oxrufiioxoNvidia tends to be more expensive with less vram people who value raster and vram capacity would likely view amd as the better value.

Just looking at 40 series vs 7000 though

4080 vs 7900XTX 20% more expensive but has seemingly aged better

4070ti vs 7900XT amd was actually more expensive but more vram slightly better raster but still loses in RT

4070 vs 7800XT same play book but 5 months late only to lose thunder vs the price cut 4070 and 4070 super refresh

4060 vs 7600 both trash toss them up what trash you like better.

The key difference is amd does not hold msrp giving the perception of better value even the 7900XTX/7800XT their two probably most well perceived drop a decent chunk at times during its lifetime.

Exactly this. Thank you for answering it better than I did.

Even at an inflated launch price, AMD offers better value than Nvidia.

remekraTbh I'm not sure if even good price can make it sell like hotcakes.
I'm selling my 7900XTX and today I learned from one of the guys that was interested in buying, that my card doesn't support RT and Indiana Jones won't start on it so future games might also not. So he can buy it but for 100$ less than what I listed because if not then he can buy used 4080 that supports RT.

Nvidia market share and even more importantly mind share has got AMD in choke hold.
They would need to go all out, make a better card for every segment basically even the halo one and not 5-10%. Simply make it so that every reviewer can have no other conclusion but to say that AMD gpus is better compared to nvidia offering.

:banghead: He lied to you to try and get you to lower the price.

AMD's 7000 series does support RT. A look at any RT enabled game will bear this fact out, even that very Indian Jones game he said won't even run on a 7900 XTX: www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/indiana-jones-and-the-great-circle-benchmarks-pc-performance-analysis/

It should go without saying that you should verify what you are told by random people nowadays, particularly when there is a financial incentive for them to lie to you. Let that guy take a hike, I would not sell anything to that guy knowing how dishonest he is. He's the kind of buyer to come back claiming that something else is wrong with the card and ask for another discount.

AusWolfBecause Nvidia doesn't lower prices.

What was the 4080S?

Do you deny Nvidia’s products are in high demand?

AusWolfExactly this. Thank you for answering it better than I did.

Even at an inflated launch price, AMD offers better value than Nvidia.

Sure, if you are looking at obsolete measurements. It turns out that it is Nvidia that has “fine wine” now. Feature wise, AMD is five years behind. Shame they don’t charge five year old technology prices. Weird that you aren’t upset about it, you know, claiming you aren’t a fan and all.

Did you know there’s games coming out now that a two generation old AMD GPU is completely incapable of running? And it has nothing to do with VRAM size, it’s due to being obsolete.

VRAM can be worked around. Missing hardware blocks can’t. If that‘s what you call “better value” then our ideas of longevity contributing to value don’t seem to converge.

But hey, at least this year AMD is getting Nvidia’s 2020 version of image reconstruction, right? I mean, only for a GPU that isn’t out yet, but progress, right?

When do you think they will have hardware Nanite?

Visible NoiseWhat was the 4080S?

A slap in the face for vanilla 4080 owners.

Visible NoiseDo you deny Nvidia’s products are in high demand?

No. I have no idea where you got that assumption from.

Visible NoiseWhat was the 4080S?

Do you deny Nvidia’s products are in high demand?

In my book a price correction on the most stupidly priced Nvidia product but was a year later and most prices were still 1100+ though.

remekraI'm selling my 7900XTX and today I learned from one of the guys that was interested in buying, that my card doesn't support RT and Indiana Jones won't start on it so future games might also not. So he can buy it but for 100$ less than what I listed because if not then he can buy used 4080 that supports RT.

He is playing it ignorand to try to steal your card for cheaper. No one tries to buy a 7900XTX second hand if he doesn't know what he is buying. If he was really skeptical about the RT and he really wanted RT and he really cared about Indiana Jones, he would have said to you that this card isn't for him, not trying to convince you to lower the price.

AusWolfI ain't sitting on the "Intel, the saviour of the GPU business" bandwagon, either. I don't understand why the B580 is praised to no end.

I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before and you're well aware of it, but for everyone else:

The B580 chip has 20 EUs, compared to 32 for the A770. It is clocked at 2670, compared to 2400 for the A770. It has 456GB of bandwidth, compared to 512 for the A770.

