trparkyI still want to know what an acceptable SOC voltage is and if utilities like HWInfo and Ryzen Master is reporting correct values. I keep hearing so much misinformation.

Because guys talking about are those who want O/C...

i used DOCP II right now on 1413 BIOS, it's 1.25 for SOC, can't remember what it was with BIOS 1406 !!

Perhaps RAM brand matters, because i read each time those having problems had GSkill if i remember never read about other sticks.

Klemcbecause i read each time those having problems had GSkill if i remember never read about other sticks.

And I've got GSkill memory in my system due to how many YouTubers have recommended them including Hardware Unboxed.

trparkyAnd I've got GSkill memory in my system due to how many YouTubers have recommended them including Hardware Unboxed.

Do you remember SOC when DOCP enabled with older BIOS ?

KlemcDo you remember SOC when DOCP enabled with older BIOS ?

I never paid much attention to it back then, then again it wasn't something that I worried about back then.

I'm just trying not to worry since my CPU VDDCR_SOC Voltage (SVI3 TFN) is 1.25v and my CPU VCORE SoC is 1.188v. Both SoC voltages (I still don't know which one to be looking at) are below 1.3v which is what AMD says is good. Yeah. I'm trying to not worry here.

I wanna buy 64 GB (2x32GB) G.SKILL - Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5 (6000mhz, CL30-40-40-96) ----> F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5NR but it uses 1.40V! What does that mean relative to the current situation with EXPO, SoC and 1,30v being safe only or whatever?
If I update my BIOS, does it mean it won't let my RAM to use more then 1.30v? If so, what does that mean about my RAM needing 1.40v? Can it operate normally with less then 1.40v...?
This is all so confusing to me, I don't really understand any of this (I'm new relative to these stuff :/)....

Thanks for a quick reply man but I don't really understand anything you just showed me. I was just planning on buying EXPO kit, updating BIOS to latest version and then enabling EXPO and now this situation happened....
So what are you trying to tell me with your pictures? That your RAM uses 1.335V, or am I wrong?
And did you experience any issues if your RAM is now using less then 1.4V? Do you think you might experience them...?
What does 1.4V on G-SKILL site even mean? That this RAM needs at least 1.4V to operate normally, or what?
And is this RAM's 1.4V "SoC voltage" or "Memory voltage"...?
I don't really get any of this just yet :cry:

Dangerous_RideSo what are you trying to tell me with your pictures? That your RAM uses 1.335V, or am I wrong?

Correct.

Dangerous_RideAnd did you experience any issues if your RAM is now using less then 1.4V? Do you think you might experience them...?

Uh... no. No issues at all.

trparkyCorrect.

Uh... no. No issues at all.

That's really great to hear and I hope it will stay that way :)
Btw what does 1.4V on G-SKILL site even mean? That this RAM should use at least 1.4V to operate normally, or what?
And is this RAM's 1.4V "SoC voltage" or "Memory voltage"...?
Can you change your 1.335V or that option is grayed out for you in the settings?

Dangerous_RideThat's really great to hear and I hope it will stay that way :)
Btw what does 1.4V on G-SKILL site even mean? That this RAM should use at least 1.4V to operate normally, or what?
And is this RAM's 1.4V "SoC voltage" or "Memory voltage"...?
Can you change your 1.335V or that option is grayed out for you in the settings?

I just stuck the stuff into my RAM slots and away I went. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Dangerous_RideThat's really great to hear and I hope it will stay that way :)
Btw what does 1.4V on G-SKILL site even mean? That this RAM should use at least 1.4V to operate normally, or what?
And is this RAM's 1.4V "SoC voltage" or "Memory voltage"...?
Can you change your 1.335V or that option is grayed out for you in the settings?

It's RAM, the 1.3 is for the CPU voltage (SOC).

KlemcIt's RAM, the 1.3 is for the CPU voltage (SOC).

Okay, so what are you trying to say? That everyone with 1.4V RAM sticks can manually set/leave SoC at 1.3V and change RAM (memory voltage I guess) to 1.4V and it should all be fine then, or what?

I say the 1.4 is the RAM voltage, and the 1.3 limit applies to CPU.

KlemcI say the 1.4 is the RAM voltage, and the 1.3 limit applies to CPU.

Ok, but can people set 1.3 for CPU and 1.4 for RAM? Is that possible? And is it safe to set it that way?

HD64GEven so, it is very easy to change the SOCV from auto to manual and allow it to reach up to 1,2V avoiding any problem. The root cause is found and anyone can prevent the damage now.

It more like a workaround than a fix, because the real problem is that the CPU could reach above 200 degree temp to burn\melt\band\damage the motherboard and the CPU itself without any protection kick in.
You fix maybe one incident, but other still can happen and lead to the same unpleasant results.

trparkyOk, assuming that HWInfo and Ryzen Master is reporting correctly, my SOC voltage when EXPO is enabled is 1.25 volts. I’d like it to be lower though.

My board is really weird with that. When I first enable EXPO, it gives me VDIMM = VSoC = 1.35 V. But then, I manually set it to 1.1 V, and then back to Auto, which gives me 1.2 V. It's running fine with that.

Dirt ChipIt more like a workaround than a fix, because the real problem is that the CPU could reach above 200 degree temp to burn\melt\band\damage the motherboard and the CPU itself without any protection kick in.
You fix maybe one incident, but other still can happen and lead to the same unpleasant results.

How? There is a 95 °C limit.

Dirt ChipIt more like a workaround than a fix, because the real problem is that the CPU could reach above 200 degree temp to burn\melt\band\damage the motherboard and the CPU itself without any protection kick in.
You fix maybe one incident, but other still can happen and lead to the same unpleasant results.

