JohHHere's how it goes for me. I can't move my taskbar where I want it anymore, the new default mail application is worse than their own unmaintained application from 2012, they continually add useless bloat to the operating system like Teams, web content in the task bar. Windows 7 search is still better. The context menu requires more clicks to access commonly used applications e.g. 7zip.
Then after an update they reinstall all sorts of ads for applications no one uses because some spyware company (Meta, etc) paid Microsoft to put it there. At least I can disable seeing the out-of-box experience multiple times a year.

It's getting worse with time which is unfortunate because the core of Windows - the hardware and backward compatibility - hasn't been ruined but the idiotic Bing managers running the user experience is ruining Windows as a whole.

I'd say it's more like an Apple (after)effect, they're tried to combine a lot of touch UI/mobile apps into the desktop system ~ kinda like what the iPad OS is doing & what Mac OS is shifting towards IMO so in that sense the transition to this hybrid OS is jarring. The core hasn't really changed much in 10 years post win8 but removing key UI/apps or updating them with touch version is bad overall. They should've developed something different dedicated towards portables but it's also true that since they don't own the hardware in that space or have a mobile OS it would be a hard sell as a standalone system/alternatives to say an iPad. I see a lot of properly sticking to Windows 2in1 because they have a full "desktop OS" on that device.

john_But what I was saying for many many many MANY years is that Linux needs to become just that. LINUX. A simple alternative to Windows. ONE DISTRO. Not in general, but just EVERYONE to push that ONE DISTRO to the public and every other distro to be there, for everyone getting familiar with Linux and thinking to try something more customized to it's needs, go the next step.

Do you want to know why that's not happened? Because of the incessant need for "choice" for sake of "choice" in the Linux community. To be perfectly honest, I don't need choice... I want the damn thing to work. I want to be able to sit down and just have my system work. I don't need more choice than I have kitchen knives.

they will have 100% market share in a 1000 years. Follow the math

trparkyIf I had to switch to a Linux-style OS, I'd buy a damn Mac and run MacOS.

Indeed. I was thinking to add that also to my post. That the only alternative OS that have seen meaningful gains those last 20 years is Apple's macOS. If Microsoft messes up in the future, many will stay with the last working for them version of Windows for as long as they can, others with go with a Mac, not even think about checking Linux.

trparkyIf I had to switch to a Linux-style OS, I'd buy a damn Mac and run MacOS.

I'd probably throw the damn thing in a swamp o_O

Jokes aside Linux will not have all the applications or games that I want, not that I'd need them all the time but just the availability on Windows is a big plus for the vast majority of us!

R0H1TI'd probably throw the damn thing in a swamp o_O

Why? If you ask me, MacOS is the perfect blend of a Linux-style core OS with the commercial support for software and hardware that most people expect computers to have all while having access to the powerful command line.

trparkyDo you want to know why that's not happened? Because of the incessant need for "choice" for sake of "choice" in the Linux community. To be perfectly honest, I don't need choice... I want the damn thing to work. I want to be able to sit down and just have my system work. I don't need more choice than I have kitchen knives.

Me too. Those first years it was nice to play with Redhat and SuSe, but latter it became a problem. And it also became a problem for hardware manufacturers. You had the community attacking manufacturer X for not having drivers for Y device, manufacturer was making drivers for distros 1 and 2, everyone else was attacking X manufacturer with even more hate and rage for not providing an easy installation driver for device Y that works also on other distros. So manufacturers weren't touching Linux even with a 10 meter pole.

That's why I am saying ONE DISTRO pushed to the public, all other distros STILL AVAILABLE for anyone wanting to dive a little deeper in Linux.

R0H1TJokes aside Linux will not have all the applications or games that I want, not that I'd need them all the time but just the availability on Windows is a big plus for the vast majority of us!

MacOS would have all that support sooner than Linux would. I guarantee it.

You have to give credit to Microsoft, they really took the "evil corporation spying on customers and treating them as cattle" ethic to the next level in recent years. I often take my mother as a benchmark of software usability, she's old but not stupid - a few ticks above a typical consumer who is both stupid and ignorant. She uses Mint MATE and is perfectly happy with it, only occasionally needing my help which I can easily provide through SSH/VNC. A few years ago it was not possible, everything worked well but from time to time something nuclear would happen, like an update taking out GRUB. She lives two or three countries from me so immediate support is not really a viable option, and she's strictly a user, solving software problems is definitely not within her reach. She has a secondary machine running Windows 10, but used only for tax reasons. The tax office uses mandatory Windows software and only accepts Microsoft Office files, which tells you how the Inadequateimpotent corporation penetrated the market.
So yeah, in userland Linux moves at a speed of an old glacier, but it does move.

john_That's why I am saying ONE DISTRO pushed to the public, all other distros STILL AVAILABLE for anyone wanting to dive a little deeper in Linux.