So, with 62.5% of the cores, 11% less bandwidth, and an 11% increase in clock speed, the B580 is 12% faster.

That's a pretty big generational jump in performance per core, something like a 40% overall increase. That's HUGE. When is the last time nvidia or AMD did that? 15 years ago? And this was done in a single generation. This likely means the B770 will hit within the 4070's territory.

And sure, they have some driver issues right now. IIRC AMD took damn near a decade to fix their single threaded bottleneck that made their cards run faster on intel, which was meme'd to the moon and back. Nvidia broke their drivers with Chrome users for over half a year. Stuff happens. Compared to the A series the B series has launched in much better shape and targets that budget market that AMD has been handing scraps to, so of course there is major interest.

AusWolfIt's basically a less available 7600 / 4060 with more VRAM and worse drivers. Not a big deal to write home about.

AusWolfSo far, Intel hasn't showed me anything to make me take them seriously.

It's a product that is both faster and cheaper with more VRAM then it's competitors. Given how often you guys whine about the evil nGreedia and their pricing and memory shenanigans, you cant figure out why people like the B580? Hmmmm......

remekraNvidia market share and even more importantly mind share has got AMD in choke hold.
They would need to go all out, make a better card for every segment basically even the halo one and not 5-10%. Simply make it so that every reviewer can have no other conclusion but to say that AMD gpus is better compared to nvidia offering.

The problem here is that Nvidia can simply lower pricing by $100 and make 9070 DOA even after positive reviews.

Visible NoiseSure, if you are looking at obsolete measurements. It turns out that it is Nvidia that has “fine wine” now. Feature wise, AMD is five years behind. Shame they don’t charge five year old technology prices. Weird that you aren’t upset about it, you know, claiming you aren’t a fan and all.

Interestingly, those "five years behind" cards let me play my games like any other. I just have to turn RT down, but guess what, I don't care. At least they come a fair bit cheaper.

I'm a fan of value, whether it comes in a red or green box, I don't care. The fact that it's been a more red than green box in recent years doesn't mean that I'm a company fan.

TheinsanegamerNI'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before and you're well aware of it, but for everyone else:

The B580 chip has 20 EUs, compared to 32 for the A770. It is clocked at 2670, compared to 2400 for the A770. It has 456GB of bandwidth, compared to 512 for the A770.

So, with 62.5% of the cores, 11% less bandwidth, and an 11% increase in clock speed, the B580 is 12% faster.

That's a pretty big generational jump in performance per core, something like a 40% overall increase. That's HUGE. When is the last time nvidia or AMD did that? 15 years ago? And this was done in a single generation. This likely means the B770 will hit within the 4070's territory.

It sure is impressive, but if you only catch up to the competition (barely), I still won't lose my head running for a new GPU.

TheinsanegamerNIt's a product that is both faster and cheaper with more VRAM then it's competitors. Given how often you guys whine about the evil nGreedia and their pricing and memory shenanigans, you cant figure out why people like the B580? Hmmmm......

It's barely any faster (does 5% matter? Really?) and it's not cheaper. And it's not available, which is the biggest problem.

AusWolfA slap in the face for vanilla 4080 owners.

So when Nvidia does a product refresh and lowers prices a year after release, it’s a slap in the face to existing owners.

When AMD lowers their prices three weeks after release they are doing good by responding to demand.

No, you aren’t biased at all :kookoo:

john_Stable pricing and a monopoly

Nets you a MIA tier list as everyone eagerly waits for these 50 series cards to drop while 90 series is crickets.


The stable pricing alone nets you a limited access market that resembles cryptobro scalper shorts starring goofy BTF bullshit as the barrier to entry. Just....Wat?


I don't see any 4090 Titans in this list so they must be OG silicon NOS. You can't convince me that people are buying refurb. Not like this.

remekraI'm selling my 7900XTX and today I learned from one of the guys that was interested in buying, that my card doesn't support RT and Indiana Jones won't start on it so future games might also not. So he can buy it but for 100$ less than what I listed because if not then he can buy used 4080 that supports RT.