Excuse me but that soc voltage peaks are responsible for frying the sensors and the security measures don't work anymore. That in turn causes the ultra high temps which burn the CPU and the socket. The root cause is always the thing to fix that prevents the chain of disaster.

But before burning, CPU took a bad voltage and received heat... perhaps damaging it, certainly infact.

That means they sold hardware not able to work at factory defaults settings.

Refurbish everybody.

AusWolfMy board is really weird with that. When I first enable EXPO, it gives me VDIMM = VSoC = 1.35 V. But then, I manually set it to 1.1 V, and then back to Auto, which gives me 1.2 V. It's running fine with that.


How? There is a 95 °C limit.

Exactly, the CPU shouldn't be able to reach this temp, but it turned out that it can (on those rare cases). What else explain such deformation of the CPU itself and the mobo socket?

HD64GExcuse me but that soc voltage peaks are responsible for frying the sensors and the security measures don't work anymore. That in turn causes the ultra high temps which burn the CPU and the socket. The root cause is always the thing to fix that prevents the chain of disaster.

To me it sounds like a very unlikely behavior. We are talking on common settings that many play with (EXPO). It's not any kind of aggressive OC attempt. If the safety measures are damaged by the process they need to prevent, it's a bad design. As I understand, the cases presented happened under quite normal conditions that any user applying the EXPO advertised memory profile can do easley.

Specific in this case I suppose voltage cap will be enough, but those possibly non-fail-safe sensors may be compromised in others scenario.
Possibly you can address their sup optimal behavior via bios, a thing that AMD should incorporate and set guidelines for imo and not level to each vendor decision.

Imo under no circumstances, except hard mod and bios rewritten, should the CPU Physically damage itself and take the mobo with it.

But as those cases are rare, you can leave it like that and let RMA address any case and be done with it.

95°C is not even real TJMax... 105°C is... So I guess temperatures are getting even beyond 105°C if soc voltage peaks fry/damage the sensors...
Techpowerup says: "Once you enable overclocking mode, the 95°C temperature target gets disabled and the CPU may run at up to 105°C, and only above that it will turn off automatically to protect itself—this is the real TJMax."
Also: "AMD themselves guarantee "the processor is designed to run at 95°C - 24/7 without risk of damage or deterioration." Due to the way Zen 4 processors are designed to run, they will never exceed those 95°C at stock. Instead of overheating or shutting down, the CPU will regulate its clock speeds automagically to stay as close as possible to 95°C."
Source: www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-cooling-requirements-thermal-throttling/

Dangerous_Ride95°C is not even real TJMax... 105°C is... So I guess temperatures are getting even beyond 105°C after soc voltage peaks fry/damage the sensors...
Techpowerup says: "Once you enable overclocking mode, the 95°C temperature target gets disabled and the CPU may run at up to 105°C, and only above that it will turn off automatically to protect itself—this is the real TJMax."
Source: www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-cooling-requirements-thermal-throttling/

Fun fact, It was shown by der8aure that different (possibly all non x3d at least) ZEN4 sku reach 115c before shutting down. You just remove the CPU cooler under load and watch temp pass 105c with ease all under default settings and menual setting 95 temp limit. Happend on different mobos, both x and non-x CPU`s (x3d not tested here).
btw, Intel CPU`s also reach 115 if menually allowed in bios.

Dirt ChipFun fact, It was shown by der8aure that different (possibly all non x3d at least) ZEN4 sku reach 115c before shutting down. You just remove the CPU cooler under load and watch temp pass 105c with ease all under default settings and menual setting 95 temp limit. Happend on different mobos, both x and non-x CPU`s (x3d not tested here).
btw, Intel CPU`s also reach 115 if menually allowed in bios.

Interesting...
I knew about Intel reaching 115°C but didn't know AMD also could... so thanks for sharing this little fun fact with us :D

Apparently, Steve of Gamer’s Nexus has a video coming soon that will have in-depth analysis showing the cause of the issue beyond just “it’s SOC voltage”.

trparkyApparently, Steve of Gamer’s Nexus has a video coming soon that will have in-depth analysis showing the cause of the issue beyond just “it’s SOC voltage”.

Zubasa

Damn, I was expecting a complicated explanation, but not absolutely all the issues surfacing at once.

Steve's comment about AM5 being a mess really sums up everything pretty well. Everybody is lazy, everybody is incompetent. AGESA is forever a cursed bastard child and AMD will never honestly and transparently communicate with either its users or board vendors, board vendors won't ever listen to user feedback or do better than half-functional BIOSes that don't implement AGESA properly and don't know what OCP and OTP are.........lol @ Asus releasing a first wave of "fixed" BIOSes that didn't fix anything, still kinda funny that Asus chose to adopt Gigabyte's overvolting reputation

That worse silicon quality chips are more likely/sooner to experience damage is in line with any core or IO degradation claims from any past Ryzen generation. The golden samples are never able to replicate early production degradation concerns, and reports would gradually fade as yields improved further into the production run as everyone collectively forgot about it.

Most interesting part of this is the block diagram that shows VDDCR_GFX deriving from Vcore. Skatterbencher was wrong about the topology then (but understandably so). VDDCR_GFX have always taken from VSOC so this not only explains the link of both CCD and IOD exploding, but is a first for AMD. But having iGPU on IO die is also a first, so maybe future APUs will still stick with SOC (which is not preferable).

Looking forward to the video detailing all the platform bugs, anything to give AMD and the board partners a fresh motivational kick in the rear