Wednesday, July 6th 2022

US Wants ASML to Stop Product Shipments to China

ASML is one of the critical semiconductors companies, as they provide tools for making actual silicon. Located in the Netherlands, they are famous for their DUV and EUV lithography tools, used to etch designs onto silicon wafers. According to the report from Bloomberg, the United States governing body is negotiating with the Dutch government to restrict the export of ASML's products to China. This came to affection following US Deputy Commerce Secretary Don Graves's visit to the Netherlands to discuss supply chain issues and meeting with ASML Chief Executive Officer Peter Wennink. While these suggested export restrictions could be beneficial to the strategic placement of US against China, it would hurt ASML's revenue as sales in China accounted for a 16% share of the company's revenue in 2021.

It is recorded that the Chinese spending spree on tools has been the greatest among every country, lasting for two years in a row. By banning ASML from exporting its lithography tools to China, the US could theoretically halt Chinese plans for achieving the government's intended semiconductor independence. The talks with the Dutch government and ASML are still a work in progress, so we are yet to see if the deal is finalized. Additionally, it is worth pointing out that the major US semiconductor manufacturing tool makers like Applied Materials and Lam Research are already banned from exporting to China.
Source: Bloomberg
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49 Comments on US Wants ASML to Stop Product Shipments to China

#26
boomheadshot8
Don"t cry if china ban apple from making phones and other occidental companies, it will be hell on earth because for some people who spend their life on the phones. It will the same for other products :kookoo:
Posted on Reply
#27
ModEl4
If ASML uses USA patents (without USA using any ASML patent) there is a ground for debate, if both ASML-USA have an agreement to cross-use patents it would seem fair (since ASML is the global leader in their field) if USA wants ASML to stop selling to China, first the number one USA player that uses ASML patents to also stop selling to China (which isn't going to happen...)
If ASML doesn't use USA patents then it's just extortion, what place has a foreign country from the other side of Atlantic meddling with the business relationships between two other sovereign nations?
Posted on Reply
#28
The red spirit
@Daven
I'm not aware of using anything from them, not even TSMC. Only GloFo and Intel.
Posted on Reply
#29
mechtech
first thing that came to mind
sorry

Posted on Reply
#30
awesomesauce
boomheadshot8Don"t cry if china ban apple from making phones and other occidental companies, it will be hell on earth because for some people who spend their life on the phones. It will the same for other products :kookoo:
They will find other place to fabric:made the product dont worry.

it already started (at higher production cost obviously) just tink of vietnam,taiwan etc..
Posted on Reply
#31
AusWolf
I other words: the US government being a bully again. What a surprise.
Posted on Reply
#32
MentalAcetylide
Countries need to support themselves and stop trying to make democratic countries communist/socialist and communist/socialist countries democratic by using trade as a weapon to bend other countries to their will. If you want to sell products in a different country, then you move to that country and that country benefits from it(jobs, boost to their economy, technology, etc.) instead of this tangled mess that we have with cheap labor, large corporations in multiple countries, etc. The products are "cheaper" now because nobody wants to pay the common laborer a decent wage and have all of the profits go to shareholders & multi-million dollar salaries for execs/CEOs.
Posted on Reply
#33
hat
Enthusiast
Sounds like something that could give China more reasons to try to take over Taiwan...
Posted on Reply
#34
cbns
US refuses to release promised $50 billion funding for new fabs in US. Every manufacturer is stopping unfinished construction of such facilities out there. I think US don't care about EU interests. And alienate such market as China would me huge mistake.
Posted on Reply
#35
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
DeathtoGnomesThis is exactly why the China-US trade wars started, China steals IP to under cut the market so dependencies focus on it.

This being a political article, my opinion is that I can see this happening under Trump, so its kind of surprising to me that this happened under the current administration.


I am not sure thats entirely the right move, I mean there has to be something of worth trading with China just to keep political talks happening, this kinda of move could anger China into desperate actions. I'd rather see tariffs apply/increase instead of trade sanctions.
Yup Tarriffs keep things fair, The problem is the US got soft on them and now everyone is bitching about the tariffs being re-implemented, well other countries had tarriffs on US goods as well so...
hatSounds like something that could give China more reasons to try to take over Taiwan...
They've already had plenty, think of Hong Kong.
Posted on Reply
#36
Zaqq
If China could produce bleeding edge fab manufacturing machines would it sell to other countries without restriction or the CCP wouldn't allow it to "protect their national interests"? The answer is pretty clear if you're not the most naive person in the world...
Posted on Reply
#37
lilhasselhoffer
It's kind of funny. Not the ha ha, more like the face palm.

