Tuesday, October 13th 2020
NVIDIA Reportedly Moving Ampere to 7 nm TSMC in 2021
A report straight from DigiTimes claims that NVIDIA is looking to upgrade their Ampere consumer GPUs from Samsung's 8 nm to TSMC's 7 nm. According to the source, the volume of this transition should be "very large", but most likely wouldn't reflect the entirety of Ampere's consumer-facing product stack. The report claims that TSMC has become more "friendly" to NVIDIA. This could be because TSMC now has available manufacturing capacity in 7 nm due to some of its clients moving to the company's 5 nm node, or simply because TSMC hadn't believed NVIDIA to consider Samsung as a viable foundry alternative - which it now does - and has thus lowered pricing.
There are various reasons being leveraged at this, none with substantial grounds other than "reported from industry sources". NVIDIA looking for better yields is one of the appointed reasons, as is its history as a TSMC customer. NVIDIA shouldn't have too high a cost porting its manufacturing to TSMC in terms of design changes to the silicon level so as to cater to different characteristics of TSMC's 7 nm, because the company's GA100 GPU (Ampere for the non-consumer market) is already manufactured at TSMC. The next part of this post is mere (relatively informed) speculation, so take that with a saltier disposition than what came before.That NVIDIA is looking to tier its manufacturing process across high-end and the rest of its product stack (with 7 nm for high-end and 8 nm for the rest of it) would become a headache for themselves and for consumers, should NVIDIA just have two suppliers for the same graphics products. There would likely be need for some changes in the power delivery designs, there are a range of new quality assurance tests that have to be taken for the new silicon, and NVIDIA would set itself up for legal troubles should they just silently update the manufacturing process on high-end models - not only would early adopters be understandably miffed about their product having evolved over time, as there could be some claims regarding 8 nm-based models being bought after the 7 nm ones are launched. And if NVIDIA were to put a sticker on retail boxes updating the 8 nm to 7 nm, well, then any user could just decline to purchase any 8 nm cards, and only look for the 7 nm versions, which might leave NVIDIA with a real immovable supply problem.
No. If this report checks out, NVIDIA will likely launch the newly produced top-end Ampere cards (we're thinking RTX 3090, RTX 3080 and RTX 3070) in 7 nm Super versions, taking a page from their RTX 20-series book. The introduction of a higher-performing product built in 7 nm within a whole new series would protect NVIDIA from legal troubles while allowing them to publicly announce the transition. This would keep early adopters "happy" in the respect that this is a whole new product launch - users would receive that much better than by feeling that they were beta testers for NVIDIA's tango with Samsung, as reception for the 20-series Super cards shows. The usage of this new process would also allow NVIDIA to improve performance further over the original 30-series cards, due to lower leakage and higher potential operational frequencies - perhaps in addition to NVIDIA's 20-series strategy of trickling down bigger GPU designs.
Source:
DigiTimes
There are various reasons being leveraged at this, none with substantial grounds other than "reported from industry sources". NVIDIA looking for better yields is one of the appointed reasons, as is its history as a TSMC customer. NVIDIA shouldn't have too high a cost porting its manufacturing to TSMC in terms of design changes to the silicon level so as to cater to different characteristics of TSMC's 7 nm, because the company's GA100 GPU (Ampere for the non-consumer market) is already manufactured at TSMC. The next part of this post is mere (relatively informed) speculation, so take that with a saltier disposition than what came before.That NVIDIA is looking to tier its manufacturing process across high-end and the rest of its product stack (with 7 nm for high-end and 8 nm for the rest of it) would become a headache for themselves and for consumers, should NVIDIA just have two suppliers for the same graphics products. There would likely be need for some changes in the power delivery designs, there are a range of new quality assurance tests that have to be taken for the new silicon, and NVIDIA would set itself up for legal troubles should they just silently update the manufacturing process on high-end models - not only would early adopters be understandably miffed about their product having evolved over time, as there could be some claims regarding 8 nm-based models being bought after the 7 nm ones are launched. And if NVIDIA were to put a sticker on retail boxes updating the 8 nm to 7 nm, well, then any user could just decline to purchase any 8 nm cards, and only look for the 7 nm versions, which might leave NVIDIA with a real immovable supply problem.
No. If this report checks out, NVIDIA will likely launch the newly produced top-end Ampere cards (we're thinking RTX 3090, RTX 3080 and RTX 3070) in 7 nm Super versions, taking a page from their RTX 20-series book. The introduction of a higher-performing product built in 7 nm within a whole new series would protect NVIDIA from legal troubles while allowing them to publicly announce the transition. This would keep early adopters "happy" in the respect that this is a whole new product launch - users would receive that much better than by feeling that they were beta testers for NVIDIA's tango with Samsung, as reception for the 20-series Super cards shows. The usage of this new process would also allow NVIDIA to improve performance further over the original 30-series cards, due to lower leakage and higher potential operational frequencies - perhaps in addition to NVIDIA's 20-series strategy of trickling down bigger GPU designs.
120 Comments on NVIDIA Reportedly Moving Ampere to 7 nm TSMC in 2021
www.notebookcheck.net/Report-suggests-Nvidia-could-launch-improved-RTX-3000-GPUs-produced-on-TSMC-s-7-nm-node-in-2021.497489.0.html
I'm going to sit comfortably on this 1080 for another year, it just got confirmed. Stick that 10GB POS where the sun don't shine tyvm
Smoke > Fire. Always
How about Nvidia use both Samsung and TSMC to respond to the supposed high- demand?
It doesn't inspire confidence in the 3000-series on sale right now though; Just another thing to add to the 3000-series launch fiasco...
TSMC this TSMC that, this Intel screw up gave them too much hype even to the MSM Shill media, a big joke when you actually watch der8aur video of this whole nm marketing drama. And see the Apple A series processors, it's like they came from outer space in Anandtech's Spec scores and etc, but on Load the power consumption is insanely high and then on top you have the Qcomm vs Apple Application/Software performance videos and benches all over the Youtube to tell the real life performance / bang for buck / comparison etc. And to be honest, AMD only managed to beat the Skylake uArch a 5 year old design and 14nm node from 7 years ago in 2020 with Ryzen 5000.
Also Samsung is mentioning their upcoming non custom design (no M cores unlike prev Exynos, similar to the Qcomm post 820, since 820 is the only custom they did after that 810 big fiasco) Exynos 1080 is on 5nm node. So losing up a big contract like Nvidia is insanely bad to them in this pureplay fab industry, as we move to one and only one corporation doing that.
Although I've got a problem with this 8nm Samsung and now 7nm TSMC. At first, NV went with the Samsung 8nm because it is cheaper and matured and wanted to skip the 7nm TSMC because it was much more expensive. I mean that's what the news is. Now NV is going with TSMC's 7nm because? ........ Is it because NAVI is coming and the numbers that have been shown by AMD are correct so it means NV need a node change to make some more performance out of the Ampere cards? So many unknowns.
Really interesting.
Samsung's nodes are inferior, always have been, even for mobile. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be used but not for 600+ mm^2 behemoths.
But yes, they wouldn't be doing it if they would be in the red.
TSMC should be getting a lot of credit for the advances they make.
not that TSMC is afraid of samsung but they probably try to make sure samsung to not becoming a formidable competitor in the future.
Nvidia told us that they cannt keep up with order of their Ampere GPU cos of high demand not cos of Samsung XD
One of the problems with Samsung 8nm is that it was leakier and less efficient than expected - way too late to change things at that point. TSMC's 5nm could be great, it could be awful. We won't know for several months yet.