Wednesday, July 27th 2016
Microsoft Out to Destroy Steam: Epic's Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney, a lead developer with Epic Games, behind the industry-leading Unreal game engine, once again raised concerns in a recent interview with print-magazine "Edge," that Microsoft is systematically killing digital distribution platform Steam, by deliberately eroding the reliability and longevity of the Win32 programming interface for PC versions of Windows, in favor of its UWP (universal Windows platform), through updates to the OS.
Microsoft, Sweeney argues, is carefully avoiding big changes to the way third-party software is distributed and used on Windows, but is definitely seen to be taking small strategic steps, "sneaky maneuvers," that could lead to Windows Store either monopolizing all third-party software distribution on the platform, or worse, making it the only way you can get third-party apps. The rising reliability issues affecting Steam, a Win32 API-based platform that distributes Win32 software, Sweeney claims are telltale signs of that dark future of the PC platform. Microsoft's biggest argument in favor of UWP is that software is inherently more secure, since it's sandboxed (covered in abstraction layers and virtualized by the OS) even further.
Below is an excerpt from the "Edge" interview.
Source:
ArsTechnica
Microsoft, Sweeney argues, is carefully avoiding big changes to the way third-party software is distributed and used on Windows, but is definitely seen to be taking small strategic steps, "sneaky maneuvers," that could lead to Windows Store either monopolizing all third-party software distribution on the platform, or worse, making it the only way you can get third-party apps. The rising reliability issues affecting Steam, a Win32 API-based platform that distributes Win32 software, Sweeney claims are telltale signs of that dark future of the PC platform. Microsoft's biggest argument in favor of UWP is that software is inherently more secure, since it's sandboxed (covered in abstraction layers and virtualized by the OS) even further.
How exactly do you think Microsoft is locking down the PC to make it a closed platform?
There are two programming interfaces for Windows and every app has to choose one of them. Every Steam app - every PC game for the past few decades - has used Win32. It's been both responsible for the vibrant software market we have now, but also for malware. Any program can be a virus. Universal Windows Platform is seen as the antidote to that. It's sandboxed - much more locked down. The risk here is that, if Microsoft convinces everyone to use UWP, then they phase out Win32 apps. If they can succeed in doing that then it's a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform. It won't be that one day they flip a switch that will break your Steam library - what they're trying to do is a series of sneaky maneauvres. They make it more and more inconvenient to use the old apps, and, simultaneously, they try to become the only source for the new ones.
Given that Steam is so widespread and popular, how could Microsoft truly win that battle, in terms of games at least?
Slowly, over the next 5 years, they will force-patch Windows 10 to make Steam progressively worse and more broken. They'll never completely break it, but will continue to break it until, in five years, people are so fed up that Steam is buggy that the Windows Store seem like an ideal alternative. That's exactly what they did to their previous competitors in other areas. Now they're doing it to Steam. It's only just starting to become visible. Microsoft might not be competent enough to succeed with their plan but they are certainly trying.
Isn't it the case that Microsoft is simply mimicking Apple's model, given how lucrative it's proven to be for software distribution?
Sure, that's the motivation. They're trying to copy Apple's model, but they realise you can't just flip a switch. It has to be achieved in small step changes.
79 Comments on Microsoft Out to Destroy Steam: Epic's Tim Sweeney
Regardless, if this story gets too big and is ultimately unfounded, Microsoft should put out an official statement denying it, then continue making Windows as reliable and efficient as they possibly can.
Not cool.
It's gone on thru 2 OS, and 2 computers for awhile, so it's definately on their end.
@SonicZap Somehow I double posted, so I'll just add a response here. I seriously doubt Sweeney is trying to hurt Microsoft. He is not the one that threw down the gauntlet. It was Valve several years ago based on what Gabe and his techies found in 8 & 8.1.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that. Great tech for gaming on so many fragmented markets and platforms, with little to no real support apart from what the gaming community gets very vocal about or just does it by itself.
Can you smell the sarcasm?
Tim Sweeney's hitting the nail on the head here, it's just a reality that MS is pushing and if you can't see it, you're pretty blind from the truth. From its inception UWP was a work-in-progress where gaming is one of the LOWEST priorities on the list, evident by the lacking support for... well anything that isn't fixed Vsynced 60 fps or 30 fps gameplay in a very regular resolution, and please don't bring SLI or multi adapter in to the mix! Gears of War was a PITA, Quantum Break is never even heard of anymore... and that's all she wrote.