Aaaaand the reacher feature garbage storms right through price discovery, along with the sneakerheads and browbeaters that don't have any grasp on hardware.
The 7900XTX, the current AMD flagship doesn't support RT in Indiana Jones, a hot new title in the top 100 that has the poors watching millions of gameplay hours-



Oh.

Yeah the past month I've found ONE channel streaming it. Must be in the wrong communities or something.
I must be missing out hardcore. The past few weeks have been Elden Ring, Infinity Nikki, WuWa, some N64 classics and MiSide.
Oh that's right, this one dropped one day after Indy. We love our cute girls, especially yanderes.


From what I've been able to tell, no RT or PT involved, just some evil ghost in the shell matrix stuff and runs great for everyone by design.

Lets take a look at Indy.



A puzzle-adventure on Windows, PS5 and Xbox...Yet the hardware leans super strong for nVidia.
What an absolutely bizarre relationship between these three. On PC and console it's a Microsoft title.
Microsoft and Sony boxes have been exclusively AMD hardware since like the 360 era.
So who's the assclown artist this time? Microsoft? Maybe id software? Same engine.
Man I guess Doom Eternal runs like shit too, despite existing on literally everything these days.
Maybe it's AMD since that totally makes sense?...

Oh wait. That's blaming the victim. My bad.

KEKW

Couldn't possibly be the usual hamfisting of nVidia "exclusive" features now could it?
When the 40/50 series flagships are hammering out hundreds of FPS with RT/PT-
Oh wait...This game sent us flying all the way back to the struggle to hit 60.



Somebody send me the mental roadmap for that one.
God help I'm only a D student and you've got me on this one big time.

Lets pull up MiSide (If you can't tell by now I think this is a hilarious dunk)



Looks like an Indie RPG adventure sim with horror themes and the engine is that C# Super Chad. That's awesome.

So I guess that's it then. There are three ways to interpret the status quo:
✘ Team red is trash, has NEVER created anything worth investment and loses hard
? Bribes are still in play to romance novice DEI hires into adding half-baked features
✓ The features don't matter at any configuration and the game is simply garbage

So, I know what I'm playing after I sunset this RX 580 for something full time creator capable. :pimp: Good luck nobody.

Intervention9299Kr (Danish Kroner), thats $1,283. We get screwed here in Scandinavia :laugh:

don´t worry, you are not the only one that gets screwed, there are places that are even worse...

Visible NoiseSo when Nvidia does a product refresh and lowers prices a year after release, it’s a slap in the face to existing owners.

When AMD lowers their prices three weeks after release they are doing good by responding to demand.

No, you aren’t biased at all :kookoo:

It's a slap in the face because they released the full die a year later than the cut-down version. They've been sitting on it to do a planned adjustment later, to make it look like they're offering something more.

AMD releases the full die with every product launch. You're only getting price reductions later, but the product you bought remains the same. You don't need to wait to get the good stuff, only to get it cheaper.

Neither of these practices are perfect, but I do feel what AMD is doing is more honest. I am biased towards honesty, if it makes you feel any better.

AusWolfIt's a slap in the face because they released the full die a year later than the cut-down version. They've been sitting on it to do a planned adjustment later, to make it look like they're offering something more.

AMD releases the full die with every product launch. You're only getting price reductions later, but the product you bought remains the same. You don't need to wait to get the good stuff, only to get it cheaper.

Neither of these practices are perfect, but I do feel what AMD is doing is more honest. I am biased towards honesty, if it makes you feel any better.

The only difference is AMD is more in denial about what they can price their products at.... Nvidia wait a year and go well I guess we can throw gamers a bone.....

Keep in mind this is the so called honest company lol....

oxrufiioxoThe only difference is AMD is more in denial about what they can price their products at.... Nvidia wait a year and go well I guess we can throw gamers a bone.....

12 GB 5070 for $550? I'm not sure who's in denial.

AusWolf12 GB 5070 for $550? I'm not sure who's in denial.

So are you saying a 550 usd 5070 won't sell better than whatever AMD releases around the same price?

oxrufiioxoSo are you saying a 550 usd 5070 won't sell better than whatever AMD releases around the same price?

I'm not saying it won't sell better. I'm saying it has no logical reason to.

AusWolfI'm not saying it won't sell better. I'm saying it has no logical reason to.

