Saturday, January 7th 2023

AMD Ryzen 7040 Series "Phoenix Point" Mobile Processor I/O Detailed: Lacks PCIe Gen 5

by
btarunr
 Discuss (83 Comments)
The online datasheets of some of the first AMD Ryzen 7040 series "Phoenix Point" mobile processors went live, detailing the processor's I/O feature-set. We learn that AMD has decided to give PCI-Express Gen 5 a skip with this silicon, at least in its mobile avatar. The Ryzen 7040 SoC puts out a total of 20 PCI-Express Gen 4 lanes, all of which are "usable" (i.e. don't count 4 lanes toward chipset-bus). This would mean that the silicon has a full PCI-Express 4.0 x16 interface for discrete graphics, and a PCI-Express 4.0 x4 link for a CPU-attached M.2 NVMe slot; unlike the "Raphael" desktop MCM and the "Dragon Range" mobile MCM, whose client I/O dies put out a total of 28 Gen 5 lanes (24 usable, with x16 PEG + two x4 toward CPU-attached M.2 slots).

Another interesting aspect about "Phoenix Point" is its memory controllers. The SoC features a dual-channel (four sub-channel) DDR5 memory interface, besides support for LPDDR5 and LPDDR5x. DDR5-5600 and LPDDR5-7600 are the native speeds supported. What's really interesting is the maximum amount of memory supported, which stands at 256 GB—double that of "Raphael" and "Dragon Range," which top out at 128 GB. This bodes well for the eventual Socket AM5 APUs AMD will design based on the "Phoenix Point" silicon. Older Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" desktop APUs are known for superior memory overclocking capabilities to 5000X "Vermeer," with the monolithic nature of the silicon favoring latencies. Something similar could be expected from "Phoenix Point."
The iGPU of the Ryzen 7040 series in its top avatar will have the branding "Radeon 780M," an upgrade from the "Radeon 680M" of the top iGPU option available with the "Rembrandt" silicon and its RDNA2-based iGPU. The new 780M is based on the latest RDNA3 graphics architecture, and packs 12 compute units (768 stream processors), with the same dual-instruction issue rate capabilities as the desktop Radeon RX 7900 series GPUs; and matrix-math accelerators (these are besides the dedicated XDNA AI accelerator present on the "Phoenix Point" silicon). The iGPU has engine clocks as high as 2.90 GHz.

The iGPU of "Phoenix Point" is confirmed to feature AMD's latest Radiance Display Engine, with support for DisplayPort 2.1 UHBR10 and HDMI 2.1, with native support for 8K 60 Hz displays with a single cable. It also features the latest VCN media engine, with hardware-accelerated AV1 encoding up to 4K @ 240 Hz 10 bpc, and 4320p @ 175 Hz 8 bpc H.265; and hardware-accelerated decoding of nearly all standard resolutions/bit-depth/framerates of MPEG2, VC1, VP9, H.264, H.265, and AV1.
Built on the 4 nm EUV foundry node at TSMC, the "Phoenix Point" monolithic silicon has a die-area of 178 mm², and a transistor-count of 25 billion. Besides the iGPU, it features a single 8-core "Zen 4" CCX. Each of the 8 CPU cores has 1 MB of dedicated L2 cache, and share 32 MB of L3 cache.Many Thanks to TumbleGeorge for the tip!
Source: AMD

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83 Comments on AMD Ryzen 7040 Series "Phoenix Point" Mobile Processor I/O Detailed: Lacks PCIe Gen 5

#1
Space Lynx
Astronaut
I honestly want this to be my next work laptop APU... something light and portable I can travel with, but still do light indie gaming or very old gaming on. This seems like what I am looking for.

Hope I can get something decent for like $599. Doubt I get that lucky, but hey I can dream.
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#2
lexluthermiester
PCIe 5.0 just isn't that useful yet and likely will not be for a few years. Skipping it is not a big deal.
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#3
trsttte
Space LynxI honestly want this to be my next work laptop APU... something light and portable I can travel with, but still do light indie gaming or very old gaming on. This seems like what I am looking for.