UWP must fail, and it must fail soon, when it comes to being implemented on games. It probably will, but I don't mind pushing that cart a bit more and Tim is doing us all a favor by helping out.
Tell me again this is good for *anyone*? If you want to make a point, make one. Skyrim's just an example of a very popular title that doesn't get played in UWP, ever, because of UWP's inherent issues. If you want to whine about Bethsoft, do it elsewhere.
Talking about UWP vs Win32 in general, UWP is more secure and easier to develop for. However, while implementing mod support with UWP is possible, it takes more work (since mods can't just include their own EXEs and DLLs, installers and such for UWP-based games). Loss of mod support is the biggest negative thing that I see in UWP right now, the V-Sync problems and such will likely be solved eventually (of course it's hard to trust MS that they won't revert their fixes again one day).
Which is a pointless statement if you believe Sweeney, but I'm not sure they could have said it diferently.
www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/windows-8-a-catastrophe-want-linux-to-thrive-gabe-newell.169551/#post-2684190
Take the history of Microsoft and gaming that RCoon posted and I reposted above (I'll post again for those that don't like to look for stuff: www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/microsoft-continues-to-proclaim-its-love-for-pc-by-doing-nothing-at-e3.202172/),
FordGT90Concept's Thread about the state of Windows Store games: www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/windows-store-games-wont-have-vsync-sli-crossfire-fullscreen-or-modding.220368/
and add in Gabe, who for those that are too young to know, used to be at Microsoft in a big role. You have to presume he knows what to look for.
Put it all together, and it's why I say keep an open mind...and no you don't need a tin foil hat for that.
Where is borderless window option in Skyrim or at least an option with a window that uses all available space (except the taskbar if you don't have it hidden) so you don't have to use standard resolution in windows when you want ALT+TAB to actually work.
PC gaming has a lot of issues and UWP is just making thing worse, but even without UWP there is tons of issues that need to be resolved, after all PC gaming should offer more options and features than consoles.
As for people screaming lawsuit and anti-trust......GTFO of your parents house.
I would expect them to try to put steam on an app, available only through their site and potentially for a fee..
They would probably charge steam for being on the network as well.
"Slowly, over the next 5 years, they will force-patch Windows 10 to make Steam progressively worse and more broken. They'll never completely break it, but will continue to break it until, in five years, people are so fed up that Steam is buggy that the Windows Store seem like an ideal alternative. That's exactly what they did to their previous competitors in other areas."
So, Microsoft has deliberately made alternative programs worse over time via updates? But what software is he referring to.
1) Sweeney had to keep his mouth shut in favor of Microsoft for a number of years. Now that the deal with Microsoft has ended, he can finally scream to the world all the things he's held inside for too long. Especially now that the Piracy Boogeyman has been put to rest once and for all.
2) Sweeney going out hard against Microsoft for this keeps them honest in the future. If he hadn't said anything, they could do precisely what he's saying quietly and softly until one day we wake up and everything he's said that's happening has already transpired. But now if Steam starts mysteriously breaking, if problems start rising, we'll all immediately assume it's Microsoft interference. Now, even if Microsoft would have (in another world where Sweeney didn't speak out now) let Steam's issues continue to gain some net benefit, Microsoft won't do that. They won't because they won't want the negative criticism of a serious Steam downturn. They'll be blamed immediately and damningly. So now, they'll bend over backward to guarantee Steam works perfectly, if only to avoid being blamed.
He's made it so any problem with Steam reflects poorly on Microsoft and guaranteed an honest, generous Microsoft works to keep the Steam flowing whereas they might not have fought so hard to ensure such a thing previously.
It also keeps the pressure on Microsoft to stay clean with regards to how UWP is used and how hard Microsoft will push to obsolete Win32. They won't do much if they've already sworn to high heaven how they won't, at least not overtly like they might have.
If I'm honest, I think the motive is Epic's new gaming storefront. They're screaming about a doomsday scenario that MIGHT have happened if Microsoft were allowed to act on their own, but now they'll go nowhere near it and keep UWP open for years just to disprove the argument.
And that benefits Epic's store.
And why the hell would i want to sign in MS's BS shop to download Steam.
No DRM, game is yours forever.