That's essentially what MacOS is today.

R0H1TI'd say it's more like an Apple (after)effect, they're tried to combine a lot of touch UI/mobile apps into the desktop system ~ kinda like what the iPad OS is doing & what Mac OS is shifting towards IMO so in that sense the transition to this hybrid OS is jarring. The core hasn't really changed much in 10 years post win8 but removing key UI/apps or updating them with touch version is bad overall. They should've developed something different dedicated towards portables but it's also true that since they don't own the hardware in that space or have a mobile OS it would be a hard sell as a standalone system/alternatives to say an iPad. I see a lot of properly sticking to Windows 2in1 because they have a full "desktop OS" on that device.

I've used both MacOS and Windows daily for a decade and Apple has committed far fewer of these sins in MacOS. The only major iOS garbage I have had the misfortune of noticing started last year where Apple ruined the settings application for no reason other than boredom amongst their UX designers causing them to rewrite it in Swift and concomitantly making everything less rational. The default Mail application is no Outlook but at least it is not worse than what they had a decade ago like Windows.

They have so far kept MacOS focused for real human use not a Bing distribution service. It doesn't update whenever it wants to, it actually listens to you. You can easily disable web content in Spotlight and it still get good results quickly like Windows 7 search. Spotlight find documents on my PC's network share faster than my PC itself and it will instantly preview Word/Excel documents. Which is amazing because those are Microsoft products and formats. And despite Apple UX team having rigid opinions, I can move the dock. They never removed that user preference.

It just annoys me to no end that Windows is deliberately making its user experience worse than it was while Apple isn't.

trparkyThat's essentially what MacOS is today.

And Android in a way. And SteamOS considering you get that with Steam Deck and you just use it. Nothing to fix, nothing to optimize.

TahagomizerYou have to give credit to Microsoft, they really took the "evil corporation spying on customers and treating them as cattle" ethic to the next level in recent years.

Uh... excuse me? Windows doesn't hold a damn candle to the spying capabilities of Android. Android isn't so much as an operating system but more like an advertising platform upon which apps can be run but its main purpose is to be put on a device that everyone carries with them in every aspect of their lives so as to gather as much private data as possible to be sold to the highest bidder.

Yet, nobody batts a damn eye at Android.

Everyone rants about Windows, but nobody says a damn thing about Android and how it's basically a purpose-built spy device made by the biggest advertising company on the planet.

trparkyUh... excuse me? Windows doesn't hold a damn candle to the spying capabilities of Android. Android isn't so much as an operating system but more like an advertising platform upon which apps can be run but its main purpose is to be put on a device that everyone carries with them in every aspect of their lives so as to gather as much private data as possible to be sold to the highest bidder.

Yet, nobody batts a damn eye at Android.

Nobody bats an eye at Android here because
1) this subject is about Desktop Linux which naturally leads to why it may be becoming more popular. I doubt it's android users switching to gnu/linux desktop operating systems.
2) you have another good option: iOS (well I've heard it's good enough I've never used it myself).
And I'd probably complain if I used my phone for office work. But I don't...

Any mobile OS is just as bad, with iOS or iPad OS you're giving away your info to the goodfellas guys at Apple. It's like choosing between lead or Arsenic ~ take your pick!

JohHIt just annoys me to no end that Windows is deliberately making its user experience worse than it was while Apple isn't.

Well I'm guesstimating Apple's going to metastasize the Mac OS into whatever win11 is today, seeing as how iPad's nearly a full fledged notebook these days. I'm not the only one of course there's others who predict this might be their eventual course of action, there's a chance Apple may never go down that road but it's probably 50/50 right now. I'm not necessarily talking about the UI but a desktop OS also geared towards touchscreens & especially (mobile/tablet)apps.

JohH2) you have another good option: iOS (well I've heard it's good enough I've never used it myself).

It's better than Android in nearly every way possible. I've been running iOS for years, there's no way on God's green Earth that I'd run Android; not a damn chance.

R0H1TAny mobile OS is just as bad, with iOS or iPad OS you're giving away your info to the goodfellas guys at Apple. It's like choosing between lead or Arsenic ~ take your pick!

At least with Apple, you have a semblance of privacy and control over your private data. Android? Not so much.

R0H1TWell I'm guesstimating Apple's going to metastasize the Mac OS into whatever win11 is today, seeing as how iPad's nearly a full fledged notebook these days. I'm not the only one of course there's others who predict this might be their eventual course of action, there's a chance Apple may never go down that road but it's probably 50/50 right now. I'm not necessarily talking about the UI but a desktop OS also geared towards touchscreens & especially (mobile/tablet)apps.

True, but at least with Apple they're doing it intelligently. Microsoft? Not so much. Does anyone remember the abomination that is Windows 8?