Hope I can get something decent for like $599. Doubt I get that lucky, but hey I can dream.
I'd like something like that but I just can't get excited by high performance laptops since it became rare to find laptops that combined a high power CPU without a dedicated GPU as well. I'm absolutely done with dedicated mobile graphics, it just doesn't make sense to me, but unfortunately I have to bear with it if I want a stronger CPU.

Here's to hoping this is the year stronger just CPU options become popular again as unlikely as it is.
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#4
Space Lynx
Astronaut
trsttteI'd like something like that but I just can't get excited by high performance laptops since it became rare to find laptops that combined a high power CPU without a dedicated GPU as well. I'm absolutely done with dedicated mobile graphics, it just doesn't make sense to me, but unfortunately I have to bear with it if I want a stronger CPU.

Here's to hoping this is the year stronger just CPU options become popular again as unlikely as it is.
These models probably won't have dedicated gpu's, they are APU's. I am confused by what you are saying, AMD has other laptop CPU's that are coming that are meant to be combined with dedicated gpu's, and those will have integrated graphics as well, but not to the extent of this APU.

This APU is actually exactly what you are looking for if I am reading you correctly.

I personally am going to keep my eye out for it, hopefully it comes out in next couple months. Hopefully in a Dell laptop, cause my company gives me discount through Dell.
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#5
prtskg
Space LynxThese models probably won't have dedicated gpu's, they are APU's. I am confused by what you are saying, AMD has other laptop CPU's that are coming that are meant to be combined with dedicated gpu's, and those will have integrated graphics as well, but not to the extent of this APU.

This APU is actually exactly what you are looking for if I am reading you correctly.

I personally am going to keep my eye out for it, hopefully it comes out in next couple months. Hopefully in a Dell laptop, cause my company gives me discount through Dell.
In my area laptops with latest AMD apus always come with discrete GPUs for some reason. Intel doesn't have this problem. They get very nice laptop options. Dunno whose fault it is but latest AMD laptop options aren't that great.
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#6
Space Lynx
Astronaut
prtskgIn my area laptops with latest AMD apus always come with discrete GPUs for some reason. Intel doesn't have this problem. They get very nice laptop options. Dunno whose fault it is but latest AMD laptop options aren't that great.
Hmm, I see APU's from Dell and HP all the time with no dedicated graphics. Just go to their official websites.
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#7
ymdhis
768 RDNA3 cores at 2.9GHz, I want that in a desktop APU so much. Might actually consider making a generational jump from my 5600G. On paper, it should be faster than any Polaris card that exists, except for situations where the memory speed becomes the bottleneck.
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#8
Garrus
Space LynxHmm, I see APU's from Dell and HP all the time with no dedicated graphics. Just go to their official websites.
People just wanted Ryzen 6800H laptops without discrete GPUs. They basically didn't exist. You're wrong, the other guy is absolutely right. Hopefully the silicon shortage means we'll actually see some laptops this time at lower prices with this CPU.

There is one model at Bestbuy. The $1000 Asus VivoBook S 14X OLED.
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#9
Wirko
btarunrThe Ryzen 7040 SoC puts out a total of 20 PCI-Express Gen 4 lanes, all of which are "usable" (i.e. don't count 4 lanes toward chipset-bus).
Do Ryzen 5000 and 6000 notebooks even have a chipset?
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#10
Chrispy_
trsttteI'd like something like that but I just can't get excited by high performance laptops since it became rare to find laptops that combined a high power CPU without a dedicated GPU as well. I'm absolutely done with dedicated mobile graphics, it just doesn't make sense to me, but unfortunately I have to bear with it if I want a stronger CPU.

Here's to hoping this is the year stronger just CPU options become popular again as unlikely as it is.
This was the biggest disappointment of the 6000-series Rembrandt APUs.

The 6800U was a great performer but the typical 25W TDP throttled away a lot of its potential. The same silicon given a 45W TDP as the 6800H was never spotted outside of chungus gaming laptops with stupid RGBLED and childish robot slashes/angles/vajazzle adorning their cheap plastic shells.

