up for a new phone way more often. Even in down times, Intel has the means to land in more PCs overall, be they premium or bargain bin. The PC doesn't garner excitement, and I'm guessing MS's PC+Copilot efforts aren't going to move the needle either. Businesses are more likely to leverage AI, and again, this is where Intel is falling woefully short of rivals. Being this far down in the market is people still thinking "AI" will be the next big thing, and Intel doesn't have a lot to show for AI processing power, just a mobile NPU that won't do anything for these GPU/AI server farms going online.

In this discussion, there's three kinds of goods on the luxury axis:

* Luxury Goods -- The richer you are, the more you buy
* Normal Goods -- Rich and poor will buy this regardless of their situation
* Inferior Goods -- The poorer you are, the more you buy. (Ex: Cambell's Soup making tons of money during the Great Depression).

I'm looking at Wikipedia, and it seems like "Luxury Goods" are perhaps a bad name and people are seemingly calling this concept a "Superior Good" instead.

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Hmmm... thinking of your post.... maybe Intel is more of a "Normal Good" today, in that people buy them because they need a new computer. Its no longer that "Luxury" or "Superior" reputation they once had. So in that case, economic conditions don't really affect Intel, if they're a normal good. So I guess economics are now off-topic? (LOL).

dragontamer5788In this discussion, there's three kinds of goods on the luxury axis:

* Luxury Goods -- The richer you are, the more you buy
* Normal Goods -- Rich and poor will buy this regardless of their situation
* Inferior Goods -- The poorer you are, the more you buy. (Ex: Cambell's Soup making tons of money during the Great Depression).

I'm looking at Wikipedia, and it seems like "Luxury Goods" are perhaps a bad name and people are seemingly calling this concept a "Superior Good" instead.

-------------

Hmmm... thinking of your post.... maybe Intel is more of a "Normal Good" today, in that people buy them because they need a new computer. Its no longer that "Luxury" or "Superior" reputation they once had. So in that case, economic conditions don't really affect Intel, if they're a normal good. So I guess economics are now off-topic? (LOL).

i9 is in the luxury goods range. Apple computers are the same with Microsoft Surface. Well each OEM has some luxury line. Intel lost Apple. They are close to loosing Microsoft. And in the gaming world nVidia has the luxury area of the market the same in the AI world. Intel did some progress with Alchemist, but they are still behind. I doubt Battlemage will be more competitive. And now they will be cutting costs and firing people while nVidia and TSMC will spend a lot to go further ahead. Without investing more money, in a few years Intel foundries will be where GloFo is now and in GPU/AI they will be where they were after abandoning Larrabee and Xeon Phi. They will become fabless CPU designer in the shrinking x86 market.

trparkyExactly. And with Ryzen 9000 coming soon, I don't think Intel will have a viable response. So yeah, expect Intel's stock price to continue to nosedive while AMD goes even higher.

God, I wish I has a damn time machine to go back in time to tell myself of five years ago to buy a shitton of AMD stock.

Would you choose AMD over Nvidia?

kapone32I know that the entire market is effected but it is not that simple. We lost a ton of workers in the Technology space this quarter. Whether in PC, Games or Telco there have been tremendous cuts this quarter. Even my workplace has done reduction and expects that we will be able to automate some processes but AI has no idea what idiosyncrasies are.

AI and Indians are going to replace everyone, and I am not even being humorous.

CraptacularWould you choose AMD over Nvidia?

Because AMD used to be less than $2 while Nvidia was something like $50. You would have to convince the bank to allow you to take a giant loan to buy Nvidia and tell them that in 12 years they will be bigger than Apple, Google stock combine. I could have bought 10,000 shares of AMD. Also, I have a feeling AMD is going to have it's Nvidia moment soon. I've been slowly buying stock from them anticipating an explosion in a year or so. Their MI300 and 350 is superior to Nvidia, they have the best IGP's, and they keep beating revenue forecasts.

Sound_CardAI and Indians are going to replace everyone, and I am not even being humorous.



Because AMD used to be less than $2 while Nvidia was something like $50. You would have to convince the bank to allow you to take a giant loan to buy Nvidia and tell them that in 12 years they will be bigger than Apple, Google stock combine. I could have bought 10,000 shares of AMD. Also, I have a feeling AMD is going to have it's Nvidia moment soon. I've been slowly buying stock from them anticipating an explosion in a year or so. Their MI300 and 350 is superior to Nvidia, they have the best IGP's, and they keep beating revenue forecasts.