China has been guilty of stealing IP. There's no doubt there. That said, they're capable of doing that largely because companies setup shop there. It's difficult to have IP that cannot be dissected in the country that is responsible for actually fabricating it. It is immensely depressing that this is where we are, but no party is free of responsibility here.

Now, the tech side. Lithographic machines are stupid expensive, and there are some pretty awesome patents pertaining as to how they actually work. As such, there's only one real supplier of the lithographic machines because the barrier to entry is just nutty. This means that most machines for lithography never die they leave one plant, and get bought out by a cheaper low end manufacturer to run for years thereafter. Assuming the EUV machines are sent primarily to the EU and USA, there'll be a break in the manufacturing process forever. The current best chips are not capable of being fabricated, then the affordable stuff can't be, and finally the dirt cheap stuff disappears. This cripples manufacturing far beyond a single generation of chips.


It's my belief that the politics here are an attempt to deal a single blow, that forces a different way of thinking going forward. It'll be interesting. Imagine a China that can't source Intel and AMD processors...but they can scale up RISC to be a viable desktop. Maybe some of those cheap Chinesium desktops will actually be pretty good? I say this, because like most copies they're often garbage until they can actually have something unique to compete on. Read: AMD and Bulldozer. Itanium and Intel. Xerox and literal photocopy machines. Everything is bad, until it isn't. I'm also looking at you M2 from Apple...a company that demonstrates in a walled garden RISC has many benefits to offer.

While I think that this move by the US is about sourcing their own machines, I also think this is an opportunity for China. If they are actually capable of doing their own work, instead of simply stealing IP as they're regularly accused of, then we might just see some innovation. That said, the short term squabbling between politicians is pretty much all about optics. I'm getting tired of the outrage from both sides...and just hope that our largest concern is going to be affordable chips in the next decade.
Posted on Reply
#38
LabRat 891
I'd be 100% supportive of this, if ASML were a US-based company. They're not, they're Dutch.
So, are we sanctioning The Netherlands now?
Posted on Reply
#39
AsRock
TPU addict
the54thvoidA wee bit over-reachy, no matter what your perspective.
Yeah but it's ok to give our oil reserves away.
Posted on Reply
#40
ModEl4
AsRockYeah but it's ok to give our oil reserves away.
Did someone tried to bully USA to give from their oil resources to the rest of the world, how is it the same with what potentially happening in ASML's case?
If USA don't want to sell it's their right of course.
What isn't right, is all these wars all over the world (middle east included) in order to bring "democracy" lol, when in reality the target is the natural resources of these countries (including oil) and after US troops left the people suffer even more than before, even USA politicians (like Tulsi Gabbard for example) start to admit this!
Posted on Reply
#41
Ahhzz
ModEl4Did someone tried to bully USA to give from their oil resources to the rest of the world, how is it the same with what potentially happening in ASML's case?
If USA don't want to sell it's their right of course.
What isn't right, is all these wars all over the world (middle east included) in order to bring "democracy" lol, when in reality the target is the natural resources of these countries (including oil) and after US troops left the people suffer even more than before, even USA politicians (like Tulsi Gabbard for example) start to admit this!
How is this POSSIBLY On-Topic??!!
THIS! This is why we can't have nice things.
Posted on Reply
#42
Easo
Not sure about this.
On one hand - this looks like reaching too far and USA does it often. Even if done for a good reason where/when does it stop?
On the other - China is NOT our friend and is becoming more belligerent, not to mention the much talked about open stealing.
Posted on Reply
#43
Prima.Vera
Just a question. Who or what gives US rights to demand or to impose such a thing?!? As far as I were aware, they are not even in Europe, EU or even on the same continent! Seriously!
Posted on Reply
#44
maxfly
Prima.VeraJust a question. Who or what gives US rights to demand or to impose such a thing?!? As far as I were aware, they are not even in Europe, EU or even on the same continent! Seriously!
I'm just guessing but I'd say money. Not saying its right by any means but that's almost always the leverage used today.
Posted on Reply
#45
95Viper
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