I'm not saying AMD products are not worth what they price them at only that they tend to be very optimistic and drop prices pretty fast comparatively.... I agree the 5070 is looking like a stupid card but that doesn't mean the general consumer will feel the same so does that make me right and them wrong or vice versa the truth is neither is right or wrong everyone has to decide for themselves what is or isn't worth their money.

I think it will sell well despite me not liking it, I hope I am wrong though.

The 9070XT will tell us a lot about AMD and if they have learned that launching to bad press lingers even if the product eventually becomes ok price to performance after it drops in price.

oxrufiioxoI'm not saying AMD products are not worth what they price them at only that they tend to be very optimistic and drop prices pretty fast comparatively.... I agree the 5070 is looking like a stupid card but that doesn't mean the general consumer will feel the same so does that make me right and them wrong or vice versa the truth is neither is right or wrong everyone has to decide for themselves what is or isn't worth their money.

I think it will sell well despite me not liking it, I hope I am wrong though.

The 9070XT will tell us a lot about AMD and if they have learned that launching to bad press lingers even if the product eventually becomes ok price to performance after it drops in price.

If that was the full picture, I'd agree. However, there are many people out there who would never ever in their wildest dreams think about buying an AMD card. I know some personally who don't even know what AMD's model numbers are because they genuinely don't care. They have always bought Nvidia, and they always will.

People like you and I do our best to think logically about products and judge everything by its own merit, but we're not the average consumer. People don't vote with their wallets. They vote with their asses. This is why I think the 5070 will sell well. If it was a steaming pile of turd, it would still sell well.

AusWolfIf that was the full picture, I'd agree. However, there are many people out there who would never ever in their wildest dreams think about buying an AMD card. I know some personally who don't even know what AMD's model numbers are because they genuinely don't care. They have always bought Nvidia, and they always will.

People like you and I do our best to think logically about products and judge everything by its own merit, but we're not the average consumer. People don't vote with their wallets. They vote with their asses. This is why I think the 5070 will sell well. If it was a steaming pile of turd, it would still sell well.

That happens over time though AMD fumbled that back in 2014, There will always be people that have a preference to a specific brand Like a Toyota for example but it was pretty close a decade ago compared to now.

look how dire their cpu division was in pre 2017 I would have laughed my ass off if somebody told me they would compete with intel again.... They need to do that gameplan for the GPU division.

oxrufiioxoThat happens over time though AMD fumbled that back in 2014, There will always be people that have a preference to a specific brand Like a Toyota for example but it was pretty close a decade ago compared to now.

look how dire their cpu division was in pre 2017 I would have laughed my ass off if somebody told me they would compete with intel again.... They need to do that gameplan for the GPU division.

Well, Intel twiddling their thumbs and showing no sign of innovation for a decade, and then adopting the "just throw more power at it" approach had a lot to do with it.

They do need a comeback on the GPU front, but I'm not sure how much it's up to them alone. Even with RDNA 3, they've got things below 4080 levels covered for cheaper, but people don't care. People care more about the 1% better image offered by DLSS compared to FSR (even though both are crap and shouldn't be needed on a gaming GPU, but that's another matter) and fake frames. Nvidia is so deeply sold on the mindshare that AMD needs something radical to break out of the prejudice. Offering the same but 5-10% cheaper is good enough for me, but isn't good enough for people who piss their pants every time Jensen Huang shows off his new jacket.

oxrufiioxoI'm not saying AMD products are not worth what they price them at only that they tend to be very optimistic and drop prices pretty fast comparatively.... I agree the 5070 is looking like a stupid card but that doesn't mean the general consumer will feel the same so does that make me right and them wrong or vice versa the truth is neither is right or wrong everyone has to decide for themselves what is or isn't worth their money.

I think it will sell well despite me not liking it, I hope I am wrong though.

The 9070XT will tell us a lot about AMD and if they have learned that launching to bad press lingers even if the product eventually becomes ok price to performance after it drops in price.

It’s obvious that the 5070 at $549 scared the piss out of AMD. They panicked, did a complete WTF and even their biggest fans can’t defend the massive fail that was CES. They used to be called Another Month Delay, seems like those times are back.