In 2011 a colleague from work bought 1000 bitcoins for less than $1 each. He told me he would sell them at $1000. I told him he was stupid. He was holding them when they were at $100. I changed joba and lost contact with him. I've never invested in crypto, but if I only have listened to him back then...

Anyways Intel is reaping what they sowed for all the years of underhanded tactics to undermine competition to try and become a monopoly.

Capitalism without competion is a fallacy which becomes a form of communism

OH THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN!

I don't feel sorry for the Intel corporate head douchebags as they have way more than enough funds, I feel sorry for those who actually do the work involved who are getting cut loose, just to keep the corporate head douchebags bank accounts full (bastard fucktards)

The whole "Swandiving" thing would be way funnier if Bob Swan was still the CEO of Intel :roll:

I wonder where Intel would be today if Brian Krzanich hadn't done a Intel Inside™ his secretary. Intel was working on and releasing some pretty solid products during his tenure.

On the upside, I might buy some stock this week.

eidairaman1OH THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN!

Something about the higher they are...

trparkySomething about the higher they are...

The Bigger they are the harder they fall

Anyways I believe we need Cyrix, UMP, Hitachi to release CISC cpus that use AMD64 instruction sets to give a healthy variety of parts. Super Socket 7 was the ideal platform, then Intel had to go proprietary because competition was out doing them

64KWell, Nvidia is making more money than ever but they are down about 2%. Investors just seem to want to sell tech stocks right now and for AMD to be up does stand out imo.

It is not about how much you make now. People invest based on what they think is the potential of the company. There's been a lot of concerns around the sustainability of spending on more AI hardware because all these AI companies have yet to find a way to make money out of it. Even OpenAI is bleeding cash constantly. So Blackwell is going to be faster, but companies can't just replace their entire AI hardware infrastructure because its sunk cost. Hence, companies will still buy from Nvidia, but its not going to be like a few years back where they are building up their AI infrastructure.

Darmok N JaladI’m actually wondering how long before we learn the dGPU business is done for. It’s been a huge money loser for years. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s part of the 10B cost reduction. While technically and asset, it’s not exactly worth much on the open market.

It is losing money, but I feel is one area which Intel should absolutely focus on. As you can tell, the likes of AMD and ARM processors have fairly good iGPUs, which they can "bundle" with their CPU sales. This is especially lucrative for the mobile/ laptop space. If Intel goes back to those dumb iGPU, it is not possible for them to achieve low power usage on laptops/ mobile devices powered by Intel chips. GPUs is not always about gaming as there are other usage.

Personally, I don't think Intel will become irrelevant, but will certainly face an uphill climb going forward. All the "time bombs" set by prior CEOs are starting to blow up one after another. The main failures are, (1) sitting on their fab issues for way too long allowing competitors to overtake them, and, (2) sitting on the brand name with little innovation or change, a.k.a. playing it too safe. For example, every generation of CPU is always minor improvements, same number of cores, severely gated features that you need to pay substantial premium to unlock, etc. It was easy money for Intel, until an able competitor starts bucking the trend and throwing massive cores counts and desirable features at a lower price point. I feel the biggest misstep (personal opinion) is for Pat to triple down on fab business. All their competitors are not tied down to a fab, meaning if there's issues with a fab, they have the option to use another. Currently, the issues plaguing Raptor Lake and Intel's decision to use TSMC for their next gen CPU just tells me something is not working well with their fab despite all the fluffy fab numbers, i.e. Intel 4. Like I have been saying it is not the number that counts, but how well it works in the final product. This is going to negatively impact their effort to attract big companies to use their fab, and even if they manage to get some contracts, they won't be able to charge like TSMC. So the fab business is going to be a serious drag to Intel, like GF was for AMD back then. I do think the fab losses will widen because of the ongoing expansion plans, since they need to hire more people, obtain more equipments, and pay for running cost. Those government payouts may be cushioning some of the impact now, so I think the worst is yet to come. As the company looks weaker, it will also translate to higher borrowing cost to finance their investments. So I can understand the need to drastically reduce cost.

watzupkenAs you can tell, the likes of AMD and ARM processors have fairly good iGPUs, which they can "bundle" with their CPU sales.