Whoever thought that the Start Menu should have been a full screen thing even on the desktop was an absolute idiot. OK... phone, yes. But not a desktop. What a jarring experience.

TheinsanegamerNCinnamon, MATE, Plasma? All those are intuitive for end users.

Games do widely work on Linux now. Proton compatibility covers 2/3rds of steams library.

Not as intuitive as windows or Android, or even close to it.

2/3 isn't enough we need 100%.

I think it's coming, just a matter of time before Windows goes the way of the dinosaur and is outcompeted by a free and much less rubbish alternative!

My change was proceeded just a few days in the past. Windows had a hell of BSOD's and was not able to boot from my SSD (bootmedium not mountable). I was P.O. and installed Mint Cinnamon on the same rig. Everything runs fine.All needed Apps are available. I have to work over my Excel sheets (Macro Programs) to get everything running in LibreCalc. My Emails (Outlook PST Files) were imported into Evolution like a charm directly inside evolution without tools. The only thing i miss is Microsoft Sudoku. There one can mark the different cells.

Windows doesn't normally BSOD unless something really bad happens. I can't even remember the last time that I even saw a BSOD, that's how long I've not seen one.

john_Me too. Those first years it was nice to play with Redhat and SuSe, but latter it became a problem. And it also became a problem for hardware manufacturers. You had the community attacking manufacturer X for not having drivers for Y device, manufacturer was making drivers for distros 1 and 2, everyone else was attacking X manufacturer with even more hate and rage for not providing an easy installation driver for device Y that works also on other distros. So manufacturers weren't touching Linux even with a 10 meter pole.

That's why I am saying ONE DISTRO pushed to the public, all other distros STILL AVAILABLE for anyone wanting to dive a little deeper in Linux.

The open source community generally doesn't want manufacturers to provide drivers for random distributions on their website. Drivers should be in the official kernel.

Also, the kernel changes the driver interface so often that even with a single distribution as target you would sit there with non-working drivers very often.

Windows suffered badly from crappy vendor-provided drivers in the past.

unwind-protectDrivers should be in the official kernel.

Personally speaking, if I were a hardware company that wants to make money, there's no way in hell that I'd put my drivers in the kernel. Why? So others, including my competitors, can find out what's in my secret sauce? Nope.

unwind-protectAlso, the kernel changes the driver interface so often that even with a single distribution as target you would sit there with non-working drivers very often.

Then don't change things, or if you do, provide a compatibility layer so that binary-only blob drivers can interface with the kernel. They shouldn't be changing things for the sake of changing things. And no, if I were a hardware company there's no way I'd want some shmuck from BFE messing with my code.

Open source is nice and all but a part of me says that open source is incompatible with a Capitalist economy.

I never had the energy to try Linux, probably time I did.

I really like how the linux works on my PC, it feels really smooth and I feel like i have control over the system.

Maybe it is placebo, but my Geekbench6 score is better in linux, idk

R0H1TMaybe they'll get the next 3% within our lifetimes, or maybe not :ohwell:

The whole topic is a bit more nuanced. Over a billion devices run the Linux kernel. Desktop Linux, or the distros, are 3%, but Linux kernel has already smashed the rest in terms of total volume. Hell, even MS bakes it into Windows now.

On a desktop PC, Linux desktop has become pretty easy to get going and maintain. It's tougher on laptops, where each OEM has some subtle implementation of power management that can cause more headaches. Even then, Ubuntu devs tend to focus their efforts there to make it more seamless. Throw in Steam and Proton, and it's rather easy to game on Linux now too. The only risk is certain lazy game developers that would rather ban you thinking you're using cheats than to contact Valve for support to add it in (ahem, Bungie).

trparkyWindows doesn't normally BSOD unless something really bad happens. I can't even remember the last time that I even saw a BSOD, that's how long I've not seen one.

I haven't seen that much BlueScreens since years. When i coded my Amiga in Assembler sometimes i got that much Guru Meditation Messages. My systems runs fine and smooth when using Linux. I tested the Drives (SSD) for Errors with GPartEd and Linux Mint Live. No errors. I wrote new Bootblocks etc. Nothing was better. booting with a Windows-10-USBStick diskpart told me that the drive is "raw". But it was fully accessible by Linux. This were two weeks full of Horror. I use to use my rig for moneymaking. 3D work, developing, Excel,... and i don't use to play on it. Except that special MS Sudoku. That is really addictive. Since i changed to linux the system boots still fine.

But nevertheless i think that the mainboard is broken a bit. I don't know where from. Just a feeling. Especially since my system doesn't recognize my second (Backup-Data) drive. a PCIe 3.0 Intel 660P SSD anymore. But i'm already building my new rig. It should be finished within this year.