The "default" (non U-series) Intel consumer laptop without dGPU has been 35-47W going back at least as far as Skylake. Across that many years, manufacturers and model variants, there must easily be 10,000 different models sold with 35W+ TDPs and no dGPU. Why is it so hard for AMD to do that? The whole point of an APU is that they have the best IGP, so that you can get away without needing a hungry dGPU. They've utterly failed to capitalise on that USP.
Space LynxThese models probably won't have dedicated gpu's, they are APU's. I am confused by what you are saying, AMD has other laptop CPU's that are coming that are meant to be combined with dedicated gpu's, and those will have integrated graphics as well, but not to the extent of this APU.

This APU is actually exactly what you are looking for if I am reading you correctly.
No, these APUs, 'codename Phoenix' are going to be the U-series, 7800U etc. They will be cut-down silicon with a maximum of 8 cores and low cTDPs of likely 15~28W again.

Both @trsttte and I are talking about the H-series, 'codename Dragon Range' which will be 35W+ 16-core APUs that will likely come with the default, non-gaming RDNA2 IGP that Zen4 desktop CPUs have. They're definitely not 3D powerhouses, but that basic 2CU RDNA2 IGP is plenty for most non-gaming applications and even works for most CAD software. As a mobile editing rig or workstation, 16 cores in a thin-and-light is amazing, and AMD simply haven't had any design wins for a performance-focused thin-and-light to date.
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#11
Wirko
Chrispy_No, these APUs, 'codename Phoenix' are going to be the U-series, 7800U etc. They will be cut-down silicon with a maximum of 8 cores and low cTDPs of likely 15~28W again.

Both @trsttte and I are talking about the H-series, 'codename Dragon Range' which will be 35W+ 16-core APUs that will likely come with the default, non-gaming RDNA2 IGP that Zen4 desktop CPUs have.
See the last slide above, Phoenix Point HS will be 35-45W. U hasn't been announced yet, could even be a smaller chip. Dragon Range HX is above that, at 45-75+W.
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#12
neblogai
WirkoSee the last slide above, Phoenix Point HS will be 35-45W. U hasn't been announced yet, could even be a smaller chip. Dragon Range HX is above that, at 45-75+W.
U-series Phoenix have not been announced yet, but they are mentioned (as '15W TDP' variants) in the endnotes of these latest slides. And there should be another, probably smaller Phoenix2 variant too- it is not just rumored, but is also mentioned in Lenovo's Ideapad 5 Pro slides.
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#13
prtskg
Space LynxHmm, I see APU's from Dell and HP all the time with no dedicated graphics. Just go to their official websites.
I didn't find Ryzen 6000 series anywhere without discrete GPU in my çountry. But Asus had a good Ryzen 5800 option, Vivobook 16x M1603. I want this kind of option with 6000 series.
Posted on Reply
#14
SL2
Chrispy_The 6800U was a great performer but the typical 25W TDP throttled away a lot of its potential. The same silicon given a 45W TDP as the 6800H was never spotted outside of chungus gaming laptops with stupid RGBLED and childish robot slashes/angles/vajazzle adorning their cheap plastic shells.
They're hard to find, but it's not impossible. It depends on where you live, obviously.

geizhals.eu/?cat=nb&xf=14265_H~14265_HS~14265_HX~18366_16+-+Rembrandt~19538_16+-+Zen+3++(ab+2022)&asuch=&bpmin=&bpmax=&v=e&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&plz=&dist=&mail=&sort=p&bl1_id=30

I saw at least one 6600HS model at Lenovo's US site.