Let's not forget that there are a lot of us out there that don't necessarily see the need for raytracing and simply want decent framerates at high enough resolutions and if AMD can deliver an APU that can deliver on that, then they've got a golden goose on their hands.

trparkyLet's not forget that there are a lot of us out there that don't necessarily see the need for raytracing and simply want decent framerates at high enough resolutions and if AMD can deliver an APU that can deliver on that, then they've got a golden goose on their hands.

There is never a high enough resolution and refresh, once you have money to spend you would always want something better. 4K 240hz is king of the hill now, but in a few years it will be 8K 240hz.

nguyenThere is never a high enough resolution and refresh, once you have money to spend you would always want something better. 4K 240hz is king of the hill now, but in a few years it will be 8K 240hz.

If I can get 180 FPS at 1440p, I'd be happy.

trparkyLet's not forget that there are a lot of us out there that don't necessarily see the need for raytracing and simply want decent framerates at high enough resolutions and if AMD can deliver an APU that can deliver on that, then they've got a golden goose on their hands.

I don't think Intel have a choice really. Devices are getting smaller, so dGPU is getting less relevant unless you want a desktop replacement. If a laptop can offer some basic gaming support, most people will buy them instead of the chunkier, hotter and power hungrier ones that sound like a vacuum cleaner under load. If Intel drops their GPU focus, I think they will also drop out of the power efficient CPU/ APU race.

nguyenThere is never a high enough resolution and refresh, once you have money to spend you would always want something better. 4K 240hz is king of the hill now, but in a few years it will be 8K 240hz.

Personally, I feel even 1080p looks ok on a laptop where the screen is usually 14 to 16 inches. If I can get anything more than 60 at medium graphic settings, I feel it is good enough for me. High resolution and performance will require a lot more powerful hardware, and is a trade off.

eidairaman1The Bigger they are the harder they fall

Anyways I believe we need Cyrix, UMP, Hitachi to release CISC cpus that use AMD64 instruction sets to give a healthy variety of parts. Super Socket 7 was the ideal platform, then Intel had to go proprietary because competition was out doing them

We need socketed laptop CPUs again!!!

Imma make a laptop brand and have every single cpu option ever!!

trparkyIf I can get 180 FPS at 1440p, I'd be happy.

Well I was happy with 1440p 144hz, about 10 years ago :D, now my next passion is 4K 240hz (currently using LG OLED C4 144hz)

nguyenWell I was happy with 1440p 144hz, about 10 years ago :D

Some of us aren’t greedy. And to add to it, a lot of us don’t have an unlimited bank account balance.

remixedcatWe need socketed laptop CPUs again!!!

Imma make a laptop brand and have every single cpu option ever!!

We need true laptops like my Dell XPS Gen 1 (Inspiron 9100), that Text Book Sized unit kept a P4 Gallatin Core (Northwoord Extreme) 3.4, 2G DDR, 7200RPM 100GB Hitachi HDD, ATi Mobility Radeon 9800 (Desktop 9700 Pro/9800 R423) GPU cool and heck the GPU was Overclocked, this was in 2004!

A Thicker Hefty Clevo built like the XPS Gen 1 Chassis but modular would be a Good Idea

More drama:

Sound_CardBecause AMD used to be less than $2 while Nvidia was something like $50. You would have to convince the bank to allow you to take a giant loan to buy Nvidia and tell them that in 12 years they will be bigger than Apple, Google stock combine. I could have bought 10,000 shares of AMD. Also, I have a feeling AMD is going to have it's Nvidia moment soon. I've been slowly buying stock from them anticipating an explosion in a year or so. Their MI300 and 350 is superior to Nvidia, they have the best IGP's, and they keep beating revenue forecasts.

AMD stock was basically ~$30 and Nvidia's stock was $4 dollars five years ago. I would choose Nvidia's stock over AMD if we are talking going back five years ago.

ChaitanyaMore drama:

Haha, this video is insane. Go the 44:50 minute mark. Look at how quickly he scrolled over this graph. I wonder why :roll: :roll:

Multi billion dollar company with a tonne of government contracts getting subbed to build new plants and are key to American technological security that has/had large cash reserves and will be bringing new products and manufacturing nodes out soon. They can have a bad day no problem or survive a market correction they aren't going anywhere just because they aren't the market darling anymore they are very strong and one of the few large tech companies that aren't built on straw.