AusWolfThey do need a comeback on the GPU front, but I'm not sure how much it's up to them alone. Even with RDNA 3, they've got things below 4080 levels covered for cheaper, but people don't care. People care more about the 1% better image offered by DLSS compared to FSR (even though both are crap and shouldn't be needed on a gaming GPU, but that's another matter) and fake frames. Nvidia is so deeply sold on the mindshare that AMD needs something radical to break out of the prejudice. Offering the same but 5-10% cheaper is good enough for me, but isn't good enough for people who piss their pants every time Jensen Huang shows off his new jacket.

Do you even realize you’re blaming consumers for AMDs fuck ups?

john_The problem here is that Nvidia can simply lower pricing by $100 and make 9070 DOA even after positive reviews.

But AMD does need positive reviews. We've seen AMD price itself out of good reviews too many times, only to lower prices almost immediately after the damage is done. Who could forget the time that they lowered the price of the RX 7600 by $20 on the eve of release, just as reviewers were preparing to publish. Though the price cut was welcome, it looked like amateur hour, and making reviewers redo their work at the last minute probably didn't dispose them favorably. And we needn't discuss the goofy strategy behind RDNA3's launch, which saw AMD price its initial top-end-but-not-actually-halo-competitive cards with near-preposterous ($900+) optimism, and then sit on their much more attractive mid-range products for the better part of a year.

The amount of positive buzz that Intel earned just by releasing a competent 1440p card at $250 was eye opening even to me. It turns out that the average gamer isn't mindlessly devoted to all things Nvidia. People will even take a chance on a newcomer if the product reviews well and is priced to move. Granted, Intel's margins are razor thin, and the B580's launch was/is plagued by supply issues (and now grumbling over low-end CPU scaling), but any reasonable observer would have to judge the product a success, based on the response. Intel set out with the singular goal of getting their foot in the door, and they're on the right track. AMD is in a vastly better position than Intel; they have a decades-old headstart in the dGPU space. Yet AMD has basically zero buzz. Their abortive pricing schemes frequently give them what you might call anti-buzz. As a long time fan of their work, and of healthy competition generally, I can say that AMD's antics frequently feel like a buzzkill.

Insert @wolf 's hydra meme here--AMD with the badass engineers and the imbecilic marketing department. We get it; there's only so much AMD can do in the face of Nvidia's market dominance, but AMD should consider planning just a little bit more carefully. Instead of waiting for Nvidia to set the tone, and then pricing cards at the absolute highest point you think you can get away with (until you're forced to backtrack weeks later), try pricing the thing from day one at the lower end of what you're comfortable charging. You won't win an outright price war with a trillion-dollar company, but you might be able to create buzz and claw back some market/mind share. Now that Nvidia is distracted by the piles of AI money that big tech is throwing at them, they might even let you claw back some of the gaming market.

Of course, we don't know yet how the 9070 XT will perform. If AMD can pump out 4080-tier perf at $550, then it's a great product. It will review well, and it will sell. I might even buy one, despite my having basically zero use for a new graphics card. But if it's just the usual, basically-tied-with-the-5070-but-with-more-VRAM, then AMD needs to set a substantially lower price. We've seen this scenario play out, and it isn't pretty.

Visible NoiseIt’s obvious that the 5070 at $549 scared the piss out of AMD. They panicked, did a complete WTF and even their biggest fans can’t defend the massive fail that was CES. They used to be called Another Month Delay, seems like those times are back.

I doubt it was just the price they probably caught wind of the 5070=4090 BS in conjuction with the price and said let's wait.... Although now that we know the perfomance is at best 15-25% over the vanilla 4070 I am surprised it's still crickets over there you'd think if they had a real winner 4080 matching beast of a card that they could price at 550 they would he pounding their chest right now.

Visible NoiseDo you even realize you’re blaming consumers for AMDs fuck ups?

No. I'm blaming consumers for not seeing things for what they are, not doing proper research before buying, believing in reviews and marketing unconditionally, and for generally not giving a damn.

A colleague of mine asked me whether he should upgrade his 3080 to a 4080 not long ago. Then he asked me what graphics card I've got. I told him I've got a 6750 XT. He replied "What's that?" Is this AMD's fault, too?