It is however impossible to find a Rembrandt laptop under €900 €899. Given that some models still are listed as "coming soon", things must be going really slow.
I have no idea what TSMC's 6 nm chips are used for, except for one Radeon model. Maybe Raphael IO chips?
Posted on Reply
#15
Daven
prtskgI didn't find Ryzen 6000 series anywhere without discrete GPU in my çountry. But Asus had a good Ryzen 5800 option, Vivobook 16x M1603. I want this kind of option with 6000 series.
The reason for the lack of AMD configuration choices is that the vast majority of laptop purchases come with Intel and/or Nvidia. OEMs cannot risk too many AMD designs without volume sales to back them up. Until customers stop reflexively buying Intel and Nvidia even when AMD is just as good, expect fewer choices. Its that simple.
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#16
SL2
DavenThe reason for the lack of AMD configuration choices is that the vast majority of laptop purchases come with Intel and/or Nvidia. OEMs cannot risk too many AMD designs without volume sales to back them up.
I doubt that, because ths situation was nowhere as bad when Cezanne launched. I just don't think AMD could push Rembrandt as much as they wanted after launch due to chip shortage.
That's why you can find Ryzen 6000 models listed as "coming soon" right now.
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#17
Daven
MatsI doubt that, because ths situation was nowhere as bad when Cezanne launched. I just don't think AMD could push Rembrandt as much as they wanted after launch due to chip shortage.
That's why you can find Ryzen 6000 models listed as "coming soon" right now.
Its economics 101: supply and demand. AMD also doesn’t have the manufacturing capacity access as Intel which also has an effect regardless of the supply/demand curves.
Posted on Reply
#18
SL2
DavenIts economics 101: supply and demand. AMD also doesn’t have the manufacturing capacity access as Intel which also has an effect regardless of the supply/demand curves.
So you're saying that there was a lower demand for Rembrandt compared to Cezanne? I find that hard to believe.

Chip shortage affected everyone, not just TSMC.
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#19
AnarchoPrimitiv
DavenThe reason for the lack of AMD configuration choices is that the vast majority of laptop purchases come with Intel and/or Nvidia. OEMs cannot risk too many AMD designs without volume sales to back them up. Until customers stop reflexively buying Intel and Nvidia even when AMD is just as good, expect fewer choices. Its that simple.
And because of that lack of AMD options, people don't buy them....it's a chicken and egg problem
Posted on Reply
#20
neblogai
MatsI have no idea what TSMC's 6 nm chips are used for, except for one Radeon model. Maybe Raphael IO chips?
I agree, it seems AMD simply did not produce much of Rembrandt. I think there may have been two reasons for that: enough, and cheap enough DDR5/LPDDR5 would have to be secured to push U-series Rembrandt for mainstream, but it was still too expensive in 2022; and- Sony ate up that N6 for PS5 refresh during summer.
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#21
john_
Hope Zen 4 7000 series sees better adoption than 6000 series. We where drooling at those 12 RDNA2 CUs one year ago, but what is everywhere is 5000 series APUs. Even in latest models we see many 5000 series, Zen 3 + Vega, options masquerade as 7000 series.
I wonder what went wrong with 6000?
Hope AMD pushes harder in laptops now that the discrete GPU market is lost for them.
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#22
ModEl4
So it has the same L3 as desktop 7700X?
I wonder what the performance & price delta will be between them.
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#23
aQi
Waiting for the performance bench on the igpu on this with some ray tracing. Though i wish they added just x4 lanes for gen5 nvme.
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#24
neblogai
john_Hope AMD pushes harder in laptops now that the discrete GPU market is lost for them.
That is a funny thing to say. The prices that Nvidia are setting, allow AMD to sell their GPUs very profitably too. They'd just need to produce them, instead of baking even more profitable products (CPUs).
Posted on Reply
#25
john_
neblogaiThat is a funny thing to say. The prices that Nvidia are setting, allow AMD to sell their GPUs very profitably too. They'd just need to produce them, instead of baking even more profitable products (CPUs).
It's not meant to be funny, it's just facts when even after discounting their whole 6000 series cards the only thing they get is a huge drop to 8% of market share.

So, I hope this graph is an indication of new AMD laptops in the works from OEMs and not just a glitch, which is normal at the first weeks of every new quarter in PassMark's market share graphs


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